Conscientious Objector

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In WWII the bomber pilots were told.... 'you are going to be baby killers'..... at least they weren't American babies....right!

Right after 9/11 the press was going nuts over the military flying CAP over US cities.. they [the press] loved it. And it seemed the PR officers for these squadrons were right out of press school.... I like the fighter jock interviewed as he preflighted his jet..... "I wouldn't like it...but yeah, I'd shoot down a US airliner". Sh!t hot dude! only four more to go!

Then there was the tanker pilot who said flying airliners.... "pretty much bus driver kind of stuff. You take off, you land, it's all automated." As for tankers, "you won't get this kind of fun flying anywhere else."




It's black and white baby! Clear cut decisions with no grey! Rock on!

 

[hoover]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

 

[bssthound]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then.

Absolutely. It's a great way of life and I've met some of the most amazing people on this earth BUT there's a chance one will accidentally take out innocent cilivilans or not survive a mission. It's something we all understood when we joined and it became clearer as we progressed through training. No, it's not for everyone. If someone has qualms the best thing he/she can do is just stay out of the way.

To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

Depends on whether or not it's a legal order. Unlike what you've seen on war movies, or your best bud who "knows all about it" told you, etc. it's not really a case of one's commander telling you to "go bomb that building over there." Every target is chosen and every bomb is dropped for a reason. Believe it or not, the military goes to extensive measures to minimize collateral damage. I could be wrong as two boys makn' the beast with two backs, but I read the above post as insinuating military pilots "blindly" follow orders without understanding what's going on. That's shallow and uninformed at best. Use your intelligence and reasoning to figure out there might be a bit more to a military operation than you understand.

That being said I do honestly thank you for realizing that about yourself and not pursuing a slot. Miltary flying is not all movies and commercials and it definitely isn't for everyone.

 

[Draginass]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

I'm glad you didn't too. You're obviously too self-centered to function in a team in critically important situations. In 22 years of service, I never had to "blindly follow orders without knowing the rationale behind them." Also, in that time the topic of CO never entered into any kind of discussion in ANY of the squadrons or organizations I served in. Military members copping-out with CO claims is such an infinitesimally small issue in the military, that it doesn't even warrant attention.

You're idea of the military ethos is obviously garnered from TV and movies which bear almost zero resemblance to any sort of reality. The Hollywood dimwits can't even get the uniforms correct half the time, nor do they care about portraying a realistic image. It' all about selling tickets to other dimwits.

Military commanders rely heavily on the judgment and ethical decision-making by their subordinates.

Thank goodness there are much better men than you serving us courageously and selflessly. You can safely sit back and rely on their protection.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

 

[Deuce130]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

Good decision on your part. Oftentimes soldiers and airmen don't know the big picture, but the commanders giving orders do. When told to bomb that building over there, it's quite possible that US lives are at stake and are counting on your ability to do what you're told when told to do it. Combat is a fluid, dynamic, time critical situation. Commanders don't always have the seconds or minutes to explain themselves to the trigger puller if that guy needs his values or reason assuaged. You made the right call for you.

 

[Deuce130]

In WWII the bomber pilots were told.... 'you are going to be baby killers'..... at least they weren't American babies....right!

Right after 9/11 the press was going nuts over the military flying CAP over US cities.. they [the press] loved it. And it seemed the PR officers for these squadrons were right out of press school.... I like the fighter jock interviewed as he preflighted his jet..... "I wouldn't like it...but yeah, I'd shoot down a US airliner". Sh!t hot dude! only four more to go!

Then there was the tanker pilot who said flying airliners.... "pretty much bus driver kind of stuff. You take off, you land, it's all automated." As for tankers, "you won't get this kind of fun flying anywhere else."

This is why you're not in the military. I'd rather a "fighter jock" shoot down an airliner and not like it than allow that airliner to crash into the Twin Towers. 200 dead civilians rather than 2000. Don't think for one second that "fighter jock" wouldn't lose sleep at night or question his decision in the years that would follow. He certainly wouldn't be thinking "four more to go." Not surprising that someone completely ignorant of the military would spout such drivel, though. Didn't you say your father was a Navy pilot or something? Where did this contempt for military pilots come from? Stick to ALPA, Rez. You're not very good as a military analyst.

 

[pilotyip]

Thank You

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

I personally thank you for doing your country a service by not serving. It is called the service, because you serve and are suborinate to your commanders and their civilian oversite. It is about giving beyound yourself.

 

[C-17 Driver]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

http://www.psywarrior.com/sontay.html

I suggest you read about the Son Tay Raid by clicking on the above link. You really knocked over the lantern with that comment.

On Nov. 21, 1970, at approximately 11:18 p.m., the Son Tay raiders, accompanied by C-130Es called Combat Talons, departed Udorn, Thailand, for the final phase of their mission. At the same time, diversionary attacks were being launched all over the country. The U.S. Navy began a huge carrier strike against North Vietnam's port city of Haiphong. Ten Air Force F-4 Phantoms were flying MIG combat air patrol to screen the force from enemy fighters, while an F-105 Wild Weasel decoy force launched a raid on enemy surface-to-air missle sites. Five A-1 Skyraiders with the call sign "Peach One to Five", arrived on station to suppress ground fire around the enemy camp.

Rumor has it that some of these guys flying the diversionary missions didn't know why the purpose behind their missions was. What if they chose to not "blindly follow their orders?" There is a big picture out there that those at the tip of the spear do not see. Sometimes, you have to have faith in your leadership.

 

[Frisko]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

scoff

enjoy "exercising your intelligence, reasoning and values" from the comfort of your own home. My guess is you didn't make any "decision", but instead it was made for you. If you did in fact make a "decision" based off these issues then it obviously wasn't a very informed one.

 

[bssthound]

Frisko astutely stated:

My guess is you didn't make any "decision", but instead it was made for you.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! I think we have a winner!!