Considering the military route.

[secks]

Hello,

I'm a 21 year old college student on the verge of graduating with a degree in computer science and a degree in electrical engineering, 3.8 GPA. I am seriously considering pursuing a lifetime career in aviation, and would like some advice.

My main goal is to eventually fly Boeing heavies for the airlines/cargolines. The civilian route (instructing, PFT, etc) appears risky, expensive, and possibly very depressing. Thus, I'm giving serious consideration to serving my country in exchange for flight training and flight hours.

Unfortunately, I have no military experience, no PPL, and poor eyesight. I am more than willing to undergo PRK to correct my vision, however. Otherwise, I am in good shape.

On with the questions:

1) What are the pros and cons to the AF, AFRES, and ANG?

2) Which branch will provide me with the greatest opportunity to fly? What I fly really doesn't matter, as long as I'm doing something productive for the military (and myself)!

3) What are the commitments with each of the branches?

4) Is there any advantage to going AD?

5) Is it common for the AFRES and ANG to hire pilots full time?

6) What happens if you sign on with the reserve/guard and wash out of UPT?

7) Given the fact that I have poor eyesight, no family connections to a guard/reserve unit, and no PPL, are my chances of being accepted slim to none?

8) If my main goal is to earn enough hours to eventually fly for the majors, would I be better off taking the civilian route?

Thanks for reading.

 

[skyward80]

1) I think the pros and cons of each depends on who you talk to. I like the fact that in the AFRES and ANG, I have the opportunity to build up a civilian career while serving in the military. AD is nice if you're not interested in that too much, because you get all the benefits (healthcare, etc.). I won't say one is better than the other. I just like my track (AFRES KC-10s) cuz I get to fly heavies and build up a civilian career. A big con for me for active duty was not knowing my airframe and base ahead of time. Plus, you get moved around more. I am single, but I am getting sick of moving every couple of years.

2) If you're interested in flight hours, go AF, AFRES, or ANG. You'll want to fly something like a C-130, C-17, KC-135, KC-10, etc. The fighter guys don't get to fly as many hours. Perhaps, the coast guard C-130s might be a way to go to, but I dunno much about that.

3) As far as I know, AF, AFRES, and ANG all require 10 years after the training period which lasts about 2 years.

4) Once again, any advantages are solely in the eye of the beholder. The big thing in my mind are the benefits.

5) Right now full time slots are hard to come by cuz there are so many guys and gals from the majors out on the street. Once they are out of the picture, it's a matter of seniority I believe.

6) Uncle Sam will find you a new home doing another officer duty. Your time commitment would change accordingly.

7) What's your eyesight at? I got hired into my unit even though I lived more than 2000 miles away. Having a PPL would help, but it's not required. They take a look at more than just your ability to fly. I have quite a bit of instructing time, and I think it's safe to say that I can get a chimp to fly if I had enough block time with him.

8) NO! NO! NO! The civilian route is TOTALLY dead for the next few years. The only program I can think of that still works is at Comair. I have done the civilian route, and I can safely tell you that it will not work given the current operating environment. There are people on the street with more hours in the sky than God, with 747, 767, A340 type ratings, etc. As long as they are on the street, people at the bottom of the ladder (read: us) don't get to go anywhere. Don't go civilian unless you know somebody or unless you want to be an instructor slave for a long time, and then fly rent-a-wreck airplanes to who knows where.

Hope this helps a little. #8 is based on my experiences in the last couple of years. I dunno if everybody feels as strongly as I do though.

Lata!
Skyward80

 

[JimNtexas]

If you are in good health and can meet the vision requirement (20/70 I think) you should start today applying to Guard and Reserve units. Take the first UPT slot you get, don't worry about what kind of airplane it is. They are all good.

Search through the military section here for a lot of good info ( and a little BS ) on ANG/AFRES hiring, commissioning and pilot training.

You are in a great position to set yourself up for life and serve your country at the same time!

A lot of guys don't figure this out until they are 26, and then the age limit leaves them standing at the station.

Go ANG/AFRES and you will not regret it. There is a reasonable chance that you can turn the ANG/AFRES into a good full time job while you build time and wait for the airlines to hire you, which one or the other will probably do if you keep your nose clean and don't grow a third eye or something weird.

If you decide to go civil (and if your eyesight is really poor, that may be the only option), then you want to get a partnership in an airplane and start earning the rateings. Think about a Twin Commanche or Apache partnership down the road. As an engineer, you could spend a lot on flying and still live better than a lot of pilots.

If you go the civil route and you have a girlfriend or boyfriend, dump them. If you're married, get your divorce now and avoid the rush. Save for the day when you decide to take a full time job as a CFI or entry level frieght dog. Entry level civil pilot pay is about the size of the roundoff error in your engineering paycheck.

If being in the Military (note capital 'M') is a big motivator to you, then active duty is fine, but if you just want to serve your country by flying Uncle Sam's airplanes then it's really hard to beat the ANG/AFRES.

 

[AlbieF15]

Fly heavies if your heart says to (or your stomach insists!), but not to go be an airline pilot. You can chase your airline dream soon enough on the outside.

If you fly a KC10 or whatever, you get 2-3 years of right seat time. It adds the "total" column, but I don't think that is what gets you hired. PIC Turbine is the magic number...

Now...if you fly fighters/trainers you log PIC from first solo and then every time you fly your single seat/tandem seat jet. There are tons of fighter guys at Delta, United, JetBlue, SWA, etc. I don't know a single guy from any of my squadrons who applied to several airlines and didn't get hired by at least one.

Again...no guarantees, but around 1200-1500 PIC turbine seems to be the "get in the door" number at JetBlue, SWA, or Fedex. I know that all three require some serious PIC time, so your 1000 hours of co-pilot time in a C-5 won't help you until you upgrade to AC and start logging some PIC.

Big picture--if you join the military just to fly for the airlines, you'll be miserable. On the other hand--if you join to chase your dream, have some flying adventures as you serve your country, you'll likely have a blast no matter what you fly. Then, when its time to either separate, retire, or transition to the ANG, etc, you can move on to the civilian workforce.

 

[ToBeKC135Pilot]

Ya just to add a bit here...again nothing wrong whatsoever with planning a civilian career, but please, please, please, do not join to military to go civilian.

I feel a few ways about that: 1) ethically it is a bit shady..using the govt. to finance your personal goals (which isnt aweful I suppose) 2) there are many guys whose sole goal is to serve their country and fly. Please dont prevent them from flying because you wanna go into the airlines.

I am guard, no intention of flying civilian. I think you will love it, but just dont "Use" the military.

Sorry, may have rambled I am just pretty passionate about that issue. Good luck either way

 

[Easywithit]

Navy commitment is 8years for jets (F-18, F-14, EA-6B, and S3) and 7 years for everything else. That is after getting winged which will probably put you in the 10-11 year total AD time.

I think the Marines are the same, but not completely sure. Make sure you talk to a recruiter about your eyes before you go get any kind of surgery. I think that is a disqualifying factor (at the present time).

If you get jets, you're going to fly the Hornet. That is where the future is for Naval Aviation until the JSF is on line. Anyway, good luck and join because you want to serve and know that 10-11years is no joke and non-negotiable.

 

[skyward80]

ToBeKC135Pilot:

Good point. Didn't want to sound like I was going mil for job security. It's a nice little bennie, I'll admit. However, job one is serving my country.

Lata!
Skyward80

 

[JimNtexas]

Ya just to add a bit here...again nothing wrong whatsoever with planning a civilian career, but please, please, please, do not join to military to go civilian.

I feel a few ways about that: 1) ethically it is a bit shady..using the govt. to finance your personal goals (which isnt aweful I suppose) 2) there are many guys whose sole goal is to serve their country and fly. Please dont prevent them from flying because you wanna go into the airlines.

I have a different take on this. If you join any of the Reserve forces, you must be ready, willing, and able to deploy at a moment's notice for as long as the President says. If you join the active force, you must be willing to live where they tell you and take the job they give you for the full span of your comittment. If you are not able to make that comittment, then it is dishonorable to join.

But as long as you are willing to uphold your end of the bargin, there is nothing at all wrong with to think about how to combine service in the reserve forces with a civilian career, and to try and get the best deal for your personal situation.

Some guys join the military planning to retire as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs after 35 years, and then go on to become a Senator or Cabinet Member. Nothing wrong with that.

But there also nothing wrong with a military member planning for this future civilian career in the private sector. It's foolish not to.

 

[ToBeKC135Pilot]

Ya I fully agree. I never meant to imply that a civilian career is wrong. I meant to say that going military ONLY to help a civilian career is wrong.

I think by some replies it seemed I meant otherwise and I did not. Sorry for the confusion!

Adam

 

[46Driver]

Navy commitment is 8years for jets (F-18, F-14, EA-6B, and S3) and 7 years for everything else. That is after getting winged which will probably put you in the 10-11 year total AD time.

I think the Marines are the same, but not completely sure. Make sure you talk to a recruiter about your eyes before you go get any kind of surgery. I think that is a disqualifying factor (at the present time).

If you get jets, you're going to fly the Hornet. That is where the future is for Naval Aviation until the JSF is on line. Anyway, good luck and join because you want to serve and know that 10-11years is no joke and non-negotiable.

The big part of this is: if you get jets. Navy is training more and more helo pilots (probably close to 50% now) and we have been told to expect up to a 40% increase in the number of helo students. Marines always train a substantial number of helo pilots. Your choice will be determined by the needs of the Navy (or Marines). Speaking from personal experience, helo time is nearly useless for major airlines (at several companies such as SouthWest, Jet Blue, FedEx) it is listed as "Other time" along with gliders and balloons. The fact that I and many others were able to transition to a glass cockpit RJ straight from helos is irrelevant