Compass or SkyWest

[XPOO]

What is "Compass material" ?

I had to laugh at some of the posts in this thread.

As if non-rev priority on outsourced metal and hot flight attendants are things to be considered when deciding which way to steer one's career at a pivotal time in the industry.

I'm a neutral vote here: poor2thecore, if you are single mid 20s and don't care about bases as you've mentioned, I think you would be absolutely crazy to not go to Compass over SkyWest in this pair of choices.

Nothing wrong with SKW but CPZ is about to get a new contract and the flow movement will most likely be attrition that is proportionally unrivaled by any other airline maybe in history. You just don't see a quarter of a seniority list disappear in a matter of months, and you ought to try to take advantage of that because it is about to happen.

Well, the original poster asked this question:

"Say you had a class date at Compass and an interview lined up with SkyWest. What would you choose if you eventually got a class at SkyWest as well? Bases weren't really an issue (can move wherever), single, not much debt, mid-20's."

Nowhere in here did he state that he was just looking to make below minimum wage as a regional FO for any airline that he could quickly upgrade to left seat, even at lower than standard captain wages if he had to, just to get an easy ticket to a mainline gig. Had he said that originally then we could have killed this thread about 3 pages ago. I actually thought he was being serious about judging the overall pros and cons. Since we now know all he wants is the fastest route possible to mainline gig, this makes him bonafide Compass material.

 

[poor2thecore]

Well, the original poster asked this question:

"Say you had a class date at Compass and an interview lined up with SkyWest. What would you choose if you eventually got a class at SkyWest as well? Bases weren't really an issue (can move wherever), single, not much debt, mid-20's."

Nowhere in here did he state that he was just looking to make below minimum wage as a regional FO for any airline that he could quickly upgrade to left seat, even at lower than standard captain wages if he had to, just to get an easy ticket to a mainline gig. Had he said that originally then we could have killed this thread about 3 pages ago. I actually thought he was being serious about judging the overall pros and cons. Since we now know all he wants is the fastest route possible to mainline gig, this makes him bonafide Compass material.

That's not entirely true actually. But, isn't that kind of the point? You asked a few posts ago what I had for pros regarding Compass. I told you. What's up eith all the defensive posts?

 

[russtgol]

What is "Compass material" ?

I had to laugh at some of the posts in this thread.

As if non-rev priority on outsourced metal and hot flight attendants are things to be considered when deciding which way to steer one's career at a pivotal time in the industry.

I'm a neutral vote here: poor2thecore, if you are single mid 20s and don't care about bases as you've mentioned, I think you would be absolutely crazy to not go to Compass over SkyWest in this pair of choices.

Nothing wrong with SKW but CPZ is about to get a new contract and the flow movement will most likely be attrition that is proportionally unrivaled by any other airline maybe in history. You just don't see a quarter of a seniority list disappear in a matter of months, and you ought to try to take advantage of that because it is about to happen.

What new contract??

 

[General Lee]

That's not entirely true actually. But, isn't that kind of the point? You asked a few posts ago what I had for pros regarding Compass. I told you. What's up eith all the defensive posts?

The SKW guys are proud of their airline, and they have a pretty good deal going, until they have to start parking tons of 50 seaters. Scope clauses prevent them from getting larger planes,(larger than 76 seats) so they are stuck. They may not get additional 76 seaters either if they don't go for what the mainline airlines are asking for either. But, they have some great flying and great bases, but I would think those are fairly senior, and tough to get into for maybe years. So, knowing that you might get pushed out to MSP or ORD anyway, you may want to look at CPZ. Compass has guaranteed 120 Capts leaving per year for the next few, meaning better lines and QOL sooner. The E175 seems like a nice plane to fly, and the flying variety is getting better with the additional West Coast flying.

If your desire is to fly where you want to live on the West Coast, maybe go for SKW. (Even though that will probably be on a prop initially or a 50 seat RJ out of MSP for a bit). If you want faster progression on a larger jet with an aim for eventually getting PIC and leaving faster towards a mainline or LCC job, then I would suggest Compass. And maybe the interview process will be more comfortable too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Quack]

XPOO...why so defensive...SkyW is a good company and believe me we're all happy that you're gonna stay there the rest of your career from tone of your writing, but it's still a regional, still dependent on the mother airlines handing out scraps to the dogs. I do think that long term...LONG TERM...skywest beats compass hands down. Better contract, better qol, more job security, but times are a changing and people may not spend 10+ years at the regionals anymore. It's fine to defend your company, but putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change anything. Get it, get out, move on...that's my .02$. And yes compass will have a new contract sometime mid Dec, no extensions on the arbitration.

 

[XPOO]

Not defensive. I get it, SkyWest isn't for everyone. Again, good luck. I hope the industry stays exactly the way it is now for the rest of humanity and conditions never change.

 

[DYLIN]

Nowhere in here did he state that he was just looking to make below minimum wage as a regional FO for any airline that he could quickly upgrade to left seat, even at lower than standard captain wages if he had to, just to get an easy ticket to a mainline gig. I actually thought he was being serious about judging the overall pros and cons. Since we now know all he wants is the fastest route possible to mainline gig, this makes him bonafide Compass material.

If you're going to post things that are factually incorrect then someone is going to have to come on here and correct you.

"just looking to make below minimum wage as a regional FO"

First year/second year pay:
Brasilia $22/$31
CRJ-900 $22/39

Compass $25/36
(they have new pay rates coming out in two weeks; might be slightly higher)

"even at lower than standard captain wages"

Third year/fifth year captain pay:
Brasilia $50/$53
CRJ-900 $69/$73

Compass $69/$74


What is the lower paying airline here? Because I don't think it's the one you thought it was.

Haven't considered work rules etc. but they are quite comparable not considering the improvements that the Compass CBA will likely have in two weeks time.

 

[DYLIN]

What new contract??

Contract may have been a confusing word to use; contract as in pilot contract/collective bargaining agreement in this case.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

What about flow back? If the FED succeeds is imploding the dollar, it could make 2008 look like a just another bad day on Wall St. You just don't ever know.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

One thing also to consider...

Being a regional carrier in this day and age with your eggs all in one basket can be a huge issue. Due to the tendencies of the Majors to do all kinds of knee jerk things with feed, who knows what Compass could look like a few years down the road.

 

[XPOO]

If you're going to post things that are factually incorrect then someone is going to have to come on here and correct you.

"just looking to make below minimum wage as a regional FO"

First year/second year pay:
Brasilia $22/$31
CRJ-900 $22/39

Compass $25/36
(they have new pay rates coming out in two weeks; might be slightly higher)

"even at lower than standard captain wages"

Third year/fifth year captain pay:
Brasilia $50/$53
CRJ-900 $69/$73

Compass $69/$74


What is the lower paying airline here? Because I don't think it's the one you thought it was.

Haven't considered work rules etc. but they are quite comparable not considering the improvements that the Compass CBA will likely have in two weeks time.

Not sure where you are getting your info, but you're slightly off.

F/O 1st/2nd year: EMB - 22/32 , CRJ9 - 22/40
Capt 3rd/5th year: EMB - 52/55, CRJ9 - 71/75

But I should have just let a pilot correct you instead.

 

[Ops check good]

Not sure where you are getting your info, but you're slightly off.

F/O 1st/2nd year: EMB - 22/32 , CRJ9 - 22/40
Capt 3rd/5th year: EMB - 52/55, CRJ9 - 71/75

But I should have just let a pilot answer the original posters question instead.

no reason this thread should be this long

 

[PBRstreetgang]

XPOO...why so defensive...SkyW is a good company and believe me we're all happy that you're gonna stay there the rest of your career from tone of your writing, but it's still a regional, still dependent on the mother airlines handing out scraps to the dogs. I do think that long term...LONG TERM...skywest beats compass hands down. Better contract, better qol, more job security, but times are a changing and people may not spend 10+ years at the regionals anymore. It's fine to defend your company, but putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change anything. Get it, get out, move on...that's my .02$. And yes compass will have a new contract sometime mid Dec, no extensions on the arbitration.

Many lifers at SKYW are indeed worried about the future, aircraft orders in the hundreds, but the pilot pipeline into SKYW has a serious restriction, as in not many pilots want to come to an airline that has a 2-3 year reserve before being able to hold a line, much less upgrade. Upgrade in the EMB, FAT base is 6.5 years. SKYW's challenges will be almost exclusively based on personnel, and the ability to staff flight ops. Bid packages minimum are running at 87.5 hrs aprox, and many bids are approaching 100 hrs block, even the simplest of the simple can see the problem, add the new rest rules into the mix and SKYW will have an immediate issue in the new year.
Scheduling had predicated the block hour abuse based upon the calendar year totals, driving the peak hours to 100 during the summer and allowing the non peak portion of the year to drop below 83.333, keeping the total slightly below 1000. Now with the rolling block, attrition and regulatory changes, coupled with SGUs inability to change spells a rolling puppet show.
It's getting interesting, fast, January should provide some Shakespearian grade comedy.
Oddly I am getting a chuckle from it all......

 

[DYLIN]

Not sure where you are getting your info, but you're slightly off.

F/O 1st/2nd year: EMB - 22/32 , CRJ9 - 22/40
Capt 3rd/5th year: EMB - 52/55, CRJ9 - 71/75

But I should have just let a pilot correct you instead.

Okay, so the bottom line still is, the pay is comparable.

And it's really a lot more at Compass because there's been a big chunk of the seniority list there that was on captain pay by the time they hit year #3 pay, which apparently at SKW at this point in time and probably going forward for a while, gets one the right seat of the EMB or CRJ but not the left seat of anything.

So your previous referring to Compass as minimum wage and lower than standard captain pay etc. is completely irrelevant in comparison to Skywest.

 

[russtgol]

Many lifers at SKYW are indeed worried about the future, aircraft orders in the hundreds, but the pilot pipeline into SKYW has a serious restriction, as in not many pilots want to come to an airline that has a 2-3 year reserve before being able to hold a line, much less upgrade. Upgrade in the EMB, FAT base is 6.5 years. SKYW's challenges will be almost exclusively based on personnel, and the ability to staff flight ops. Bid packages minimum are running at 87.5 hrs aprox, and many bids are approaching 100 hrs block, even the simplest of the simple can see the problem, add the new rest rules into the mix and SKYW will have an immediate issue in the new year.
Scheduling had predicated the block hour abuse based upon the calendar year totals, driving the peak hours to 100 during the summer and allowing the non peak portion of the year to drop below 83.333, keeping the total slightly below 1000. Now with the rolling block, attrition and regulatory changes, coupled with SGUs inability to change spells a rolling puppet show.
It's getting interesting, fast, January should provide some Shakespearian grade comedy.
Oddly I am getting a chuckle from it all......

From your post in the other thread..
"Stolen from the Skywest SAPA forums:
Attrition rates:
"Past 6 months 87 pilots or about 1 leaving every 50 hrs
Past 3 months 55 pilots or about 1 leaving every 40 hrs
Past 1 months 25 pilots or about 1 leaving every 30 hrs
Past 1 week 9 pilots or about 1 leaving every 20 hrs

So if every one is leaving that dump why would it take that long to hold a line and/or upgrade?

 

[XPOO]

Many lifers at SKYW are indeed worried about the future, aircraft orders in the hundreds, but the pilot pipeline into SKYW has a serious restriction, as in not many pilots want to come to an airline that has a 2-3 year reserve before being able to hold a line, much less upgrade. Upgrade in the EMB, FAT base is 6.5 years. SKYW's challenges will be almost exclusively based on personnel, and the ability to staff flight ops. Bid packages minimum are running at 87.5 hrs aprox, and many bids are approaching 100 hrs block, even the simplest of the simple can see the problem, add the new rest rules into the mix and SKYW will have an immediate issue in the new year.
Scheduling had predicated the block hour abuse based upon the calendar year totals, driving the peak hours to 100 during the summer and allowing the non peak portion of the year to drop below 83.333, keeping the total slightly below 1000. Now with the rolling block, attrition and regulatory changes, coupled with SGUs inability to change spells a rolling puppet show.
It's getting interesting, fast, January should provide some Shakespearian grade comedy.
Oddly I am getting a chuckle from it all......

As you posted in another forum:

Stolen from the Skywest SAPA forums:
Attrition rates:
"Past 6 months 87 pilots or about 1 leaving every 50 hrs
Past 3 months 55 pilots or about 1 leaving every 40 hrs
Past 1 months 25 pilots or about 1 leaving every 30 hrs
Past 1 week 9 pilots or about 1 leaving every 20 hrs"

So which is it? Is there attrition? Or isnt there?

 

[Nevets]

From your post in the other thread..
"Stolen from the Skywest SAPA forums:
Attrition rates:
"Past 6 months 87 pilots or about 1 leaving every 50 hrs
Past 3 months 55 pilots or about 1 leaving every 40 hrs
Past 1 months 25 pilots or about 1 leaving every 30 hrs
Past 1 week 9 pilots or about 1 leaving every 20 hrs

So if every one is leaving that dump why would it take that long to hold a line and/or upgrade?

Doesn't that depend on where the bulk of the attrition is happening on your seniority list and change in fleet count going forward? Seems relevant here since CPZ has almost guaranteed attrition happening at the very top of their list.

Also, since someone else brought it up earlier, there is something to be said about going to a union versus non-union airline. Maybe that's a discussion for another thread but definitely something to be considered here.

 

[XPOO]

Okay, so the bottom line still is, the pay is comparable.

And it's really a lot more at Compass because there's been a big chunk of the seniority list there that was on captain pay by the time they hit year #3 pay, which apparently at SKW at this point in time and probably going forward for a while, gets one the right seat of the EMB or CRJ but not the left seat of anything.

So your previous referring to Compass as minimum wage and lower than standard captain pay etc. is completely irrelevant in comparison to Skywest.

I was perpetuating the initial poster's observation that Compass had a cost structure that was positioned better than SkyWest for future opportunities. I disagree. Compass flies a grand total of 42 aircraft for 1 carrier. SkyWest is flying 330 aircraft for 5 carriers. SkyWest has Compass beat on economy of scale alone. SkyWest flies more Brasilias than Compass has total aircraft in their fleet. SkyWest can also buy aircraft cheaper than Compass can, heck they can buy them cheaper than any other North American airline can. The only "competitiveness" Compass holds over SkyWest is their labor cost. They'll have to hope Delta will buy the airplanes and let them fly them while constantly rebidding on that flying every two or three years. So if you are telling me Compass pays more than SkyWest now, then you're also saying Compass is no longer competitive with SkyWest on labor costs either.

 

[XPOO]

Doesn't that depend on where the bulk of the attrition is happening on your seniority list and change in fleet count going forward? Seems relevant here since CPZ has almost guaranteed attrition happening at the very top of their list.

Also, since someone else brought it up earlier, there is something to be said about going to a union versus non-union airline. Maybe that's a discussion for another thread but definitely something to be considered here.

Good point. Compass pay will actually be less than stated since you will be giving a portion of it to union dues. At SkyWest, the money you make is the money you keep. No dues. Thank you for reminding everyone.

 

[russtgol]

Doesn't that depend on where the bulk of the attrition is happening on your seniority list and change in fleet count going forward? Seems relevant here since CPZ has almost guaranteed attrition happening at the very top of their list.

Also, since someone else brought it up earlier, there is something to be said about going to a union versus non-union airline. Maybe that's a discussion for another thread but definitely something to be considered here.

I'm sure it's safe to assume line holders are leaving.. I believe I read somewhere they have 300 firm orders..