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Comparing hiring practices--Who is doing it right?

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SWA GUY said:
Just because one doesn't get hired doesnt mean he/she won't be hired the second or third time around.

It's not like anyone's holding a gun to another's head telling them to get a type.

That's exactly my point.

The company wants a person to fit their culture......fine.

Then they don't hire you because obviously they don't think you are a good fit.....fine.

How is it that a year later you all of a sudden are? This is what pi$$es me off.

If the company wants to require a type rating as a condition of employment, that's fine too. But I think it is lame that you basically won't be called for an interview without one, so you get one and then they turn you down anyways........lame. I think that SWA HR has gotten a little full of themselves since they all of a sudden have all these pilots wanting to work there and I find that to be a turnoff. You all can get all pi$$y with me if you want, but I am entitled to my opinion.
 
Of course this topic is totally subjective. Who really cares if we think the hiring process is right or wrong. It is management who really counts. If an airline has kep the same application/interview/hiring policy for a long period of time, then obviously those who count feel they have it right. However if a company is constantly changing it process, then clearly those in charge don't feel they have it right.

So IMHO, look at who has changed or modified their practices recently to see what their own people think.
 
canyonblue737 said:
Right now SWA is interviewing pilots who by and large have thousands of hours of PIC turbine, often are check airman, or are highly experienced military aviators and IPs. Unlike a small commuter interviewing inexperienced pilots SWA knows that by and large everyone they interview would pass a sim, pass a written exam etc. Since everyone interviewing has a type or must get a type prior to showing up they also know with great confidence you can fly a 737. In fact from what I have heard in the last several years you could count on one hand the number of folks who washed due to flying skill.

SOOO... that leaves the "are you a good guy/girl who fits with the culture of SWA. are you a jerk?" To find that out they have to go into the storytime and get you to talk like a buddy/friend because if you accept it or not being a part of SWA is much more than pushing the throttles forward and pointing the nose somewhere, something more we think helps keep the company fun, and solvent in the long run. ;) that doesn't mean other companies do it wrong, or don't do it better... but there is a method behind the madness.


Canyon, you said this in response to Bafanguy's post. Did you know that he was one of the early SWA employees ? Since it was that early group of employees who contributed to the foundation of SWA and it's culture they must have been doing something right in the hiring process. Let's ask Bafanguy what it was like.

Baf, care to chime in ?


TP
 
capt. megadeth said:
I think that SWA HR has gotten a little full of themselves since they all of a sudden have all these pilots wanting to work there and I find that to be a turnoff. You all can get all pi$$y with me if you want, but I am entitled to my opinion.


Not trying to be pissy...

The type was required for interview long before 9/11. It was a requirement when many would rather have worked for UAL, NWA or AA. It was changed in the late 90's when the pilot labor market had its bubble. Southwest promised all qualified applicants an interview but stated typed folks would get interviews sooner. Now the type is just 'preferred'. And the promise to interview all qualified applicants is gone.

Not sure about the background on the type requirement. Long ago I used to think 737 time to back up the type was important. I learned later that 737 time is not really a player, just the type.
 
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typhoonpilot said:
Did you know that he was one of the early SWA employees ?
TP

So he says. Did you know that I invented the Internet!
 
typhoonpilot said:
Let's ask Bafanguy what it was like.

Baf, care to chime in ?


TP

TP,

I think this "discussion" has deteriorated to a point where the arrogance of youth is ruling the roost. Nothing I can say would be of any value.

For Mr. "canyonblue",

I was hired by Don Ogden in the office of my former boss at a failing airline after about 20 minutes of one professional aviator shooting the breeze with another professional aviator. We each knew where the other was coming from, what we were discussing, and what it meant for each of us. It ended with a handshake and a May, 1971 classdate at UAL ( Don picked up the tab, as it should be ).

Shortly after, Pratt, Salazar, Cabeza, Benjamin, Tietjen, Hoyt, Hampton, Matter, Deakins, Everett, Steele, and Burk ( all from the same unfortunate company ) were given the same dignified, professional courtesy by a very fine gentleman who had some serious history behind his name and whose judgement could be trusted ( maybe someday you can make the same claim; today, however, is apparently not that day ).

From other sources came Welch, Van Oversheld, Cohen, Patterson, and others, fine gentlemen to a man. Your now #1 guy, Sprague, came along ( after a stint as an appliance salesman at Sears ) from the same non-sked as I was leaving SWA in early '73. I helped him find his first apartment in DAL. He's an absolutely first-class guy, and always was.

I have followed the history of SWA with a very personal interest and rooted for you every step in the process. I cut my teeth in aviation with these guys and they are my heros. I am proud of them and am glad to see them hang in there and reap the rewards they earned. You, my friend, walk on their shoulders. Not the shoulders of some batch of paper shufflers who expect you to show up with a certified copy of your parent's marriage license to prove you're not a bastard, and then tell them your best "...there I was, when all of a sudden..." story. Real aviators don't need this monkey motion to size up one another; they just know because, when you're the guy they want, it's obvious even without your parent's certified marriage license.

As evidenced from your posts, you have a lot to learn. Get humble, Junior, because the taller that high horse you're riding, the longer and more painful your inevitable fall to the ground will be. And, in today's airline biz, you can NEVER rule that out.

And, no, I did not invent the internet.
 
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capt. megadeth said:
If the company wants to require a type rating as a condition of employment, that's fine too. But I think it is lame that you basically won't be called for an interview without one, so you get one and then they turn you down anyways........lame. I think that SWA HR has gotten a little full of themselves since they all of a sudden have all these pilots wanting to work there and I find that to be a turnoff. You all can get all pi$$y with me if you want, but I am entitled to my opinion.

If we can agree all airlines, to varying degree make mistakes in there hiring, then at least SWA is willing to reinterview you in the hopes that perhaps either you have changed your approach or perhaps a different set of interviewers will see it differently. No matter how you shake it, I think it is a better deal than like some majors who once they shut you down you have zero chance of ever getting another shot.
 
bafanguy said:
As evidenced from your posts, you have a lot to learn. Get humble, Junior, because the taller that high horse you're riding, the longer and more painful your inevitable fall to the ground will be. And, in today's airline biz, you can NEVER rule that out.

Last time I checked I was entitled to my own opinion whether popular or not. Had you stayed at Southwest, you would be a Millionaire today. We have never furloughed, so your decision to leave might have been your disparagement for Southwest. I was at Bob Pratt's retirement party, and he was a great guy, not just for his character, but for the fact that he stuck with this airline. We have had guys leave in every decade since our inception, always thinking that the grass is always greener. For those that have left I have no love lost, the place is obviously better without them. I never rule anything out but with all due respect Sir, the next 20 years in this industry wont be anything like the last 20, and I have to live it.
 

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