Considering the military route.

[THT]

I find it rather amusing and interesting that guys who a year ago were begging for OTS gouge and UPT gouge are now the "dispensers of knowledge" and are the barometers of a poster's professionalism and potential to be an AF officer.

SNIP...

As a naive UPT selectee headed to OTS in two weeks I decided to stay out of this one, but after following this thread I'd have to say I agree most with this post. I think it's really hard to predict what kind of officer one will be before they even enter the military based solely on their comments on a message board. Everyone has their own reasons for joining the AF and although I'm not interested in the airlines, I'm not joining solely for the purpose of serving my country. I'm joining for the opportunity to fly military aircraft and recieve the best training possible, which will ultimately make me the best pilot that I can be. I guess you could call that self-serving but I am rather patriotic and grateful for the chance to serve my country as an AF pilot.

In addition to the chance of going to war and being shot at, there's always the chance of dying in an accident as well. As a AF dependant I remember when my friends father died in a F-16 midair at Ramstein in the mid 80's. Although I was only like 9-10 years old, I remember how hard it was on the kid and his family, not to mention the squadron. I know you want to fly heavies, but accidents do happen more frequestly in military aviation. Something else to think about.

 

[T1bubba]

Lots of folks show up at OTS/OCS/UPT brimming with confidence about just how great they're going to do. It usually doesn't last long.

I spent about a year and a half dealing with every student at a certain UPT base that didn't leave with wings on their chest for whatever reason. There are no common denominators for those who don't make it through. Even those of us with insight into the attrition process couldn't predict who would make it through the flying portion of the program and who wouldn't. Anyone who can predict success in UPT can make a fortune selling that info to the USAF because they are always looking for ways to reduce attrition and get the most bang for their training dollars.

On the other hand, I can think of several situations involving attitude and integrity where it was obvious someone wasn't going to make it through very early into their time at UPT.

Patmack- there's a big difference between someone being a bit overconfident and insulting military officers. I remember that WOFT hopeful as well as another thread even longer ago by some Navy wannabe who had some airline time... I couldn't agree more with the last line in your post, though.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Great thread...

Secks, as you can see there are all kinds of opinions out there...here's mine. I got into the AF in the late 80's purely to serve my time, get the experience and go fly for an airline. That's it! I went in with that goal in mind and regardless of what some people might want to think because of my aspirations, the character of my service was never anything other than honorable. I did what I was told, when I was told. When the time came that my obligation to the government was finished I simply resigned. At no point did I ever consider the military as a career option, not even for a short time. My thinking was that if I couldn't get an airline job I'd find something else to do.

Active duty had a lot of downsides and a few upsides as well. Moving around a lot gets to be a drag. Seeing the world sounds fun until you realize that most of the 'world' you'll see is in base ops (at least for this ex T-tail Mafioso). You'll be besieged by the "compete or die" crowd that always seem to be DNIF (sick) or on leave when the $hit comes calling. The military is very much like a major corporation with just as many cutthroat, get-aheads. Keep in mind that doing your JOB is your service and not buying into the BS will keep you sane. Also remember that the military actively recruits enlisted folks on the promise of training, then a period of service, then discharge to a great job or college. Officers are the same way! Out of my UPT class of 26, 18 of us graduated. Other than one ex-army rotorhead only ONE guy stayed in. We are ALL at the airlines and none of us regrets a thing. Life is good. The challenges along the way were just that...little roadblocks that you have to get over. OTS and UPT are unlike most of what you've done in your life because things are done the military way, not the normal way. Once you get into the 'groove' you'll fit right in. After training is over most units are concerned with getting the work done. At least that's the way it was in heavies. Stuff had to be moved, so we moved it.

For the upsides, the biggest bennie are the lifelong friendships that you'll gain. I've met and maintained contact with more guys over the years than I can count. The trust that you develop between each other is something that you won't find anywhere else (except maybe among police or firemen). Plus it's an INCREDIBLE network when it comes time to apply to the airlines.

Here's the 2 cents: Consider all your options; go for a guard/reserve job should it present itself, if not then consider active duty. If you've got the financial ability the civilian route isn't out of the question either, but it sure is nice to live above the poverty line even when in training.

Good luck with your decisions.

 

[HueyPilot]

Service

I've got to agree with the above post. I don't look down upon those who want to do their stint then get out and look for work on the outside, not one bit. If there's one thing, they've served their country 500 times more than the average American. I myself have taken a bit of flak and "looks" from my own chain of command when I mention that I plan on going back to the Reserves (had 8 years ARNG experience prior to AD anyways) and that I'm perfectly happy retiring at 20 years as a Major.

That's the #1 bad side to the military...all the "fast burners" who are so intent on one day commanding a squadron or pinning on O-6 that they'll stab you in the back if you're not watching it. And those are the very same guys who'll try to make you feel bad for being a poor citizen for not wanting to achieve the same goals they want. If you ask me, 99% of those guys are worse than the person who wants to do an honest 8 years as a mil pilot and fly for the airlines...those guys put service second to their own personal careers. But on paper...they look like the perfect patriot because for them, being "patriotic" and "service before self" are a means to an end...a 25-30 year career that nets them O-6 or above.

I'll defend to the day I die someone's decision to put in the minimum service and then get out. That's what our country is founded on, and I'm glad that those individuals at least want to serve. If you look down on the guys who don't plan on 20 years and know they are going for an airline job later in life, then what do you think about Mr. Smith who served a 2 year enlistment, got out and worked the rest of his life in civilian jobs? Is he not a patriot either? Did he "use" the military? NO. A day of service, as I've said before, is one day more than 90% of Americans ever contribute.

Secks:

Go ahead and go for your goal of flying for the military. Understand though that having good grades and attending high-ranking colleges won't guarantee success at either OTS or UPT. Staying focused and dealing with the situation at hand in the best manner possible is what will get you through. And if you give it 110% and get washed out...well, at least you gave it a go.

Stay focused while you are in uniform, and give the nation your best effort. It's not how long you stay in, but how well you did your job while you were in service that equates, in my mind, whether or not you "used" the military. If you serve and do the bare minimum until you get out...then that's not the right way to do things. If you do your 8-10 years, and give the military a 100% effort throughout, you've given honorable service and that's something to be proud of.

The military will offer you alot that going the civilian route won't give you. You'll certainly have a wide array of experience. I don't know too many civilian-trained airline pilots that have flown worldwide, and dealt with combat operations, flying in formation, refueling other airplanes, doing air-to-air refueling themselves, or have landed on a dirt airstrip at night wearing goggles. So you'll have some good stories to tell when you're retired, and overall you'll be a better person for the experience. You'll also become a member of a great net of connections, which will serve you when you get out. And as the above poster mentioned...you'll make some great friends flying for the military. These folks aren't here to show up, fly an airplane, collect a check and go home to the family. These guys are dedicated beyond schedules and paychecks, and you'll literally live with them from time to time.

Good luck getting to where you want to be.

 

[Yahtzee]

Talondriver,

How's life at CBM? Just when I get checked out in the new jet, slots open up. Maybe I'll be back in my favorite XC machine one day.

P.S. How's Sonic doing these days? I wonder how many Girl Scout cookies he bought. He wouldn't give me the pleasure of telling me how many phone calls he got. Somehow I don't think he was happy with me.


Secks,

In my experience, attitude had more to do with success in UPT than anything else. The most common factor I saw among DGs was humility and a willingness to help their classmates.

Yahtz

 

[JimNtexas]

That's the #1 bad side to the military...all the "fast burners" who are so intent on one day commanding a squadron or pinning on O-6 that they'll stab you in the back if you're not watching it. And those are the very same guys who'll try to make you feel bad for being a poor citizen for not wanting to achieve the same goals they want. If you ask me, 99% of those guys are worse than the person who wants to do an honest 8 years as a mil pilot and fly for the airlines...those guys put service second to their own personal careers. But on paper...they look like the perfect patriot because for them, being "patriotic" and "service before self" are a means to an end...a 25-30 year career that nets them O-6 or above.

Huey Pilot, you said it better than I could. I agree 100%.

 

[talondriver]

Talondriver,

How's life at CBM? Just when I get checked out in the new jet, slots open up. Maybe I'll be back in my favorite XC machine one day.

P.S. How's Sonic doing these days? I wonder how many Girl Scout cookies he bought. He wouldn't give me the pleasure of telling me how many phone calls he got. Somehow I don't think he was happy with me.
Yahtz

Life's good at CBM. Locals are pingin' about the BRAC scare. End of fiscal year no fly...standard. We actually used all our hours this time .
I just saw Sonic today for the first time in a long time. He was out on 45 with some CE guys. WG/CC special project I'm sure.
Not sure about the cookies though. PB went back to the BUFF.
Oh...there's a CJs Pizza on base now!! Woohoo!!