Compass or SkyWest

[russtgol]

Doesn't that depend on where the bulk of the attrition is happening on your seniority list and change in fleet count going forward? Seems relevant here since CPZ has almost guaranteed attrition happening at the very top of their list.

Also, since someone else brought it up earlier, there is something to be said about going to a union versus non-union airline. Maybe that's a discussion for another thread but definitely something to be considered here.

As a side note: All the threads that ask opinions "should I go to this airline or that one" not once did someone say go to X airline cuz they are union..

 

[DYLIN]

They'll have to hope Delta will buy the airplanes and let them fly them while constantly rebidding on that flying every two or three years. So if you are telling me Compass pays more than SkyWest now, then you're also saying Compass is no longer competitive with SkyWest on labor costs either.

No, there's no constantly bidding every 2 years about it. That's not how it works.

As for size, it's a lot more likely that SKW will shrink or stagnate than grow, going forward. It's simply in the section of the industry where that will continue. A smaller carrier on the other hand, has no shrinking to do at all -- if it exists at all, it'll either maintain the fleet size or grow.

 

[DYLIN]

Good point. Compass pay will actually be less than stated since you will be giving a portion of it to union dues. At SkyWest, the money you make is the money you keep. No dues. Thank you for reminding everyone.

Besides a concise agreement in which to work under, know what the approximately $40-80 a month in dues got 60 captains a few years ago and will probably get another 120 shortly?

A job at Delta.

 

[russtgol]

Besides a concise agreement in which to work under, know what the approximately $40-80 a month in dues got 60 captains a few years ago and will probably get another 120 shortly?

A job at Delta.

You got hired at Delta? Or are you claming fame that others did?

 

[DYLIN]

You got hired at Delta? Or are you claming fame that others did?

I'm referring to the flow agreement that was re-negotiated [with dues money] after the sale of CPZ.

 

[Nevets]

Good point. Compass pay will actually be less than stated since you will be giving a portion of it to union dues. At SkyWest, the money you make is the money you keep. No dues. Thank you for reminding everyone.

Yes, but there is a stigma for those who don't pay union dues and yet reap the rewards of all the safety systems pushed through fruition, not to mention things like CASS and CREWPASS. And I haven't even mentioned other benefits in legal disputes with the company (ask DD about that one), a dispute resolution process that includes a neutral third party, representation before the FAA or NTSB, medical assistance, insurance benefits, collective bargaining, your own interests represented in any merger, etc. And keep in mind, that all union dues are tax deductible. To me, just the safety aspect alone is enough for me to want to contribute to that cause. But to each their own.

I'm sure it's safe to assume line holders are leaving.. I believe I read somewhere they have 300 firm orders..

Maybe but we are comparing two specific airlines. At one, we need to make assumptions on whether they are line holders or not and whether they are captain or FO and whether it will change going forward. At the other, we know that the top 300 out of 500 have the opportunity to go to DAL.

As for firm orders, again, that depends on what the change in fleet count is going forward.

As a side note: All the threads that ask opinions "should I go to this airline or that one" not once did someone say go to X airline cuz they are union..

I don't know but someone else brought it up on this one before I did. And it's a valid point anyway.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

As you posted in another forum:

Stolen from the Skywest SAPA forums:
Attrition rates:
"Past 6 months 87 pilots or about 1 leaving every 50 hrs
Past 3 months 55 pilots or about 1 leaving every 40 hrs
Past 1 months 25 pilots or about 1 leaving every 30 hrs
Past 1 week 9 pilots or about 1 leaving every 20 hrs"

So which is it? Is there attrition? Or isnt there?

The attrition is almost exclusively at the lower levels of the seniority list. Plenty of movement, where you can go from pure crap to just mostly crap.
When the bulk of the deliveries will be scheduled, many if not most will be replacements for the 50s. This whole scenario is time driven. Most pilots will give 2 weeks notice, while the training takes 6-8 weeks add a checkride or IOE failure and it becomes more than a nightmare, a gap, a very expensive gap, if your existing crews are at FAR maximums already. I didn't pick up flying at double time and won't at any price, just a short term enabling process. I have been watching this unfold and it is getting interesting.

 

[DYLIN]

Good point. Compass pay will actually be less than stated since you will be giving a portion of it to union dues. At SkyWest, the money you make is the money you keep. No dues. Thank you for reminding everyone.

Now that I have a few more minutes to type, let me tell you why I find your remark above completely disgusting, and indicative of someone who really doesn't understand the big picture.

If you do not know the history of it, pilot unions in this industry formed for safety reasons out of necessity. If the airmail pilot a few days before you was going to be fired unless he tried to get the mail delivered, through some valley in low IFR with no instrument flight rules to speak of, and he crashed trying to get the job done, how completely absurd it would be to expect another pilot to try the same, in the same scenario. Yet that is what occurred. Thus, formed to create safety standards.

Over the years, of course additional issues arose. Job protections, working conditions not directly relating to saving one's own life but making the workplace safer, and so on.

Union dues have paid for so much over the years in the way of safety advances, in the form of pushing for the development of new pieces of technology such as TCAS to pushing for new regulations related to safety issues. MELs, rest regs, the list is long.

So the reason your comment above makes you look like a total d!ck is because any pilot group that does not contribute to this overall effort ought not to brag about it or be proud of it, but rather, appreciate the effort of others. I bet if a Skywest pilot had a great grandfather that flew airmail and DC-3s and Constellations back in the day, he'd be disappointed that his great grandson is not part of a union to help maintain what took so very long to build up.

I know a lot of Skywest pilots and none of them have the attitude you have regarding this issue. None of them smugly tout that the money they make is the money they keep, because they do realize that things could go the the other way at any time and when they're asked for a paycut there will not be a CBA to point to.

You ought to cease contributing to this thread, because it is now abundantly obvious that you have no interest in offering the pros/cons that you chastised others about not giving a few posts back. You have contributed some misinformation, slanted opinions, and clearly just don't "get it."

 

[PBRstreetgang]

"I know a lot of Skywest pilots and none of them have the attitude you have regarding this issue. "

He/it is a dispatcher, who comes here trolling in between WoW tourneys. You bit and took his line to the proof test limit. He/it is a semi retarded, cubicle dwelling
pogue, who is jealous that his relevance to aviation is the same as teats on a boar hog.

 

[DYLIN]

He/it is a dispatcher, who comes here trolling in between WoW tourneys. You bit and took his line to the proof test limit. He/it is a semi retarded, cubicle dwelling
pogue, who is jealous that his relevance to aviation is the same as teats on a boar hog.

LOL. You have a way with words.

I did see he was dispatch but didn't mind taking five minutes out of my continued sitting reserve and no flying to attempt to shove a few facts into his or her head.

But more importantly, to give the original poster of this thread accurate information to make an important decision, which was possibly impeded by this dispatcher who is as relevant to this discussion as teats on a boar hog.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

He/it is a dispatcher, who comes here trolling in between WoW tourneys. You bit and took his line to the proof test limit. He/it is a semi retarded, cubicle dwelling
pogue, who is jealous that his relevance to aviation is the same as teats on a boar hog.

You are no different than your buddy Genital "lee" Warts...

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You are no different than your buddy Genital "lee" Warts...

It is you and he who are alike, isn't it time for your 3 period Special Ed class?

 

[Mercyful Fate]

It is you and he who are alike, isn't it time for your 3 period Special Ed class?

Weak.

Try again

 

[XPOO]

Yes, but there is a stigma for those who don't pay union dues and yet reap the rewards of all the safety systems pushed through fruition, not to mention things like CASS and CREWPASS. And I haven't even mentioned other benefits in legal disputes with the company (ask DD about that one), a dispute resolution process that includes a neutral third party, representation before the FAA or NTSB, medical assistance, insurance benefits, collective bargaining, your own interests represented in any merger, etc. And keep in mind, that all union dues are tax deductible. To me, just the safety aspect alone is enough for me to want to contribute to that cause. But to each their own.

This is your "riding the coattails" argument right? What would you call two seperate groups of pilots who pay union dues being kept afloat for years by a group of pilots that don't pay union dues, so that they can continue to pay dues to two useless unions? Sounds like riding the coattails to me.

Or maybe we could just use transitive property? The SkyWest pilots continue to create revenue that keeps ExpressJet and ASA pilots employed. Therefore, aren't they helping to keep union dues flowing in a roundabout way?

 

[russtgol]

The attrition is almost exclusively at the lower levels of the seniority list. Plenty of movement, where you can go from pure crap to just mostly crap.
When the bulk of the deliveries will be scheduled, many if not most will be replacements for the 50s. This whole scenario is time driven. Most pilots will give 2 weeks notice, while the training takes 6-8 weeks add a checkride or IOE failure and it becomes more than a nightmare, a gap, a very expensive gap, if your existing crews are at FAR maximums already. I didn't pick up flying at double time and won't at any price, just a short term enabling process. I have been watching this unfold and it is getting interesting.

If there is plenty of movement why did you say it takes "2-3 year reserve before being able to hold a line"

 

[Nevets]

This is your "riding the coattails" argument right? What would you call two seperate groups of pilots who pay union dues being kept afloat for years by a group of pilots that don't pay union dues, so that they can continue to pay dues to two useless unions? Sounds like riding the coattails to me.

Or maybe we could just use transitive property? The SkyWest pilots continue to create revenue that keeps ExpressJet and ASA pilots employed. Therefore, aren't they helping to keep union dues flowing in a roundabout way?

You figured it out. This is ALPA's master plan to make Skywest airlines fund the unprofitable XJT and therefore directly bankroll their union dues! You are being trick fukked!

Anyway, yes. The list is very long. Things that every pilot from GA to NASA take for granted have at least some thanks due for pilot unions. Things like ALS or the basic T pattern. And even for other non-pilot airmen like yourself take advantage of things like ASAP thanks to pilot unions. That is riding coat tails. The pilots of Skywest and XJT both just do their job safely and per our FOMs. There is no difference on what we do that affects profitability. So if management hasn't been able to do their job in making both sides profitable, it does not equate to one group paying the other's wages. That is the classic correlative based fallacy.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Compass, just so you don't have to get acars messages from xpoo.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Compass, just so you don't have to get acars messages from xpoo.

That's the most valid argument for Compass I've ever heard!:beer:

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Funny you guys that make fun of the dispatchers..You guys are all the types that call your dispatcher in a panic asking for help when you dropped your keys, or your fleshlight fell out of your overnight bag on a swap...

 

[DYLIN]

Funny you guys that make fun of the dispatchers..You guys are all the types that call your dispatcher in a panic asking for help when you dropped your keys, or your fleshlight fell out of your overnight bag on a swap...

I don't think anyone on here has been making fun of a dispatcher because they are a dispatcher.

Can you point out where?

It appears more that people are conversing with someone who happens to be a dispatcher, and shooting down every illogical point they are trying to make.