Concerned Mom Won't Fly with Arabs (who train Marines)

[highsky]

Where to start.

Are your comments from first hand knowledge from time spent in the AOR or from the internet.

We have done nothing about the Al Queda problem? How about our efforts in Afghanistan. Many fine Americans have died doing nothing against AQ there. Having resently returned, I can tell you that progress is being made there.

My point about Clinton was that someone blamed HW Bush and W Bush for the problems in Africa but soemhow forgot that we had a President from 1993 -2001. I was just reminding him that we had some one in office during that time.

Iraq will get solved. Simply throwing in the towel and running is not a solution. I'm not saying you said that, so don't get upset. Compare Iraq to N. Ireland as some one has already done. That problem appears close to being solved but it took many years and strong willed people.

I believe W undestands this threat more than you are giving him credit for. It's easy to throw stones at him, and probably fun and popular. But he has kept his eye on the target and one day history will vindicate him for it.

Begin to flame away.

I totally agree.

 

[BigMeat]

You know we can all bicker about who is right and who is wrong. The fact of the matter is that we spent thousands of Americans life and billions of dollars attacking a country and killing thousands of them and they didnt have squat to do with 9-11. (For all you bush lovers he admitted himself) Now do expect those people to love you? Dont be ridiculous. We should have spent our resources going after Osama!

Oh yeah I almost forgot Bush sucks! I hope his wife gets a sex change and bangs him in the @ss. You know how those republicans are....

 

[AV80R]

...The fact of the matter is that we spent thousands of Americans life and billions of dollars attacking a country and killing thousands of them and they didnt have squat to do with 9-11. ... Now do expect those people to love you? Dont be ridiculous ...

You're right; prior to the Iraq war the entire Middle East was just overwhelmed with the pro-American feelings, emotions, love…
No, really - everyone knows that prior to the war there were only “piece loving peeple!"(sic) in that region… Yeah...:erm:

I wish there were more women (and men) like this in the Middle East...

 

[BigMeat]

You're right; prior to the Iraq war the entire Middle East was just overwhelmed with the pro-American feelings, emotions, love…
No, really - everyone knows that prior to the war there were only “piece loving peeple!"(sic) in that region… Yeah...:erm:

Oh forgive me you are correct! Saddam got those biological weapons to use on Kurds and Iranians not to mention his own people from who? Thats right us. Or how about the dictator Shaa we tried to put into power in Iran? Support for Israel? Yeah well if some other country tried taking this country I would go out guns a blazin! Just cause China does not like Bush does not mean that I would not fight the Chinese if they came over here to kick his butt.

Speaking of peace loving people enjoy openly supporting candidates that are in bed with the country that has provided us with the most terrorism funding and almost all of the 9-11 highjackers. Saudi Arabia.

 

[AV80R]

...Saddam got those biological weapons to use on Kurds and Iranians not to mention his own people from who? Thats right us...

Listen, you are forgetting the cold war realities. At the time one side or the other would be helping them out, whether it was us or the Russians…well, today we know it wasn’t a smart move, however at the time someone had to support the only power in the region willing to fight the ayatollahs in Iran.

Yeah well if some other country tried taking this country I would go out guns a blazin!

Huh? Aren't you a liberal? There’s NO WAY you would "go out guns blazin" - instead you'd ask for a UN resolution and then you'd "negotiate" and use the political "Super Powers" of the State Department. In other words, you'd become French - "Vive la Surrender" Sorry, cheap shot, couldn't resist...

...Just cause China does not like Bush does not mean that I would not fight the Chinese if they came over here to kick his butt...

Of course you wouldn't! Don't forget that the Chinese Red Army got lots of cash they could donate to Hillary's campain. Why would you want to offend them?...(ok, another cheap shot...)

As far as our support for Israel, I won’t deny it; I think it’s the right thing to do. The only issue I have with our support is that we are putting too many conditions and constraints on them. Basically I think we should let them do whatever they feel is necessary in order to be safe from Arab terrorists. I’m sure the Israelis are fully capable of defending themselves if given a real chance – hundreds of years of oppression gave them a real incentive to fight or die….

 

[BigMeat]

AV8OR,

Be careful. Not all of us are libs. I think you missunderstood or I miswrote. I would fight anyone on this soil. Cold war or not we helped build two very nasty evils. Osama and Saddam. Im glad Saddam is gone. However right now wasnt exactly the best time. Im cringing recently seeing another video coming out with Osama in it. The fear is not from him. My real fear is what is the next freedom we are going to give up from fear. Is it a going to be a constitutional freedom or is going to be the freedom to live in peace in my own home. I think we worry about Osama and his cohorts more than most worry about cancer or influenza. You are far more likely to die from the flu than Al-Qaeda. My fear is the fear of my fellow American.

 

[Limeyflyer]

And Dearborn MI, is a breeding ground for terrorist here in the US.

WTF man!!! You have no idea what you are talking about. Don't get me wrong, I would be suspicious on plane full of arabic speaking individuals, but to say Dearborn is a breeding ground for terrorism is BS. I am friends with numerous people from the middle east whose families think they live in Jordan, or another Arab countries, so they don't get killed by death squads. They are so happy to be in the US and not be living in fear of getting killed for being Sunni or ********************e. When Saddam was executed you say many Arabic men and women in the streets celebrating in Dearborn waving the Iraqi flag side by side with their beloved AMERICAN FLAG. Talking to these friends, Dearborn is a tight community, if somthing suspicious was going down, ie a sleeper cell ect. or radical preaching in the mosque, people would know right away,they have all said the authorities would be notified. These guys feel blessed to be in the USA, they dont want it F-ed because of some right wing radical a-hole wanting to get his seven virgins or whatever.

 

[Flyer1015]

WTF man!!! You have no idea what you are talking about. Don't get me wrong, I would be suspicious on plane full of arabic speaking individuals, but to say Dearborn is a breeding ground for terrorism is BS. I am friends with numerous people from the middle east whose families think they live in Jordan, or another Arab countries, so they don't get killed by death squads. They are so happy to be in the US and not be living in fear of getting killed for being Sunni or ********************e. When Saddam was executed you say many Arabic men and women in the streets celebrating in Dearborn waving the Iraqi flag side by side with their beloved AMERICAN FLAG. Talking to these friends, Dearborn is a tight community, if somthing suspicious was going down, ie a sleeper cell ect. or radical preaching in the mosque, people would know right away,they have all said the authorities would be notified. These guys feel blessed to be in the USA, they dont want it F-ed because of some right wing radical a-hole wanting to get his seven virgins or whatever.

Exactly! I lived in Michigan for four years, and I know many Dearborn Muslim families. All 100% American, good people.

And man is their food good!

**************************************

As far as our support for Israel, I won’t deny it; I think it’s the right thing to do. The only issue I have with our support is that we are putting too many conditions and constraints on them. Basically I think we should let them do whatever they feel is necessary in order to be safe from Arab terrorists. I’m sure the Israelis are fully capable of defending themselves if given a real chance – hundreds of years of oppression gave them a real incentive to fight or die….

And yet another reason there will NEVER be peace in the Middle East.

You have some born again evangelical Christians who believe the Jews must occupy Israel for the coming in the future. Then you have some Jews who believe Israel is their god-given-right-land. And then you have some Palestinians who are fighting for that same land. That lady said it's a clash of two mentalities, one from the ol' age, and one from the 21st century. While that is true, you still can't ignore the fact that all three religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) each have vented interests in the Middle East for various reasons. Throughout history, what's the #1 thing people have been killed in the name for? My vote is on religion.

 

[AV80R]

...Throughout history, what's the #1 thing people have been killed in the name for? My vote is on religion...

I'd say land - which was controlled by the powerbrokers of the time, the Church, the Mosques - religion. So in a way we do agree here.

As far as Israel, I do believe Israel has made many mistakes - the biggest one of them was not having expelled most, if not all, Arabs after winning three wars in a row. I know many of you will vehemently disagree with me and that's ok. Sure the world would condemn it; sure people would boycott Israel for a while. However, I do think the world would be more peaceful today. I think it’s a country that can never heal because it’s fighting a cancer inside and outside of its body. Whether Arab Israeli citizens or Arab Palestinians they all would like for Israel to disappear from the map…and given the birthrates of Arab women, one day it undoubtedly will…

 

[brainhurts]

...Throughout history, what's the #1 thing people have been killed in the name for? My vote is on religion...

I'd say land - which was controlled by the powerbrokers of the time, the Church, the Mosques - religion. So in a way we do agree here.

As far as Israel, I do believe Israel has made many mistakes - the biggest one of them was not having expelled most, if not all, Arabs after winning three wars in a row. I know many of you will vehemently disagree with me and that's ok. Sure the world would condemn it; sure people would boycott Israel for a while. However, I do think the world would be more peaceful today. I think it’s a country that can never heal because it’s fighting a cancer inside and outside of its body. Whether Arab Israeli citizens or Arab Palestinians they all would like for Israel to disappear from the map…and given the birthrates of Arab women, one day it undoubtedly will…

And why were Arabs not thrown out of Israel? Cheap labor! When the idea of throwing out "illegal" Arabs (Palestinians) came up over and over in the 50's and 60's and 70's(by then--way too late) there were those in the nation who complained their economy would suffer. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm sound familiar?

 

[brainhurts]

If you TRULY feel that ALL Muslims are out to get you, then yeah I guess I could see how you'd distrust/hate them all... that's living the paranoid life.

1.5+ billion people are not out to get you dead.

Vigilence is key, paranoia is not.

You are right. That is crazy. There are only about a billion that want the U.S. to be a nuclear and bio wasteland--may Allah be willing.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Why? Because we WANT them up and running, at a certain level. Make no mistake, if we (US govt.) wanted Al-Queda shut down, they would be shut down.

The US government wants us to have a certain amount of fear.

BINGO!!! We have a winner!

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Flyer1015]

You are right. That is crazy. There are only about a billion that want the U.S. to be a nuclear and bio wasteland--may Allah be willing.

Keep spewing that ignorant crap... show the rest of the world that you do hold the stereotype that Americans are ignorant.

Thanks bud!

 

[brainhurts]

Keep spewing that ignorant crap... show the rest of the world that you do hold the stereotype that Americans are ignorant.

Thanks bud!

Please keep spewing your appeasment and Muslim love--that is until they nuke or bio us, and then it will be Bush's fault for provoking them. They are coming for us no matter what. Get that through your brain. WTC1, the USS Kohl, Kobar Towers,9-11 and more were unprovoked. We are the "Great Satan" to them. "They" and "them" refer to the Muslim's who point to their Koran and Hadith and factually say "Its all there in black and white, it is our duty to spread Islam in any way we can until Shira Law is World law." That is what their world is based on and there is no denying that. You can cope with it by being a "useful idiot" to them, however, I prefer to be vigilant and suspicious--no matter how hard they cry about it. To appease is to be a coward. It is the easiest thing to do, so go ahead and do it.

 

[Flyer1015]

Please keep spewing your appeasment and Muslim love--that is until they nuke or bio us, and then it will be Bush's fault for provoking them.

No appeasement here, my 'spewing' is rebuttal to those ignorant who think all 1.5 billion Muslims are out to get them.

They are coming for us no matter what. Get that through your brain. WTC1, the USS Kohl, Kobar Towers,9-11 and more were unprovoked.

Hmmm, revisit your history. The US has had a very dark history in the Middle East. We've supported terrorist regimes when we saw fit. We supported the Iranian Shah and supplied weapons. We've supported the Muhajadeen to fight against the Russians. bin Laden folks were 'friends' back two decades ago, because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Unprovoked attacks? If only I wish I could say so. But they're not. Those attacks have been the consequences of the dirty involvement we've had in the Middle East for the past two-three decades.

Even TODAY... Bush supports the MEK terrorist group in Iraq. Why? Cause they provide intel to the US regarding Iran. So, OUR US troops guard/protect the MEK terrorist group to get the intel on Iran. See? Double standards. "Either you're with us, or your'e with the terrorists... unless the terrorists can help us, then they are with us too."

We are the "Great Satan" to them. "They" and "them" refer to the Muslim's who point to their Koran and Hadith and factually say "Its all there in black and white, it is our duty to spread Islam in any way we can until Shira Law is World law." That is what their world is based on and there is no denying that.

To merely believe people would fly planes into buildings simply so your as$ can be under Sharia law is ludicrous. Those people have serious issues with the United States, and they have serious issues with Israel. Those anthrax letters (after 9/11) said, 'Death to America, Death to Israel.' MOST of all this is political. Religion is the tool used to further their own political agendas. Bin Laden will do what's necessary to ensure his forces do as he tells them to. You'll note that countries like China, Brazil, Chile, New Zealand, etc, have been left alone by al-Qaeda. Largely, those countries have not been involved in f'ing up the middle east. Al-Qaeda has no interest in spreading Sharia Law all across the world. Far from it. Their hatred is based on three things: America, Israel, and those who support America (like England).

You can cope with it by being a "useful idiot" to them, however, I prefer to be vigilant and suspicious--no matter how hard they cry about it. To appease is to be a coward. It is the easiest thing to do, so go ahead and do it.

wtf?! I'M the one who has been saying "be vigilant" all along!

Again, who is this "them" that you speak of? Is this all 1.5 billion Muslims again?

My guard is up at all times and I am vigilant. If I see enough red flags raised in my mind, I'll take the right action. Just like PCL_128 did in his case. But I will not fear/distrust/hate *all* Muslims simply for being Muslims or speaking Arabic.

 

[Hvy]

Al-Qaeda has no interest in spreading Sharia Law all across the world.

Really? Then you are not listening to what they are saying. Do you know who Adam Gadan is? He is from Fresno California. He is a muslim extremist. He has been found guilty of treason in absentia. He is also Al Qaida's spokesman. I don't know why you haven't heard his statements because they have been all over the news for the past 4 years. Since you seem to be the one that doean't understand history (or current events for that matter) I suggest that you start paying attention to what Al Qaida's spokesman has told the world. "If you are not willing to accept islam as your religion...then we will kill you. The west must embrace islam as the one and only religion and allah as the one and only god."

That seems pretty clear to me. What part of his statement are you finding difficult to understand?

 

[Flyer1015]

Al-Qaeda has no interest in spreading Sharia Law all across the world.

Really? Then you are not listening to what they are saying. Do you know who Adam Gadan is? He is from Fresno California. He is a muslim extremist. He has been found guilty of treason in absentia. He is also Al Qaida's spokesman. I don't know why you haven't heard his statements because they have been all over the news for the past 4 years. Since you seem to be the one that doean't understand history (or current events for that matter) I suggest that you start paying attention to what Al Qaida's spokesman has told the world. "If you are not willing to accept islam as your religion...then we will kill you. The west must embrace islam as the one and only religion and allah as the one and only god."

That seems pretty clear to me. What part of his statement are you finding difficult to understand?

Adam Gadahn. *sigh*

Do you really think that if every single American was to become Muslim that al-Qaeda would leave as alone and peace would reign in the world??? Hell no!

That was one example of a video tape he released. Simple BS. Even if every American converted, al-Qaeda would still be after us.

Here is the crux of Adam and al-Qaeda's threats:

May 2007 Gadahn's video titled "Al-Qaeda Video Warning to US by American Adam Gadahn"

He listed five main actions that Bush and America must take in order to prevent future terrorist attacks.

1. "Pull every last one of your soldiers, spies, security advisors, trainers, attachés , ... out of every Muslim land from Afghanistan to Zanzibar ..."

2. End "all support and aid, military, political, economic, or otherwise, to the 56-plus apostate regimes of the Muslim world, and abandon them to their well-deserved fate ... "


3. "End all support, moral, military, economic, political, or otherwise, to the bastard state of Israel, and ban your citizens, Zionist Jews, Zionist Christians, and the rest from traveling to occupied Palestine or settling there. Even one penny of aid will be considered sufficient justification to continue the fight."


4. "... impose a blanket ban on all broadcasts to our region ..."


5. "Free all Muslim captives from your prisons, detention facilities, and concentration camps, regardless of whether they have been recipients of what you call a fair trial or not."


Note not once does he say "convert every American to Islam."

It's simple... cause that won't help. Al-Qaeda is bent on killing us, and the reasons are mostly political along with religion twists to suit their needs and goals.

Gadahn warned that "your failure to heed our demands and the demands of reason means that you and your people will experience things which will make you forget all about the horrors of September 11th, Afghanistan and Iraq and Virginia Tech."



P.S. I understand my history, just look at my previous post. Thank your past administrations for supporting terrorist regimes when it seemed to benefit. Came back to bite us in the as$ though, for sure.

 

[PCL_128]

Flyer1015, just curious: do you feel that we should stop our support of Israel in order to appease the islamo-fascists?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I agree and wonder why more emphasis hasn't been placed on determining why the Clinton Administration didn't do more to chase Bin Laden down.

...or the Bush administration. As the Clinton Administration was leaving, the Bushies were fully briefed.

the USS Cole bombing had happened only a few months before. What kept the "Decider" from ordering an attack on January 21, 2001? They had all the info....knew where the training camps were...

 

[Flyer1015]

Flyer1015, just curious: do you feel that we should stop our support of Israel in order to appease the islamo-fascists?

While I do think the foreign policy could use an overhaul, I do not think the solution is to 'give up' (or stop support) for any one country. And I include both Israel and Palestine in that statement.

Even if Israeli support stopped, it wouldn't appease the radicals. While they would love to see the US stop its support for Israel, that's just one among many 'demands' they have. The solution isn't to appease any group. No matter what resolution passes, there will be Israelis that will be angry, and there will be Palestinians that will be angry. The best we can do is continue to have talks and facilitate talks between Israel/Palestine for a map towards peace.

 

[Caveman]

Posted by Flyer1015 on a different thread:

"Hold up.

First, yes Michigan is really sucking this year. I seriously hope they do better!

Next, yes I am a Michigan alumni myself, having graduated very recently. That having been said, I've never said Detroit *itself* was a nice place to live. There are many slums within Detroit.

"Nice" places to live include Ann Arbor, Plymouth, Canton, Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, etc.

Only reason I bash Salem Oregon is cause it's in the middle of f'ing nowhere!

Yes, I know. I lived three months in McMinnville (not too far from Salem) during an internship at Evergreen Airlines. My GOD living in that place sucked. That's why I bash it."

Now I understand. At first I thought you were just insane. Now I know that you're just a snot nosed twenty-something that doesn't know jack about the real world. You're supposed to be a liberal at 25. Get back to me when you've had a chance to actually experience life and form your own opinions instead of letting some tenured political hack indoctrinate you on the evils of America.

 

[brainhurts]

No appeasement here, my 'spewing' is rebuttal to those ignorant who think all 1.5 billion Muslims are out to get them.



Hmmm, revisit your history. The US has had a very dark history in the Middle East. We've supported terrorist regimes when we saw fit. We supported the Iranian Shah and supplied weapons. We've supported the Muhajadeen to fight against the Russians. bin Laden folks were 'friends' back two decades ago, because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Unprovoked attacks? If only I wish I could say so. But they're not. Those attacks have been the consequences of the dirty involvement we've had in the Middle East for the past two-three decades.

Even TODAY... Bush supports the MEK terrorist group in Iraq. Why? Cause they provide intel to the US regarding Iran. So, OUR US troops guard/protect the MEK terrorist group to get the intel on Iran. See? Double standards. "Either you're with us, or your'e with the terrorists... unless the terrorists can help us, then they are with us too."





To merely believe people would fly planes into buildings simply so your as$ can be under Sharia law is ludicrous. Those people have serious issues with the United States, and they have serious issues with Israel. Those anthrax letters (after 9/11) said, 'Death to America, Death to Israel.' MOST of all this is political. Religion is the tool used to further their own political agendas. Bin Laden will do what's necessary to ensure his forces do as he tells them to. You'll note that countries like China, Brazil, Chile, New Zealand, etc, have been left alone by al-Qaeda. Largely, those countries have not been involved in f'ing up the middle east. Al-Qaeda has no interest in spreading Sharia Law all across the world. Far from it. Their hatred is based on three things: America, Israel, and those who support America (like England).



wtf?! I'M the one who has been saying "be vigilant" all along!

Again, who is this "them" that you speak of? Is this all 1.5 billion Muslims again?

My guard is up at all times and I am vigilant. If I see enough red flags raised in my mind, I'll take the right action. Just like PCL_128 did in his case. But I will not fear/distrust/hate *all* Muslims simply for being Muslims or speaking Arabic.

You are wrong on all points and to assume if we were to become more like New Zealand and Al Queida would leave us alone makes my case. My history is sound--yours is in the catagory of "useful idiot". I explained the term "they and them" perfectly:
"They" and "them" refer to the Muslim's who point to their Koran and Hadith and factually say "Its all there in black and white, it is our duty to spread Islam in any way we can until Shira Law is World law."
You are furthering your delusion by attempting to say Al Queida is simply political. Of course its political--there is no differentiation in Shira Law between political and religious. Go ask your Muslim girlfriend or Imam about that. Tool.
Happy 9-11. Congrats on your big victory.

 

[Flyer1015]

Now I understand. At first I thought you were just insane. Now I know that you're just a snot nosed twenty-something that doesn't know jack about the real world. You're supposed to be a liberal at 25. Get back to me when you've had a chance to actually experience life and form your own opinions instead of letting some tenured political hack indoctrinate you on the evils of America.

First, you didn't have to search my post history to find my age, you could have just asked me. Second, I see your point... in my 20s, I have no mental capacity to think anything political, and no judgement to vote on republicans/democrats? "You're suppose to be liberal at 25." yadda yadda yadda. In my case, age is irrelevant. I look at the issues, and see what side supports what. The way I see it, Bush has messed up too much.

You are wrong on all points and to assume if we were to become more like New Zealand and Al Queida would leave us alone makes my case.

Um, hello? Did you even read what I posted?! I'll quote myself from above:

Do you really think that if every single American was to become Muslim that al-Qaeda would leave as alone and peace would reign in the world??? Hell no!

That was one example of a video tape he released. Simple BS. Even if every American converted, al-Qaeda would still be after us.

Here is the crux of Adam and al-Qaeda's threats:

We are in agreement with the above. Al-Qaeda wouldn't leave us alone, even if every American was converted to Islam and if Sharia law was implemented.

My history is sound--yours is in the catagory of "useful idiot".

No, my history quotes are factual. Don't believe me? Look up the Iran-Contra affair for yourself. Google MEK terrorist group and see who has supported them in Iraq. Google the Afghani Muhajedeen and see who supported them to beat out Russia out of Afghanistan. Then, get back to me.

I explained the term "they and them" perfectly:
"They" and "them" refer to the Muslim's who point to their Koran and Hadith and factually say "Its all there in black and white, it is our duty to spread Islam in any way we can until Shira Law is World law."

Some of my Michigan Muslim friends showed me their Qu'ran copy w/ English translation, and there was nothing to suggest that Sharia Law should be implemented worldwide. Other than that, you are sadly mistaken if you think al-Qaeda would leave us alone if all Americans converted to Islam and/or Sharia law was implemented here.

You are furthering your delusion by attempting to say Al Queida is simply political. Of course its political--there is no differentiation in Shira Law between political and religious.

Again, see what I posted:

Al-Qaeda is bent on killing us, and the reasons are mostly political along with religion twists to suit their needs and goals.

Implementing Sharia Law as a law of the land is a political idealogy with religion twists. Which is exactly what I just said. Their reasons are political but with radical religion as motivation and 'justification.'

Go ask your Muslim girlfriend or Imam about that.

Just because I know many Muslim families from the Detroit MI area does not mean I have a Muslim girlfriend and an Imam.

I do not have a Muslim gf, nor do I have an Imam, but nice try!

Tool.

You know, I've realized something. ALL the namecalling on this thread has been from right-wing Republicans who have the opposing viewpoint from the ones I have.

It's cool to have opposing viewpoints, but I always wonder why it is the righties/Republicans/Bush-lovers who always end up name-calling.

Grow up.

Happy 9-11. Congrats on your big victory.

More ignorant statements. 9/11 hurt all of us as Americans. It was not a victory for any American. If anything, it was a 'victory' for al-Qaeda.

 

[brainhurts]

First, you didn't have to search my post history to find my age, you could have just asked me. Second, I see your point... in my 20s, I have no mental capacity to think anything political, and no judgement to vote on republicans/democrats? "You're suppose to be liberal at 25." yadda yadda yadda. In my case, age is irrelevant. I look at the issues, and see what side supports what. The way I see it, Bush has messed up too much.





Um, hello? Did you even read what I posted?! I'll quote myself from above:



We are in agreement with the above. Al-Qaeda wouldn't leave us alone, even if every American was converted to Islam and if Sharia law was implemented.



No, my history quotes are factual. Don't believe me? Look up the Iran-Contra affair for yourself. Google MEK terrorist group and see who has supported them in Iraq. Google the Afghani Muhajedeen and see who supported them to beat out Russia out of Afghanistan. Then, get back to me.




Some of my Michigan Muslim friends showed me their Qu'ran copy w/ English translation, and there was nothing to suggest that Sharia Law should be implemented worldwide. Other than that, you are sadly mistaken if you think al-Qaeda would leave us alone if all Americans converted to Islam and/or Sharia law was implemented here.



Again, see what I posted:



Implementing Sharia Law as a law of the land is a political idealogy with religion twists. Which is exactly what I just said. Their reasons are political but with radical religion as motivation and 'justification.'





Just because I know many Muslim families from the Detroit MI area does not mean I have a Muslim girlfriend and an Imam.

I do not have a Muslim gf, nor do I have an Imam, but nice try!



You know, I've realized something. ALL the namecalling on this thread has been from right-wing Republicans who have the opposing viewpoint from the ones I have.

It's cool to have opposing viewpoints, but I always wonder why it is the righties/Republicans/Bush-lovers who always end up name-calling.

Grow up.



More ignorant statements. 9/11 hurt all of us as Americans. It was not a victory for any American. If anything, it was a 'victory' for al-Qaeda.

Here is your quote clown boy:
You'll note that countries like China, Brazil, Chile, New Zealand, etc, have been left alone by al-Qaeda. Largely, those countries have not been involved in f'ing up the middle east. Al-Qaeda has no interest in spreading Sharia Law all across the world. Far from it. Their hatred is based on three things: America, Israel, and those who support America (like England).

I guess you did not read your own quote. I do not need to re hash Iran Contra. I lived it. You would like to reframe all history to suite yourself. There were other pressing matters in the world at the time and the need to fund our "grey" ops was not a joke. The outcome of those ops was the disarmament of the Soviet Union, and the brief period of peace that you probably had the luck of growing up in.
I am really sorry you have such thin skin. Calling you a tool was gentle. Did your Muslim friends show you the english translation of the Hadith? Why don't you do some research? The Hadith is the side book to the Koran to help guide you through that fantasy of Mohammed's "diviner of dreams" mostly written and reshaped 50 to 150 years after his death. Since the Koran was so messed up they came up with the Hadith. It is very specific on Shira law. Why am I wasting my time with a clown? Hey, if you head over right now, unannounced, and barge through your Muslim friends door, you will probably find them all in little party hats having a 9-11 celebration!

 

[Flyer1015]

Here is your quote clown boy:
You'll note that countries like China, Brazil, Chile, New Zealand, etc, have been left alone by al-Qaeda. Largely, those countries have not been involved in f'ing up the middle east. Al-Qaeda has no interest in spreading Sharia Law all across the world. Far from it. Their hatred is based on three things: America, Israel, and those who support America (like England).

I guess you did not read your own quote.

And I still stand by that statement above. Note the key words "their hatred" is based on those three things: USA, Israel, those who support (USA). I also think spreading Sharia Law *across* the *entire* world is something they aren't interested in, in the sense they know they can't do that. They are, however, interested in pressing Sharia law into England, USA, and Israel if they could get away with it. That's what it boils down to, the countries they hate. Until the day comes when al-Qaeda starts blowing up China, Japan, New Zealand, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, and pretty much every other nation, THEN I'll believe that they want to spread Sharia Law across the entire world. So far, their actions do not dictate that is the case. Their hatred and violence is for political reasons with religious twists.

I do not need to re hash Iran Contra. I lived it. You would like to reframe all history to suite yourself. There were other pressing matters in the world at the time and the need to fund our "grey" ops was not a joke.

I realize it wasn't a joke, but it wasn't a joke either to sell weapons to the Iranians. So basically, it's okay to support a terrorist regime when you deem it fit to benefit you? I love the Bush quote, "Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." What an arrogant double-standard whammy!

The outcome of those ops was the disarmament of the Soviet Union, and the brief period of peace that you probably had the luck of growing up in.

"End justifies the means" argument?

I am really sorry you have such thin skin. Calling you a tool was gentle.

Namecalling is immature at best. You'll note that while I disagree with many here, I have not resorted to namecalling.

Did your Muslim friends show you the english translation of the Hadith? Why don't you do some research? The Hadith is the side book to the Koran to help guide you through that fantasy of Mohammed's "diviner of dreams" mostly written and reshaped 50 to 150 years after his death. Since the Koran was so messed up they came up with the Hadith. It is very specific on Shira law.

Wow. It's clear you don't have any Muslim friends. Otherwise, you would have known that hadiths are merely oral traditions relating to Muhammed. It was only a 'book' after people decided to write some down. But hadiths themselves are not a part of the Koran. Anytime you have oral sayings put down in book, they are easy to lose true meaning of. The Koran wasn't messed up, but quite a few hadiths were, since they were based on oral traditions, and have been easily misconstrued. Why don't you find me the hadith in particular, that you are referring to?

Why am I wasting my time with a clown? Hey, if you head over right now, unannounced, and barge through your Muslim friends door, you will probably find them all in little party hats having a 9-11 celebration!

Actually, did just have lunch at a Muslim family friends of mine. Guy served two tours (if that's what you military guys call it), one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. I looked around, but found no party hats with any 9/11 celebration. I did, however, find US flags, and some pics of him from his military unit.

 

[Shaheen]

We had a bunch of these SOBs at our flight school..... I suggest that it is not a good idea to impose our values and morals on people like this.....

I know, I know..... There are always exceptions and so forth, BUT.....

The standard Saudi we had at the school was the most lazy, lying, cheating, shady, dangerous person I can think of (and these guys were already airline employees.) These a-holes actually think it is a type of bonus with Allah to pull one over on a "nonbeliever" Never assume that they share the same morals as we do. They DO NOT treat women in an honorable way, and they think it is awesome to be dishonest and do harm to a subhuman "nonbeliever"

Don't make the mistake that these guys have ANY of the same values the avg. American does. These people are raised in a very different world, and they totally take advantage of the fact that we always assume that others have good intentions. I can tell you from personal experience-these people from this culture are not the innocent little lambs many would have us believe they are.

-DO NOT TRUST ANY OF THESE GUYS!!!!!
-Let the authorities sort out suspicious behavior!

Have to agree with you on this. In my days as a CFI, I trained many from Saudi and other ME Countries...not one of them was any different. They all, however, wanted to cover their women from head to toe, but were always trying to find the best way to lure a North Dakota blondie for a night out!

They wanted to bust all the flight rules and firmly believed that it was FINE to do that to a 'subhuman' white person!

As much as I believe that the woman on that flight was wrong in her assumptions, I also firmly believe that those men of ME origin should simply not speak Arabic out loud in public places. You're here no...learn and speak English.

It will help you - immigrants - assimilate!

And no, I'm not originally from here, and learned my English well!

 

[Shaheen]

And yet you didn't answer my question. If there were 3 arab muslims lined up, and you knew that 1 of them would kill you if you turned your back to him, would you turn your back to ANY of them?

Flawed logic really.

Same could be said about British, Pakistanis, Israelis, Mexicans, Canadians, Japanese, Koreans, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Jews, etc. Get my drift?

 

[brainhurts]

And I still stand by that statement above. Note the key words "their hatred" is based on those three things: USA, Israel, those who support (USA). I also think spreading Sharia Law *across* the *entire* world is something they aren't interested in, in the sense they know they can't do that. They are, however, interested in pressing Sharia law into England, USA, and Israel if they could get away with it. That's what it boils down to, the countries they hate. Until the day comes when al-Qaeda starts blowing up China, Japan, New Zealand, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, and pretty much every other nation, THEN I'll believe that they want to spread Sharia Law across the entire world. So far, their actions do not dictate that is the case. Their hatred and violence is for political reasons with religious twists.



I realize it wasn't a joke, but it wasn't a joke either to sell weapons to the Iranians. So basically, it's okay to support a terrorist regime when you deem it fit to benefit you? I love the Bush quote, "Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." What an arrogant double-standard whammy!




"End justifies the means" argument?



Namecalling is immature at best. You'll note that while I disagree with many here, I have not resorted to namecalling.



Wow. It's clear you don't have any Muslim friends. Otherwise, you would have known that hadiths are merely oral traditions relating to Muhammed. It was only a 'book' after people decided to write some down. But hadiths themselves are not a part of the Koran. Anytime you have oral sayings put down in book, they are easy to lose true meaning of. The Koran wasn't messed up, but quite a few hadiths were, since they were based on oral traditions, and have been easily misconstrued. Why don't you find me the hadith in particular, that you are referring to?




Actually, did just have lunch at a Muslim family friends of mine. Guy served two tours (if that's what you military guys call it), one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. I looked around, but found no party hats with any 9/11 celebration. I did, however, find US flags, and some pics of him from his military unit.

Clown,
You are a Muslim apologist and your long rambling / fact deficient/ half truth posts are a waste of time. For anyone trying to follow this nonsence, here is a quick rundown on the Hadith from--you guessed it--Wilkopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

Just Google Hadith and you will see how clown boy clouds facts and shades outright truth about what Muslims are up against in deciphering their own religion. If they can't figure it out--how can we? Hell its hard figuring out Christian theology, but at least the bottom line there is "Love thy neighbor" as oposed to "Kill thy infidel neighbors--oh and its OK to rape his wife before you kill her because she is not a Muslim"

 

[Flyer1015]

Clown,
You are a Muslim apologist and your long rambling / fact deficient/ half truth posts are a waste of time.

I am no apologist. I simply call things as I see them. Long rambling? Yeah, I bring up valid points, and address every single right-wing hatred/fear based idealogy. Half truth? You still haven't looked up the history of US actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan for the last 2-3 decades, have you? "Waste of time".... only cause you disagree with it and don't have anything valid to fight back with.

For anyone trying to follow this nonsence, here is a quick rundown on the Hadith from--you guessed it--Wilkopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

First of all, it's Wikipedia. Second, that link already confirms what I've already said: the hadiths are oral sayings that have been recorded over time, they are not the direct word of God.

Just Google Hadith and you will see how clown boy clouds facts and shades outright truth about what Muslims are up against in deciphering their own religion. If they can't figure it out--how can we?

Hadiths were sayings that were passed down orally for more than one hundred years before even being written down. And yes, that was mentioned in that Wikipedia article. It was only hundred years (and even longer) later, that they were finally put down on paper. As history has shown, things said today will not be the same thing that will be put in writing hundred years from now. Some things bound to change over time, and oral sayings are changed by the people over time as they see fit. So, scholars can point out that the Koran is the word of Islam, and not the hadiths. Know your history before blasting on things you have no idea about.

Hell its hard figuring out Christian theology, but at least the bottom line there is "Love thy neighbor" as oposed to "Kill thy infidel neighbors--oh and its OK to rape his wife before you kill her because she is not a Muslim"

There you go again... comparing mainline Christianity to radical Islam extremist theology. Why don't you compare mainline Christianity with mainline Islam? You should research more before blasting religions. I certainly have researched into religions I found fascinating. Did you know Islam is one of the only religions that require a person to give up a certain percentage of their salary for charity? That's one of the five pillars of Islam. I can't recall any other religion physically stating that a part of your salary must go to charity to benefit mankind. Like I said, research other religions, and you'll be more educated, if anything. That 'love thy neighbor' idealogy exists in mainline Islam, also. Obviously, that's not the case for radical extremist Islam.

 

[Flyer1015]

Have to agree with you on this. In my days as a CFI, I trained many from Saudi and other ME Countries...not one of them was any different. They all, however, wanted to cover their women from head to toe, but were always trying to find the best way to lure a North Dakota blondie for a night out!

They wanted to bust all the flight rules and firmly believed that it was FINE to do that to a 'subhuman' white person!

As much as I believe that the woman on that flight was wrong in her assumptions, I also firmly believe that those men of ME origin should simply not speak Arabic out loud in public places. You're here no...learn and speak English.

It will help you - immigrants - assimilate!

And no, I'm not originally from here, and learned my English well!

Like you, I immigrated here and learned English, no problem.

But who are you to say whether someone should or shouldn't speak their own language, if they want to?

Last I checked, the first amendment is still in place, and freedom of speech is still a right we have.