Comair's Sole Crash Survivor wants to fly again

[Moustache]

Just out of curiosity, how would you feel about a wet behind the ears 1LT that made a mistake and got 49 Marines (an entire platoon) killed? Would the Corps give him his job back? What if he actually sued others in an attempt to place blame elsewhere? Would you want your son under his command?
We all make mistakes and we all realize that mistakes have consequences. The consequences of this particular mistake for 49 people (and their families) was death. The consequences are probably going to be another line of work for the guy who is responsible.

There is a expectation of death in battle, not in flying.

 

[Moustache]

This post needs to be shut down. There is no respect. All airlines have made a mistake. Southwest could have killed thousands with their latest cracks. Those are the mistakes that should never happened. I remember a certain regional that went up to FL410 to have a little fun. That could have killed thousands depending on where they ended up. NOW those kind of accidents have no excuse.

You want to shut it down, but definitely not before giving your $.02.

 

[The_Russian]

Uh......apparently not EVERYONE!

Keep in mind that fatigue played a major part in this accident. You can brief all you want and still may forget something if you become distracted by some unwanted input. They could have flown in and out of there 300 times and it wouldn't have mattered.

 

[172driver]

I'm not pointing any fingers here but didn't the Capt. line the airplane up on the runway? I don't think the FO steers the RJ with the rudder onto the runway do they? (at least not on a regular basis) Just one tiller on the thing right? I'm also not saying it was all the Capt's fault either.... the flying pilot should have his heading bug on the departure runways heading and the non flying guy has his heading bug set to the assigned departure heading...... (at least thats in our ops specs for good reason ~ as far as I'm concerned). They "both" should have caught the mistake if they followed some simple good habits

Just for clarification, there is only one heading bug in the CRJ. They can't be set independently. Comair's SOP's at the time of the crash called for bugging runway heading OR the departure heading if the turn is to be made at 400' AGL or lower. They were assigned a heading after departure and followed the procedures.

 

[RJP]

Monday Morning

Keep in mind that fatigue played a major part in this accident. You can brief all you want and still may forget something if you become distracted by some unwanted input. They could have flown in and out of there 300 times and it wouldn't have mattered.

They were tired. I can understand that. Maybe they flew in there a thousand times. I don't know and I don't make any judgement in this case.

My point was that for someone (PCL) who seems to have a "holier than thou" complex because this is a regional board should be "majorly" professional enough to have made an effort to make the airport safer if it truly was "an accident waiting to happen" and "an abortion". Nice choice of analogies by the way. Everyone's got an opinion but this is Monday Morning QB at it's finest.

 

[PCL_128]

My point was that for someone (PCL) who seems to have a "holier than thou" complex because this is a regional board should be "majorly&quot

I have no "holier than thou" complex, I simply find it reprehensible that all of the people on this thread think they can second guess the actions of this crew and put them down while one of them is dead and the other is permanently disabled. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[RJP]

I have no "holier than thou" complex, I simply find it reprehensible that all of the people on this thread think they can second guess the actions of this crew and put them down while one of them is dead and the other is permanently disabled. Absolutely disgusting.

Fair enough. I'm out.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I can admire his passion for flying, but he needs to hang up the wings.

Maybe he can be involved in the aviation community by driving around airports and checking the validity of Jepp charts, or giving lectures on being an assertive FO or ALPA's pilot fatigue representative.

 

[Snapshot]

There is a expectation of death in battle, not in flying.

Just like there's an expectation of your point being completely missed on FI.

 

[SplitBar]

Keep in mind that fatigue played a major part in this accident. You can brief all you want and still may forget something if you become distracted by some unwanted input. They could have flown in and out of there 300 times and it wouldn't have mattered.

No flame here but how did fatigue factor in? I didn't read the final briefs. Wasn't the crew coming off a long layover and it was the 1st flight of the day? It's easy to play the fatigue card just like crying wolf.

 

[SplitBar]

Keep in mind that fatigue played a major part in this accident. You can brief all you want and still may forget something if you become distracted by some unwanted input. They could have flown in and out of there 300 times and it wouldn't have mattered.

No flame here but how did fatigue factor in? I didn't read the final briefs. Wasn't the crew coming off a long layover and it was the 1st flight of the day? It's easy to play the fatigue card just like crying wolf.

 

[Captzaahlie]

First of all, I didn't receive ANY "butt kicking". There is absolutely nothing wrong with Monday morning quarterbacking if it is done without disrespect to the dead. Did I disrespect any dead pilots in my postings? No I didn't. Your problem with my postings on the Dash 8 incident is your personal lack of ability to meet the needs of spontaneous thought required in the event of an emergency. My posts were made with an educated input instead of a moronic insult to fellow crew members. BTW, I have spoken to plenty of Dash pilots, and that scenario can be performed if necessary.

Please remember that those pilots used poor technique resulting in their aircraft departing the runway. The incident was completely foreseeable and caught on video. Aeromedical factors played no little or no part in that crash as it did in 5191's.

It was. One thing you forget to mention was that there were plenty of people backing me up on that. Not only here, but on other boards.
This has nothing to do with being grown up. It everything to do with thinking objectively.

Would you prefer the children?
Sure, they are. Go ******************** yourself, too.

You are delusional if you think anyone was backing you up..... good luck finding an example of it. It had everything to do with irrational thinking on your part, especially with total lack of regard to any systems knowledge.....
Consider yourself added to my ignore list I hope your crew members are smart enough to ignore "your words of wisdom" in the cockpit.....:laugh:

 

[Captzaahlie]

No flame here but how did fatigue factor in? I didn't read the final briefs. Wasn't the crew coming off a long layover and it was the 1st flight of the day? It's easy to play the fatigue card just like crying wolf.

The "rushen" once again has his facts WRONG the fo and Fa were on a very long overnight , more than 24 hours.... the Captain commuted into the overnight the night before..... it was not reduced rest for any of the crew!

Ruskie always seems to place his opinion before the facts....

He should be working for the FAA......

 

[172driver]

So, you can't be fatigued after a long rest period or unless it's reduced rest?

 

[172driver]

So, you can't be fatigued after a long rest period or unless it's reduced rest?

 

[WSurf]

The "rushen" once again has his facts WRONG the fo and Fa were on a very long overnight , more than 24 hours.... the Captain commuted into the overnight the night before..... it was not reduced rest for any of the crew!

Ruskie always seems to place his opinion before the facts....

He should be working for the FAA......

Isn't Ruskie a chick?

 

[The_Russian]

You are delusional if you think anyone was backing you up..... good luck finding an example of it.

Go read the two threads on the subject, you will find supporters. All-in-all, you aren't going to find many supporters in the middle of a crap storm created by ignorant fellows. The few that spoke up were insulted and belittled, which seems to be your ONLY debate strategy.

It had everything to do with irrational thinking on your part, especially with total lack of regard to any systems knowledge.....

If you consider "doing what is necessary to meet the needs of the emergency" irrational, I'm not so sure I am the one with the issue.

Consider yourself added to my ignore list I hope your crew members are smart enough to ignore "your words of wisdom" in the cockpit.....:laugh:

Nothing like bowing out when you've got nothing left in you. Well, maybe you have some wind left to blow smoke and thats it. I've been disappointed in your behavior since this crap started. Can't you at least act like an airline pilot, even if you lack the aptitude to be one?

Oh wait, I sound like you now. Stick to the facts.

(Edit)BTW: Just because you and some of the others don't agree with me, it doesn't make me an idiot.

 

[The_Russian]

The "rushen" once again has his facts WRONG the fo and Fa were on a very long overnight , more than 24 hours.... the Captain commuted into the overnight the night before..... it was not reduced rest for any of the crew!

That has absolutely nothing to do with fatigue. It is ignorant to believe that layover length will reflect a pilot's ability to perform. This accident had everything to do with a distraction as a result of fatigue. Circadian rhythms have an incredible influence on your ability to perform. Our rhythms are broken every time we wake up at a different time in the morning. You will see a direct correlation to a night cargo pilot's life span, its shorter.

Ruskie always seems to place his opinion before the facts....

The truth is that I am one of the FEW folks on here that actually posts without emotion and always thinks objectively.

He should be working for the FAA......

I'll take your certificates right away.

 

[The_Russian]

No flame here but how did fatigue factor in? I didn't read the final briefs. Wasn't the crew coming off a long layover and it was the 1st flight of the day? It's easy to play the fatigue card just like crying wolf.

See above.

Why does everyone say "play the fatigue card"? Its not a card and I'm not trying to win money. People need to increase their ability to accept another person's level of stamina. Just because someone gets tired before you do or in a situation you wouldn't, doesn't mean they are trying to get out of something.

 

[RJP]

Couldn't you just make one really long post instead of three? :uzi: :erm:

See above.

 

[Captzaahlie]

That has absolutely nothing to do with fatigue. It is ignorant to believe that layover length will reflect a pilot's ability to perform. This accident had everything to do with a distraction as a result of fatigue. Circadian rhythms have an incredible influence on your ability to perform. Our rhythms are broken every time we wake up at a different time in the morning. You will see a direct correlation to a night cargo pilot's life span, its shorter.

The truth is that I am one of the FEW folks on here that actually posts without emotion and always thinks objectively.

I'll take your certificates right away.

YOU WERE REINVENTING THE EMERGENCY CHECKLIST, REMEMBER .............?

 

[Captzaahlie]

That has absolutely nothing to do with fatigue. It is ignorant to believe that layover length will reflect a pilot's ability to perform. This accident had everything to do with a distraction as a result of fatigue. Circadian rhythms have an incredible influence on your ability to perform. Our rhythms are broken every time we wake up at a different time in the morning. You will see a direct correlation to a night cargo pilot's life span, its shorter.

The truth is that I am one of the FEW folks on here that actually posts without emotion and always thinks objectively.

I'll take your certificates right away.

posts w/o emotion when you tell us to all go F ourselves?


Are you bi-polar our something?

 

[doh]

Saturday was my anniversary. The wife and I were checking out some neighborhoods in the DFW area. I made a bad turn. I still don't know how that guy managed to swerve and miss me and the car next to me. Weboth stopped, I apologised profusely over and over. We were both shook, but disaster was averted. All i can say is it must not have been my time, because I screwed the pooch big time! The crash would have most certainly killed my wife. MustASShe, you are a classless a-hole, but I still hope your mistakes turn out like mine did. Now I'm kinda shook up all over again. Jim, I wish you all the best! I can't begin to know what you live with.

 

[Moustache]

Saturday was my anniversary. The wife and I were checking out some neighborhoods in the DFW area. I made a bad turn. I still don't know how that guy managed to swerve and miss me and the car next to me. Weboth stopped, I apologised profusely over and over. We were both shook, but disaster was averted. All i can say is it must not have been my time, because I screwed the pooch big time! The crash would have most certainly killed my wife. MustASShe, you are a classless a-hole, but I still hope your mistakes turn out like mine did. Now I'm kinda shook up all over again. Jim, I wish you all the best! I can't begin to know what you live with.

I can't help that you almost killed you own family, on the road, driving. Your fatalistic view (its my time) of life is troubling for a pilot, but explaines why you hate my posts so much. You can't handle that people can be held responsible for their descisions. You would rather blame the situation or circumstance.
Amazing, you can leave a post without insults, they were witty thought.

 

[doh]

I can't help that you almost killed you own family, on the road, driving. Your fatalistic view (its my time) of life is troubling for a pilot, but explaines why you hate my posts so much. You can't handle that people can be held responsible for their descisions. You would rather blame the situation or circumstance.
Amazing, you can leave a post without insults, they were witty thought.

Not to be the spelling police, but I don't understand that last part about "witty thoughts"? "It's not my time" does not reflect a fatalistic view about life at all. It is simply the only explanation I can come up with for this particular situation. The guy should have hit me or the car next to me, it was that tight. Jim is being held responsible for his actions. Is he irredeemable because he effed up? I would say no, but perhaps you feel imperfection makes him so? Then are you also irredeemable? Or will you tell me you are perfect? Your spelling and punctuation have already given you away in that regard.

 

[Moustache]

Not to be the spelling police, but I don't understand that last part about "witty thoughts"? "It's not my time" does not reflect a fatalistic view about life at all. It is simply the only explanation I can come up with for this particular situation. The guy should have hit me or the car next to me, it was that tight. Jim is being held responsible for his actions. Is he irredeemable because he effed up? I would say no, but perhaps you feel imperfection makes him so? Then are you also irredeemable? Or will you tell me you are perfect? Your spelling and punctuation have already given you away in that regard.

You can sure hang you hat on the spelling thing. The perfect argument has been brought up a lot in this post. It is such an easy, no thought way of avoiding the real issue. Personal responsibility is lost in this world. The word victim has been pinned to everyone that has misgivings. The fact is thay people screw up and should take responsibility.
The explanation for your near-Texas accident is that you screwed up, and you have a hard time accepting that--blaming it on fate!!!! You are part of this problem!!!

 

[regionalcap]

You can sure hang you hat on the spelling thing. The perfect argument has been brought up a lot in this post. It is such an easy, no thought way of avoiding the real issue. Personal responsibility is lost in this world. The word victim has been pinned to everyone that has misgivings. The fact is thay people screw up and should take responsibility.
The explanation for your near-Texas accident is that you screwed up, and you have a hard time accepting that--blaming it on fate!!!! You are part of this problem!!!

Relax. Take a deep breath. The previous guy said that he apologized over and over. I think that shows that he accepted responsibility for his actions. No one is perfect. The right thing to do is forgive people for their actions and move on.

 

[The_Russian]

YOU WERE REINVENTING THE EMERGENCY CHECKLIST, REMEMBER .............?

I thought I was on your "ignore list"!

This may have been the thing you were unable to understand. I was not re-inventing the emergency checklist. Please re-read my posts which clearly highlight the fact that I was speaking about flying technique and performing actions that the checklist does not cover. No checklist covers "crashing procedure" or crashing technique". These things that you must do that are "outside the box" will save lives.

Please remember that meeting the needs of an emergency will change for every emergency ehile the checklist does not change.

This is basic airmanship we are talking about here.

 

[The_Russian]

posts w/o emotion when you tell us to all go F ourselves?


Are you bi-polar our something?

Was I having a debate? No. I was telling some folks off. As you can read, they deserve it. These pilots were our comrades, and now they are dead and disabled.

 

[The_Russian]

Couldn't you just make one really long post instead of three? :uzi: :erm:

Apparently it is because of my "bi-polar" disorder. Oh crap, I made three posts again!