Congrat's The goose is cooked!

[BoilerUP]

While that's an economically sound theory YIP, we're talking a few percent increase in crew compensation which could be MORE than offset by taking 100% advantage of a mainline carrier's economies of scale with maintenance, parts, fuel, and other necessary vendor items.

 

[pilotyip]

Only known after it happens

While that's an economically sound theory YIP, we're talking a few percent increase in crew compensation which could be MORE than offset by taking 100% advantage of a mainline carrier's economies of scale with maintenance, parts, fuel, and other necessary vendor items.

You may be correct, but again it is the unintended consequences that are unknown at the beginning. For example, if the pilots get raises, will the FA's. Mech's and baggage smashers all stand by at their present pay rates? This along with a hose of other unknowns would make consolidation anything but a sure thing. Remember in the end, it is not management, gov't or unions that determine your pay, it is the consumer who elects to make an independent economic decision based in his/her best interest.

 

[budd]

Ok we will vote down the next ********************ty contract that is ta'd. But then when we strike you have to walk out with us. That is the BIGGEST problem. You *************************'s keep flying instead of supporting the "INDUSTRY". We can't do it alone, it's not our fault you want your big house in your little bubble world to just sit back and blame us about your 10% paycut. Until mainline grows some balls and walks out with whatever regional trying for a deserving contract this will go on and on and on........Did Delta walk out with Comair? Mesaba stopped all flying when NWA struck. These are the facts. I don't care if mainline says you can't walk with the regional that strikes. If you don't, you have no right pointing fingers in who is destroying this career. You don't want to support the striking airline and you don't pay the mortgage for those on strike so what the hell are they suppose to do.

 

[nerjdriver]

To all of you union boys who vote in lousy pay and rules at the regionals. Congrats!

Another low paying career is evolving in this country and you boys are making it happen. What was a great career is truning into a slave labor industry. Low pay, crappy work rules, time away from home and family.

Keep applying to Gojets, Colgan, Republic, Pinnacle,etc.

The I gotta fly at all costs so when I turn 50 and secure a captains seat at a major airline so I can finally earn a good salary is working out just fine.

How about this.

To all you union boys who gave up scope at the majors CONGRATS!

To all the RAH Riddle Diddles who see nothing wrong with flying the A320 for $3.50 an hr in the right seat because it gets your roc*& off.

To wonderful ALPA national that exists solely to make lanyards and a literary masterpiece known as the "Airline Pilot Magazine".

Oh and of course.......To Mesa, you suck!

 

[lineflyer1]

As a regional pilot, way back when "I" voted to turn about 7 or 8 THOUSAND entry level positions at mainline into 7 or 8 THOUSAND career positons at the regional level, I was thinking....., OH, wait a tick. Actually, I wasn't in on that decision. Sorry, I guess you'll have to ask some ALPA/APA mainline pilots about that one.

When I started my regional job, we flew turbo props and SkyWest was a good place to spend 3-5 years. We all know the rest of the story.

What the heck, I was over six figures last year (to the left of the decimal point) as a non check airman line pilot averaging 16 days off a month. Right now, I wouldn't trade my quality of life for juniority at a legacy for anything. That may change in the future, but the people who make those decisions are the same ones who sold out 7 to 8 thousand mainline jobs (excepting the ones that took the lump some early retirement buy out.)

So ALPA/APA, let me know what you decide. My logbook is up to date. Change the game and I'll think about updating my scantron. For now I'll make the best of it.

And please, please stop with this nonsense that the people who's careers you shat upon for you own shortsighted reasons are dragging this profession down. That decision rests with you. I don't have a vote on scope, but I do need to feed my family.

Your have a good job. Skywest learned a lot from Delta. Treat your people well and they will not vote a union in.

Problem is, all the good regional jobs have started to slip backwards due to the competitive pressures brought on by Colgan, Mesa, Go Jet, Republic etc,etc.

Even Skywest pilots who voted to fly 70 seat aircraft for 50 seat rates, oh I forgot no voting involved, are bringing the financial rewards of this career backwards. It's nice to see Skywest has not furloughed yet but there are many pilots not making the money they used to make at Skywest do to reduced flying. I believe it was Skywests undercutting of Expressjet that caused that pilot group to suffer wage loses.

Sooner or later you too at Skywest will feel the ravages of being undercut by those who think there will be a great paying job at the other end if they just get that experience as quick as they can no matter how little compensation they have to fly for to get it.

 

[budd]

So answer my Question Lineflyer!!! Are mainline pilots going to walk with the regionals when they strike and try to better the profession????? That is the only way this will be fixed. Post all the bs you want about who is undercutting who you want, BUT WILL YOU WALKOUT WITH US???? If your answer is the contract doesn't allow us to, than STFU!!! ALPA won't help us, so we need the guys making the money we all want to make to be on our side, or your paycheck and flying will continue to shrink. It really is that simple!!! I have put my time in and deserve it as much as you, so the next time any regional strikes we all walk. They can't fire all of us. Hows that for a solution. mesa excluded. You get the point! Quit pointing fingers at guys that have the same goals as you with familys and bills to pay. By the way, the competitive pressures are from management and mainline pilots (especially mainline ALPO), not the regional guys. Think about that after a couple beers, OK!!! FuOf!!​

 

[lineflyer1]

So answer my Question Lineflyer!!! Are mainline pilots going to walk with the regionals when they strike and try to better the profession????? That is the only way this will be fixed. Post all the bs you want about who is undercutting who you want, BUT WILL YOU WALKOUT WITH US???? If your answer is the contract doesn't allow us to, than STFU!!! ALPA won't help us, so we need the guys making the money we all want to make to be on our side, or your paycheck and flying will continue to shrink. It really is that simple!!! I have put my time in and deserve it as much as you, so the next time any regional strikes we all walk. They can't fire all of us. Hows that for a solution. mesa excluded. You get the point! Quit pointing fingers at guys that have the same goals as you with familys and bills to pay. By the way, the competitive pressures are from management and mainline pilots (especially mainline ALPO), not the regional guys. Think about that after a couple beers, OK!!! FuOf!!​

Can't strike or walk out with you! I'm no longer employed at an airline!

I only had one contract to vote on and that was at a regional. My vote was no but more than 50% of my fellow pilots voted yes for it. The CAL pilots will never walk.

All you have to do is look at where the manufacturing jobs have gone in this country, to the lowest cost provider. The same thing is happening to the airline industry here. Deny all u want, the fact still remains that most regional pilots won't strike. They need the job to get to that major job that will soon be just a shadow of it's former self, as far as a career goes.

P.S. Just curious> How many contracts have u voted no on?

 

[ttuite]

and you will flying that 737-800 for 95k a year!

And loving life too! That's more than he will make and probably have weekends off. Much better than at mainline in the same amount of time. You can't just look at hourly pay anymore you have to look at quality of life. I have a good friend with 2 years at Delta who will make under 60K this year. He sits in a crash pad in NYC and gets his min days off. He is making at least 30K less than he was making at Mesa. Guess he is just still paying his dues. All I know is that he is seriously looking for a job outside of aviation. Delta is supposed to be one of the good ones! Imagine what it is like at CAL, UAL or USAir

 

[lineflyer1]

And loving life too! That's more than he will make and probably have weekends off. Much better than at mainline in the same amount of time. You can't just look at hourly pay anymore you have to look at quality of life. I have a good friend with 2 years at Delta who will make under 60K this year. He sits in a crash pad in NYC and gets his min days off. He is making at least 30K less than he was making at Mesa. Guess he is just still paying his dues. All I know is that he is seriously looking for a job outside of aviation. Delta is supposed to be one of the good ones! Imagine what it is like at CAL, UAL or USAir

Don't have to imagine. I was at CAL. My job Captains set at Expressjet was way better than my first officer seat at CAL.

Just like the majors flying has shifted to the regionals because of cost, the flying is shifting from high cost regionals to low cost regionals now and those guys who keep voting in crappy contracts just to keep flying will eventually find all the contracts everywhere to be crappy once they have clmbed the ladder.

 

[lineflyer1]

And loving life too! That's more than he will make and probably have weekends off. Much better than at mainline in the same amount of time. You can't just look at hourly pay anymore you have to look at quality of life. I have a good friend with 2 years at Delta who will make under 60K this year. He sits in a crash pad in NYC and gets his min days off. He is making at least 30K less than he was making at Mesa. Guess he is just still paying his dues. All I know is that he is seriously looking for a job outside of aviation. Delta is supposed to be one of the good ones! Imagine what it is like at CAL, UAL or USAir

Probelm is pay is disapperaring and so is the quality of life in every contract out there.

I know why your friend is looking outside.

Even though you may only have 8 days a month off at a regular job you're home every night, your wife and kids actually know who you are and all those birthdays and events in your childrens lifes you can be at. Sounds like your friend has figured out where the true quality in life is.

Pilots are addicts. Thats why we take time away from home to commute across the country so we can fly for 18 days a month with pilots and flight attendants that we have never met before, who we don't enjoy being around because so many are waiting to stab each another in the back, so on layovers we hang out alone because most of the people you fly with are just not that friendly.

Home, family and friends. Thats were the true quality lies, through the friendships and comaraderie that are built by being together every day of your life.

 

[ttuite]

Probelm is pay is disapperaring and so is the quality of life in every contract out there.

I know why your friend is looking outside.

Even though you may only have 8 days a month off at a regular job you're home every night, your wife and kids actually know who you are and all those birthdays and events in your childrens lifes you can be at. Sounds like your friend has figured out where the true quality in life is.

Pilots are addicts. Thats why we take time away from home to commute across the country so we can fly for 18 days a month with pilots and flight attendants that we have never met before, who we don't enjoy being around because so many are waiting to stab each another in the back, so on layovers we hang out alone because most of the people you fly with are just not that friendly.

Home, family and friends. Thats were the true quality lies, through the friendships and comaraderie that are built by being together every day of your life.

I agree, thats why I got out in April. Working at a University in Pittsburgh and I don't see myself going back. I thought I would really miss the flying but I don't. I think the last few years really took the love of it out of me.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree, thats why I got out in April. Working at a University in Pittsburgh and I don't see myself going back. I thought I would really miss the flying but I don't. I think the last few years really took the love of it out of me.

ttuite, where did you work last? It looks like you have worked at a few places with your profile......

 

[20sx]

I started my leave in May...I miss the flying. But I don't miss being paid very little, being treated bad by my employer, and worrying about reduced flying and how it's going to destroy my schedule. A regular job is nice, predictable, and I don't have that depression that comes when I know I have to leave my family.

And yet, I still think about going back to the flying job. Pretty sick! Calling it an addiction pretty much sums it up.

 

[lineflyer1]

I started my leave in May...I miss the flying. But I don't miss being paid very little, being treated bad by my employer, and worrying about reduced flying and how it's going to destroy my schedule. A regular job is nice, predictable, and I don't have that depression that comes when I know I have to leave my family.

And yet, I still think about going back to the flying job. Pretty sick! Calling it an addiction pretty much sums it up.

I miss it too. But just like recovering alcholics, oh he--, anyone with an addiction that is bad for you, we all miss it and want it in our lives!

I won't argue the fact that if you live in base it is a mcuh better job and 12 days off min ain't bad either. If you commute like I did it adds a whole layer of degradation into your home life.

But think about it, you have a least 4 times in your career where your qualtiy of life is going to suck for a few years at a time and thats provided you don't get furloughed or change airlines throught out your career due to your airline going out of buisiness.

The over riding problem is the pay gap between new hire and captain. If the payscale progression was more flat then it would not hurt so much to stat over again and financialy you would be farther ahead during your career.

Let's face it, flying a trubo prop is more challenging and difficult than a jet. Since the advent of the regional jet we fly into the same cities the majors do.

 

[budd]

Can't strike or walk out with you! I'm no longer employed at an airline!

I only had one contract to vote on and that was at a regional. My vote was no but more than 50% of my fellow pilots voted yes for it. The CAL pilots will never walk.

All you have to do is look at where the manufacturing jobs have gone in this country, to the lowest cost provider. The same thing is happening to the airline industry here. Deny all u want, the fact still remains that most regional pilots won't strike. They need the job to get to that major job that will soon be just a shadow of it's former self, as far as a career goes.

P.S. Just curious> How many contracts have u voted no on?

1st vote NO! 2nd vote NO ! 3rd vote NO!!!! As long as TW and DW are alive I will vote no until we have a 100% increase in pay!! Why the hell are you telling me I am destroying your life if you don't work for an airline. By the way I will strike tommorrow without being told!!!! fucck alpa!!!!!

 

[Rerouted]

My old man sat me down one day and told (he's an ex CSEA Union leader - Civil Service Employee Association) that the guy who collects my trash has far better representation than I did at RAH. I thought about it, looked at my life at the company, recognized that being there and accepting it made me part of the problem, and quit. I miss the flying, but can't imagine putting up with that way of life ever again. You guys hold all the cards - but you have to put your money where your mouth is. There are other ways to make aliving. As long as you work the job for sub par rewards, you prove management right. Not a popular thought is it?

 

[lineflyer1]

1st vote NO! 2nd vote NO ! 3rd vote NO!!!! As long as TW and DW are alive I will vote no until we have a 100% increase in pay!! Why the hell are you telling me I am destroying your life if you don't work for an airline. By the way I will strike tommorrow without being told!!!! fucck alpa!!!!!

Just for clarification. I said the quality of the career is being destroyed, not my life.

 

[pilotyip]

My old man sat me down one day and told (he's an ex CSEA Union leader - Civil Service Employee Association) that the guy who collects my trash has far better representation than I did at RAH. I

No comparison, the CSEA like all other public sector unions dealt with politicians, who have no worries about money, only public status. They roll over and play dead when dealing with unions. After all they can just force future administrations to raise taxes and the public has to pay. Promises of fantastic retirements, benefits for life are easy for the politician to give away. They do not have pay for them. Private sector unions have to deal with the reality of the market place, where being at a cost disadvantage could be the end of your business. BTW The public sectors is close Bk’ing many communities

 

[Rerouted]

Look, no matter how you cut it, if you work for sub standard wages, accept companies constantly violating the contract THEY agreed to...then unilaterally enforcing whatever part of that contract they want and you accept it, you're allowing them to get away with it (pardon the run on sentence). I remember opening up our old union rag and reading 3 pages of open grievances. Our union had no teeth, and if it did, it wasn't motivated to use them. Granted, airlines face overwhelming business challenges, but realistically, they continue to under price their services, overpay their top execs and find workers who are willing to work for very low wages and give up much of the stability in their personal lives to do the job. The moment that one part of that equation changes, the whole picture changes. People aren't going to give up flying as a mode of transportation. More pilots will lose their jobs in the coming months, no question there either, but at what point will pilot groups say enough is enough and stand up for themselves or just walk away from it? I love the job and miss it - don't get me wrong, but without real unity, there's very little hope for the future of this profession.

 

[pilotyip]

Sub-standard wage?

Look, no matter how you cut it, if you work for sub standard wages,

$95K/yr which I have seen batted around as a regional captain is in the upper 15% of US wage earners, is that sub-standard?

 

[Rerouted]

Oh Man.....

I completely agree - Regional pilots are among the best paid professionals in America. The FO's who make 34K after 4 years - They too are paid well. The 16K flight attendants....60K Captains....all among the highest paid. 15 hour duty days all the time, musical bases - all great stuff. Please PType - excuse me for even suggesting there is room for improvement. 95K? Oh yeah, that represents the masses at the Regionals.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Unless your "Commute" is a thousand mile flight, I'll stick with the Regional moniker. Give up some more scope and we'll have to call it "Domestic Airlines."

I, like most of the senior "Regional" pilots did not intend on being here so long. But due to 9-11, mainline bankruptcies, relaxed scope, economic turmoil, and age 65 were stuck here. All we can do is make our contracts better than when we got here. Unfortunately, the baby boomer pilots have destroyed the industry by starting "commuter" airlines contracts so low, refusing to fly turboprops at mainline, refusing to fly 50 seat jets at mainline, selling scope for the false sense of protection in their own jobs, and now whining to get age 65 passed.

You want to point fingers, point them at yourself. Anyone of use would have flown anywhere for any pay, to get into the industry. You can't blame the 21 year old that has an opportunity to fly at a regional, you would have do it too. In the 60's they would have gone straight to UAL (with NO licenses or college). Now those same guys, shame the regional pilots (with all their ratings and a 4-year aviation degree) saying that they are unsafe and have no place in the industry.

The shame, the demise of the industry, all that fault lies solely on the mainline pilots shoulders.

Going to UAL with hardly anything meant you flew sideways or right seat for a very long time with guys with tons of experience. RJ pukes in the right seat have just a little less time than the RJ pukes in the left seat. Aviation degrees are not worth the paper they are written on. I have jumpseated on two RJs in my life and will never get on another one again. One time the two pimple faces couldnt identify the body of water they were flying over. It was the Chesapeeke Bay. The other time the two pukes were heading towards a line of weather and were not operating the radar properly. The Captain changed his mind 4 times and the FO sat there with his finger in his nose.

 

[Metro752]

Going to UAL with hardly anything meant you flew sideways or right seat for a very long time with guys with tons of experience. RJ pukes in the right seat have just a little less time than the RJ pukes in the left seat. Aviation degrees are not worth the paper they are written on. I have jumpseated on two RJs in my life and will never get on another one again. One time the two pimple faces couldnt identify the body of water they were flying over. It was the Chesapeeke Bay. The other time the two pukes were heading towards a line of weather and were not operating the radar properly. The Captain changed his mind 4 times and the FO sat there with his finger in his nose.

That's right. All the more reason to end this stupidity of having contracted flights. Why couldn't "mainline" pilots fly Jetstreams, Dash-8s, and CRJs?

 

[pipejockey]

I thought about it, looked at my life at the company, recognized that being there and accepting it made me part of the problem, and quit.

And if people like you who are not going to work for sub-par wages keep quitting, then there are very few left who will stand up and be men and vote NO NO NO NO!!! On all of these rat bastard TA's that come around. All that is left are the pablum puking sissies who loooove to fly!! They do it for the looooove! Just one big looooove fest. While the few men like me who are trying to actually earn a living and support our families are left surrounded by these buffoons who only know how to cave in to everything management asks. Thanks for being a quitter and leaving me to work with these sissies with sunflower seed sized balls that know nothing other than bending over and taking it so deep by management they feel a tickle in their throats!

 

[CptMurf]

Going to UAL with hardly anything meant you flew sideways or right seat for a very long time with guys with tons of experience. RJ pukes in the right seat have just a little less time than the RJ pukes in the left seat. Aviation degrees are not worth the paper they are written on. I have jumpseated on two RJs in my life and will never get on another one again. One time the two pimple faces couldnt identify the body of water they were flying over. It was the Chesapeeke Bay. The other time the two pukes were heading towards a line of weather and were not operating the radar properly. The Captain changed his mind 4 times and the FO sat there with his finger in his nose.

You know what.....Your right!
Now, I gotta go. Got to study my NOAA maritime maps before I start my 4 day with my furloughed ATA FO. Got to remember my logbook too, so I can put in those last tenths, that will help the 11,000 hours TT. Damn...another pimple. Hope the 9 treats me well this week.



Does the fact you're at AirTran, somehow make you a better pilot at 5,000 hours than a 5, 10, 15 thousand hour RJ pilot? There are way more of those, then there are 1501 hour pilots with a fresh ATP.

Oh, by the way, the AirTran certificate was started by a bunch of your "regional pukes".