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Compass guys, what's up with the flowthrough?

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Flyer1015

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Posts
4,502
Was in MSP and ran across a nice Compass CA. I asked him about the flowthrough situation at Compass and if he had heard anything. Apparently, Delta is "holding it back."??? What is this suppose to mean? Compass guys, can you chime in? My understanding was that this was a "solid" agreement that automatically entailed the first xx spots (20 spots?) of a new hire class to Compass pilots flowing through. Anything other than that is in violation of the agreement. The Compass CA did mention that this was going to make some pilots upset and that "since when have flowthroughs worked, right?" I agreed, wished him good luck, and made my way to my next flight.

Question is, what exactly is going on with the Compass flowthrough? If Delta really is hiring 300 pilots starting August/September, then Compass should already be in the process of getting CAs ready for their departure to Delta mainline. This would be evident by hiring more pilots at Compass to account for CAs flowthing through, FOs upgrading at Compass, and new hire FOs coming in. But so far, we haven't seen that.

Feel free to chime in. Methinks Delta is just trying to save their bottom line (dollar). Hiring a guy off the street will cost Delta just one training cycle (the newhire Delta FO). Compass is wholly owned. Flowing through a Compass CA will mean 3 training cycles: the flowthrough CA getting trained as Delta newhire FO, the Compass FO who upgrades to fulfill the vacating CA seat, and the newhire FO at Compass who fulfills the vacated FO seat. That's 3 cycles, and more expensive than just hiring a guy off the street.

Anyone?
 
My understanding is that compass can hold them back 90 days. However, they receive senority numbers based on the day they could have entered class.
 
Ok, but to confirm, after 90 days you MUST go through? And in another thread, someone mentioned flowthroughs still have to do interviews, like a Phase 1 or 2. Is that true? How can it be a flowthrough if you have to interview? That's not a flowthrough, that's just a preferential interview.
 
Flyer1015 said:
Ok, but to confirm, after 90 days you MUST go through? And in another thread, someone mentioned flowthroughs still have to do interviews, like a Phase 1 or 2. Is that true? How can it be a flowthrough if you have to interview? That's not a flowthrough, that's just a preferential interview.
Click to expand...

My understanding is only 90 days. I have not heard of the interview thing. Nwa hand some flowups from mesaba during the last hiring process and I beleive no interviews for the flowups
 
This is going to be yet ANOTHER example of a failed "flowthrough" agreement....When will we ever learn?
 
As usual, it's appropriate to ignore Joe.

No interviews for compass guys (or Mesaba), they can hold them back 90 days but they still get seniority numbers just like they started class when they could have first flowed.

First new bodies won't be on property until August or so from what I am hearing.
 
JoeMerchant said:
This is going to be yet ANOTHER example of a failed "flowthrough" agreement....When will we ever learn?
Click to expand...

Oh, if only you would have interviewed Joe. But instead you paid for your job at asa, only to be stuck there while your f/o's go on to bigger and better things. I know, I know, it's all ALPA's fault.
Maybe you should give some more money to Haber. I'm sure his Hampton house pool could use a new sliding board.:laugh:
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
As usual, it's appropriate to ignore Joe.

No interviews for compass guys (or Mesaba), they can hold them back 90 days but they still get seniority numbers just like they started class when they could have first flowed.

First new bodies won't be on property until August or so from what I am hearing.
Click to expand...
When do we get to fly together in the Mad Dog? See ya on the other side.
 
Do a string search for NWA LOA 2006 10 and 12. All of the deets are in there.

They will get numbers on their hire dates at DAL but at the option as agreed to in the LOA's can be held in their current positions for up to 90 days for operational necessity. They will just arrive and start indoc three months later with three months under their belt.
 
The contractual language is very well written and does include the option for Compass to hold pilots back for up to 90 days for operational constraints. The interview process was being changed because of the DAL/NWA merger and apparently wasn't up and running in time to mitigate hold-backs...at least that's the current consensus.

Since the flow agreement is a four party agreement all have to be on board for it to run effectively. All parties have indicated they will work together for a smooth flow.

It does take three training cycles to flow a pilot, but that assumes that no Compass pilot will ever leave. Over the long run the fact that Compass should never have anyone past year four or five pay more than pays for any additional training cycles.
 
Mark my words....In one way or another, the Mesaba and Compass flowthrough agreements will not last....
 
JoeMerchant said:
Mark my words....In one way or another, the Mesaba and Compass flowthrough agreements will not last....
Click to expand...

Mark my words.....No matter how many ASA'ers leave that are junior to you, you'll be stuck at ASA for the rest of your miserable career!:laugh::laugh:
Try another lawsuit, you pft jerk!
 
Hi!

Yes, the Compass/Mesaba flow throughs won't last. SOMETHING will end it, like the sun burning up, and destroying all life on earth, or the earth as we know it ending in 2012, or DAL going Chapter 7. Otherwise, FLOW ON!

cliff
LFW
 
JoeMerchant said:
Mark my words....In one way or another, the Mesaba and Compass flowthrough agreements will not last....
Click to expand...
With 5600 posts, you are bound to get something right........sometime,

You do know their are more than one site on this internet thing,,,right?
 
SEVEN said:
When do we get to fly together in the Mad Dog? See ya on the other side.
Click to expand...


Still Dreaming? The first 100 said no to the flow short of about 15. Pretty much all the rest will say yes to the flow. 9 per month. Boy with you being about sen # 500 that would put you flowing after 45 months of active flow! Good luck. We have had about what 18 months of hiring in the last decade and that was in 07/08. Before that it was pre 9/11. That will put you flowing in about 30 years. See ya cup cake.
 
Mark my words.....No matter how many ASA'ers leave that are junior to you, you'll be stuck at ASA for the rest of your miserable career!:laugh::laugh:
Try another lawsuit, you pft jerk!
Click to expand...

Are bitterness and spite traits that they look for in the selection process or are they developed during the course of working there?
 
Piedmont and PSA's flowthru worked out really well. Lets see we took paycuts, got lied to by ALPA and when US Airways started hiring they said no way to a flowthru. We will Pref. Hire you guys and then turn around and let ya go.
All the Piedmont Peeps got screwed on that one. Argh!
 
Hey SEVEN, you have been on here 100 times since my post and I know you read my post so where is your smartazz response?
 
At the MEM base meeting last night the Compass flow ups were confirmed. They will get the 20 per month and Mesaba will have 9. So, I don't think they have anything to worry about.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
No interviews for compass guys (or Mesaba), they can hold them back 90 days but they still get seniority numbers just like they started class when they could have first flowed.
Click to expand...

anybody else agree the compass pilots who get this are the luckiest bunch in a real long time? you guys want us to shine your shoes before the interview too..oh wait- no interview.

well, let us know if there's anything else we can do to make the transition to your mainline slot easier.

(Im not bitter or anything)
 
Moustache said:
With 5600 posts, you are bound to get something right........sometime,

You do know their are more than one site on this internet thing,,,right?
Click to expand...

Really? What are you a 3rd grader? Their? There? They're? Tricky s***.





eP.
 
relief tube said:
anybody else agree the compass pilots who get this are the luckiest bunch in a real long time? you guys want us to shine your shoes before the interview too..oh wait- no interview.

well, let us know if there's anything else we can do to make the transition to your mainline slot easier.

(Im not bitter or anything)
Click to expand...

Luck has nothing to do with it. The flow agreements have been a well known and documented entity since day one, not secret. It was a matter of weighing the risk of being flushed if NWA/Delta furloughed vs. the opportunity hopefully at hand. If you're bitter it's nobody's fault but yours, you could have applied and taken the risk too.
 
relief tube said:
anybody else agree the compass pilots who get this are the luckiest bunch in a real long time? you guys want us to shine your shoes before the interview too..oh wait- no interview.

well, let us know if there's anything else we can do to make the transition to your mainline slot easier.

(Im not bitter or anything)
Click to expand...

Public knowledge for years. Those pilots also had to live the last few years with hearing they were going to be furloughed every time they checked this site.
 
relief tube said:
anybody else agree the compass pilots who get this are the luckiest bunch in a real long time? you guys want us to shine your shoes before the interview too..oh wait- no interview.

well, let us know if there's anything else we can do to make the transition to your mainline slot easier.

(Im not bitter or anything)
Click to expand...

Read the post above this one -- Jiminmem is absolutely right.

Since Compass was created people have been saying nonstop that the pilots there would be furloughed any month now due to mainline flowbacks. So far in this recession mainline just barely scraped by without sending anyone to the street. I am impressed at that, really, because so many other companies were not able to do that. Heck, look at UPS now furloughing in the face of an economic upswing! Unbelievable.

So, in return for 'keeping the seats warm' we see the flowthrough agreement about to work in the upwards direction.

I do agree with you -- the upward movement at Compass during this downturn has been a very unique situation. Bad times, but the place was created right before that started and very very few of the fNWA guys on the street took the opportunity to come back to CPZ before going all the way back to mainline, so they ended up needing new hires and of course there were some fast upgrades and such.

There is one more thing. You say that the people at Compass are a lucky bunch. In some ways, yes -- I mentioned those above. But when you examine the resumes of most of the pilots at Compass you would realize that although they are fortunate for the upward movement, very very very many of them had no opportunity to continue flying at their former employers, to include:
Gemini
ATA
Aloha
DHL
Continental
United
US Airways
NetJets
Comair
Midwest
Skyway
ExpressJet

The list goes on. Lucky, yes in some ways. But many would have stayed put if they could have. Fortunately, they found Compass and it's worked out alright so far (albeit an enormous paycut and QOL cut for most).
 
Pardon my skepticism, but I'll believe it when I see it. The idea of scores of you guys skipping the interview and just pinning on your Delta wings is a little hard to accept...given the amazing vanity of the DAL pilot group and of the airline in general.

Something about regional airline pilots joining their ranks without being specifically, individually selected just doesn't sound realistic to me.

Great luck seeing that through...but I'll believe it when I see it and not a second before.
 

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