Considering the military route.

[Draginass]

IMHO, you should not join the military unless you want to be an officer first and a pilot second. Wanting to fly is great, but not when you view it only as a personal stepping stone. I knew a few pilots like that in the military and generally, I had little respect for them. Also, if you make it known in pilot training that you're only "here for the beer" that won't make things any easier.

Believe me, any flying you do in the military will be 20 times more interesting and challenging than flying an airliner from Chicago to Omaha. But, you gotta want it bad. Military pilot training is no cakewalk. Expect a third of your class to wash out . . . . maybe even including yourself. If that happens, what's your next choice of career fields? "Civilian" may not be one of the choices.

I think it may be a moot point anyway. If your eyesight is "poor" that will probably disqualify you immediately. Also keep in mind that getting a pilot training slot is probably the most competitive thing you've ever done. They're looking for potential officer's first and pilot aptitude second.

 

[jkarl1]

I totally agree with Draginass. This is not Comair, ERAU, or Flight safety, this is the Air Force! Period. Don’t expect that you can walk into flight training and come out a commercial pilot.

I really don’t know what your intentions are, or your level of motivation, but I can tell you that if you want to go the "Military route" as an alternate to the low economic "civilian route," then your already going in A$$backwards.

There is nothing wrong with pursuing a civilian career while in, or after the military. But, you can not use the military as "Free Flight School" and believe me....you wont. Because the people with that mentality usually leave crying, after their first 7.6 minutes at OTS.

If you want to go military, than you must focus on the Military first, not being a Boeing pilot. (God-Forbid)

I have some questions for you: How do you even know you want to even be a pilot? Do you have any flight time? Anytime in a plane? Been inside one? Can you Fly?

I know it seems like a good "Dream" to be a military pilot, but believe me it is a "nightmare" of work and dedication to get to that point. You have to bust your a$$. And it’s more than any College can put out.

I am not trying to discourage anyone, but I am just warning you to be prepared, because only the toughest survive.

 

[AlbieF15]

It ain't THAT tough....

Ok, OK, a little less gloom here. Let's lighten up on the wannabes a bit.

If you WANT to be a military pilot chances are you can make it. a 33% attrition rate means a 67% success rate. Have you stayed out of the bottom third of most of your peer groups during your life? Chances are the trend will continue in the military if you've been generally pretty successful in your other endevors so far.

Now...right now I don't know what the average UPT attrition rate is, but I'll bet its much closer to half that rate. (T-37/T-38 guys...insights?) Some of the attrition isn't guys "washing out" as much as giving up...finding out flying is harder/different or just not what they expected and deciding its not for them. Some guys who REALLY want it will be eliminated too, but I don't think its going to be at the 33% rate.

I had about 700 civilian hours when I went to UPT. I thought the tweet was "easy" to fly, but I had lots of new stuff to learn (pattern procedures, radio calls, EPs, acro, pulling Gs). I was working VERY hard, but having LOTS of fun, too. I did very well in T-37s and never even thought about "not being able to do this".
Then came T-38s...and you've heard it before....your civilian time doesn't transfer a lot of skills here. If you haven't learned "the AF way" to fly and skated through tweets, this phase is tough. I skinned my nose on my first checkride, but went on to do well the rest of the program. Some of my classmates who stuggled in 37s by this time had caught up and did very well in the program. So...all this is why you hear "attitude and effort" from mil pilots on the board and not "more hours or turbine experience" etc prior to going to UPT.

Final point--I knew I wanted to work for Delta the day I showed up at UPT. I didn't say much about it...it was pointless anyway until I graduated, got wings, fulfilled my 7 years, etc etc. On the other hand, an Auburn classmate who was Mr EVERYTHING in AFROTC was 2 UPT classes behind me. He was going to be a below the zone Major, LTC, and Colonel (he just knew!). He knew anyone who went to the airlines wasn't as patriotic/dedicated as he was... Well...roll the tape. Mr Delta wannabe was in tank battles as a forward air controller in the first Gulf War, and later went on to fly fighters for 12 years active duty. Delta wannabe didn't have any airlines hiring when he was eligible to separate, so he took the bonus and served another hitch. This guy (obviously me) went on to fly in the ANG, get promoted to LTC, and continues to serve. My super cadet buddy, on the other hand, got out at the 10 year point, disappointed that the dynamic and imperfect AF didn't live up to his idealistic impressions. After flying heavies and 37s for a few years, he's a free lance corporate pilot with some side businesses.

Point to all this--you NEVER know at 18, 22, or even 30 where your career will lead. If you want to serve, and love to fly, then the AF is a great option. If you want to be chief of staff--good on you! We need good leaders. If you want to serve a few years then go to the ANG...welcome! The citizen soldier is a valuable asset for the nation. If you want to serve your "hitch" then go contribute to the tax base of the nation in the private sector--go! We'll burn your tax dollars as jet fuel and appreciate your contributions in the civilian world.

Just remember...if you do join....some folks will try to kill you. (of course...even if you don't we have terrorists trying to kill us, which makes being able to shoot back more comforting). You will know a friend or two that will die in accidents along the way. So...take the responsibility seriously and put your game face on, but if this is your dream then you can make it a happen! And maybe I'll even get to fly with you if you decide the F-15 is your dream jet.

Good luck.

 

[Tweetdrvr]

Well said!!

The washout rate is somewhere near 10%ish. I should say failure to complete rate. Some don't make it, and some just quit for all the reasons stated by Albie. My life is like an old Soviet Five Year plan, I keep making them, never achieve them and make another one

 

[JimNtexas]

Aviation Week said the other day that the T-6 program washout rate is only 6%, significantly lower than the T-37.

I've always heard the UPT total lose rate is around 15%. I'm not sure what the current figure is, but if it is anything like 1/3 then I'm going to write my congressman and complain.

They should be able to select and train people better than that.

 

[talondriver]

They should be able to select and train people better than that.

I'm not sure what the exact washout rate is but it's lower than it should be. That's not to say we have a lot of bad "stanleys", the majority are awesome. This is T-38 track specific to my base.

We often fail to stop weak students from graduating because of loop holes and using the "pilot shortage" as an excuse to keep weak swimmers in the program. These pilots end up being eliminated either at IFF or their respective RTU (which flings mud in our face for letting them get through). We're getting better though.

Believe it or not, we have more control of the Guard/Reserve students going through because their gaining units are kept informed on the students progress. They often follow our recommendation on whether their candidate is fighter qualified or not.

If you're on your way to SUPT (heavy or fighter), don't bring it weak

Us IPs have a saying: "If you give us 100% we'll give you 110%.
But if you give us anything less, you're f*cked".

 

[talondriver]

I guess I should have added a terminology legend. My apologies.

"stanley": student pilot

IFF: Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals. Fighter lead-in done at Moody AFB, GA in the T-38C and Sheppard AFB, TX in the AT-38B.

RTU: Replacement Training Unit. Training for specific fighter aircraft (Tyndall, Luke, D-M, assorted Guard bases)

SUPT: Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (Columbus, Vance, Laughlin, Sheppard, Moody for T-6)

That should squelch a couple of extra posts

 

[JimNtexas]

There was a guy (who is still a good friend) in my UNT class who had washed out past T-38 solo.

This was right after the SEA war ended and the USAF was in a major drawdown, so nobody was getting any slack in those days.

But to this day I've thought that was terrible waste, for a guy to go that far and then be washed out. It would have been far cheaper to give him a few more rides and let him catch up. In those days he could have gone to a heavy out of T38s if he wasn't ready for PIC.

It's fine to be all macho and everything, but it's the taxpayers money that's being spent, and it shouldn't be spent just for ego gratification of the employees.

T-37/T-6 phase should wash out the weak students, there should be few washouts after that point if the system really works as advertised.

I think if a lot of guys are washing out at the end of T-38s or in IFF, then there is a failure of leadership somewhere.

 

[HueyPilot]

UPT goals

We lost one in my class, and she quit. And to be honest, she was one of those kids that came to UPT expecting to be the next Chuck Yeager...no kidding...she told all of us that she was going to be a fighter pilot and go to TPS...wouldn't settle for less.

And 6 months later she quit before Tweets were even over.

We had about 4 that struggled. One is flying E-3s, two flying C-130s, and a third went to helicopters.

 

[talondriver]

The AF trusts our judgement on whether a student rates being a pilot...macho or not. You know the saying: You can teach a monkey how to fly if you had enough bananas yada yada...

I was a prior nav and wouldn't feel too comfortable knowing I had a pilot pushed through the program flying me around.