Comair's Proposal in Writing

[Max Powers]

For all you puss that are going to cave because you think if you don't the show is over and they are going to shut you down...your nuts have some balls your worth more than you think and no they won't shut it down they will just give you a little bit better deal to take home.

 

[bvt1151]

For all you puss that are going to cave because you think if you don't the show is over and they are going to shut you down...your nuts have some balls your worth more than you think and no they won't shut it down they will just give you a little bit better deal to take home.

From my previous post:

To the Comair pilots, be very suspicious of pilots from other airlines telling you to vote this down. They have everything to gain from a no vote, specifically 165 of Comair's aircraft, and absolutely nothing to lose. There is no support until they all refuse to accept ex-Comair airplanes, and this is as unlikely to happen as Delta is of turning a profit this quarter.

If all Comair pilots lose their jobs, it actually affects them favorably. Don't base your decision on what pilots from other airlines say. Especially other DCI carriers who stand to gain so much at such a high cost to Comair pilots.

That didn't take long.

 

[Nindiri]

Question for the Comair guys. Can Delta liquidate Comair without the judge's approval?

Also, from reading the board here, I understand that the pre-strike pilots have furlough protection. Can Delta violate that no-furlough provision if they do decide to shrink or close down Comair because it isn't economically competitive? It seems they would need the judge to allow them to throw out that provision, and from her comments she doesn't sound like she would approve of that sort of tactic.

How many pilots are still protected by that no-furlough clause?

Thanks, and goodluck no matter what you choose.

 

[bvt1151]

Question for the Comair guys. Can Delta liquidate Comair without the judge's approval?

I don't think so, but there's no reason she would deny it. If someone is willing to pay more for the parts than for the parts and pilots, its an obvious decision.

Also, from reading the board here, I understand that the pre-strike pilots have furlough protection. Can Delta violate that no-furlough provision if they do decide to shrink or close down Comair because it isn't economically competitive? It seems they would need the judge to allow them to throw out that provision, and from her comments she doesn't sound like she would approve of that sort of tactic.

She will never see the contract. The company is already violating the recent furlough protection and the judge has no say in that. No reason to believe the first furlough protection would do any better than the second.

How many pilots are still protected by that no-furlough clause?

I believe its roughly half, although I question your choice of the word "protected"

 

[Nindiri]

Not very encouraging.

Well, fwiw, if it comes to a shutdown of CMR, I for one will be doing everything in my power to avoid flying any former Comair equipment. MX write-ups, sick calls, whatever it takes as much as possible. The problem will be knowing which equipment that is; hopefully the union will provide some info.

 

[OCP]

How do you you figure?

The pay rates are not, but the work rules are still better. i.e. Schedualing.

 

[ILS2DH]

Of course the FO rates are the worst!! You think the Negotiating commitee sat around and tried to figure out ways to keep FO pay. HELL NO! They did everything they could to keep the 70 scale for the Captains only and the top end pay for the Captains. The Union could give two Sh**s about someoned who has been here less than 10 years or anyone who is not planning on trying to make a career at this company.

Aren't you glad that 2% of your paycheck is going to represent you????

The fact that our MEC deemed this proposal unacceptable, yet still put it out for member vote is just further proof of how weak they really are. Thanks for nothing!

 

[ThisistheDream]

What happens if it is a NO vote? , DAL will take it to the judge and the same or very close to same proposal will be enforced. It sucks to think that this is happening but what did people expect? The Comair group had not taken any concessions until lately with the pay freeze while everyone else has taken or been forced into cuts so why would the Comair pilots think that nothing bad would happen and that they would skate thru this bad downturn totaly uneffected? even after this cut they still will be better off than alot of other RJ fleet airlines. But!!!!! I will still vote NO becuase there is nothing to lose as far pay. Anyone can get a job making FO and even CA pay be home every night. 50% or more pilots say that if they knew what situtation the airlines would be in 5-10 years ago they would have never got in this industry, well here is our chance!!!!!!!!!

 

[RCA]

Delta airlines is losing $5million dollars per day. If 17.3 million is that important they probably will and should shut CMR down. Im voting no, If the company fails at least I did my best to make a living as an airline pilot. Cant survive on 30 bucks and even if the upgrade comes in 3-4 yrs 62 isnt that much either.

 

[goodto50meters]

The fact that our MEC deemed this proposal unacceptable, yet still put it out for member vote is just further proof of how weak they really are. Thanks for nothing!

Maybe this is a briliiant way to shove it up Phab-Phive-Phreddo's a$$ by showing him and Delta that this wont fly, and a huge NO vote by the Comair pilots would certainly make the point.

Show support for your MEC and vote NO then!

 

[bvt1151]

What happens if it is a NO vote? , DAL will take it to the judge and the same or very close to same proposal will be enforced. It sucks to think that this is happening but what did people expect? The Comair group had not taken any concessions until lately with the pay freeze while everyone else has taken or been forced into cuts so why would the Comair pilots think that nothing bad would happen and that they would skate thru this bad downturn totaly uneffected? even after this cut they still will be better off than alot of other RJ fleet airlines. But!!!!! I will still vote NO becuase there is nothing to lose as far pay. Anyone can get a job making FO and even CA pay be home every night. 50% or more pilots say that if they knew what situtation the airlines would be in 5-10 years ago they would have never got in this industry, well here is our chance!!!!!!!!!

This will not go to the judge. Delta's scared to death of that judge and they've already said they won't file 1113 for Comair. They went looking for $300 million from the Delta pilots and got $100 million. I guess I see why.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

The fact that our MEC deemed this proposal unacceptable, yet still put it out for member vote is just further proof of how weak they really are. Thanks for nothing!

Actually...you are 180 degrees off on the strategy here. Read between the lines. Also do a little research on the 1113(c) filing process and what it takes to stay in the judge's good graces. Good luck.

-Neal

 

[B777]

as long as you have a regional airline like Mesa and pilots that are willing to fly for them for dirt cheap, you are going to get proposals like this. Sure, the Comair pilots can stand strong and all that, but all Delta has to do is kick Comair out and bring Mesa in. What I am talking about has already taken place. Freedom now has 30 departures out of MCO. If you were Delta, and you have a choice between high rates Comair and dirt cheap Mesa, which one would you take? I heard, but did not confirm, that Mesa has put a bid for Flyi and they are agressively seeking to get more flights from Delta.

This is reality and sooner or later you have to come to grip with it. Continental is also putting the pressure on XJT to lower the block rates. United told AWAC to lower rates, they told them to take a hike. Blowjet is now operating routes previously operated by AWAC. Hopefuly, the industry will correct itself, but for now this trend will continue . . .

 

[jetflyer]

This is too damn interesting.

Glad I have an interview scheduled elsewhere interesting! And if I don't get hired at choice one, choice two will do.

Here is some interesting info: I heard we at Comair are losing 1.5 pilots per day!

I suggest bailing ship while you can, because I think Comair is going to sink, because it looks like this proposal is getting voted down 30-70% in my opinion.

Since I'm leaving I'm going to abstain from voting, but damn this would be a hard decision. It's a scary vote both ways. There's no way to win with either vote.

Good luck to everyone and I do suggest like others to not listen to other airline's pilots. This is every individual Comair pilot's vote, not theirs. Don't vote to please other groups.

Vote and know it may not be the right decision, but vote with the best-educated decision you can make.

Good luck guys,
Jet

 

[standaman]

Maybe this is a briliiant way to shove it up Phab-Phive-Phreddo's a$$ by showing him and Delta that this wont fly, and a huge NO vote by the Comair pilots would certainly make the point.

Show support for your MEC and vote NO then!

When they shut us down I am sure Fred or Atlanta will not particularly care. I hate to say it but I will not be apart of shutting the company down just for martydom. I may be in the minority but I may be a yes vote. I am waiting to hear finaly company proposal before making final descision. So it lowers the bar. Big deal. Nobody out there is going to refuse to fly in to CVG if we cease to exist. You mark my words. As mentioned by others both a yes or not vote carriers risk either way.

 

[Texx]

To all of you Morons out there who want us to "Stand strong and shut the place down". Tell you what. you give up your job come on over here and make a statement with us and I'll go work for your company instead. Blow off, What F***ing good does it do to shut this place down and then go start on the bottom of the list at Mesa, Skywest, Chicken Taco, or some other sh**hole when where I can make less money than is being proposed here? Someone explain where it makes economic sense for any of us????

And Fred's wife and daughter are still looking for that 1.2 million dollar house to live in.

 

[Texx]

As a former Comair FO, I take the captain-centric mentality personally. paycuts for FO's in the 13-20% range while 50 seat ca's are looking at just 9% cuts? That's total BS. Most 2-3 yr FO's are just getting by as it is... No company funded retirement to the 401k?? Comair used to stand for something...don't piss that away. My impression was that the 3 yrs after the strike were prosperous and helped a lot of pilots live comfortable lives...the fight mentality was dying because of it.


No, No, No...

Lead guys. No one else will.

If you guys take the offer, the JR FOs would be better off going to Mesa and grab a quicker upgrade.

 

[ubpilot]

Texx, you are absolutely right. By voting yes, then only difference between Comair FO vs. Mesa FO is the long upgrade. On the other hand, voting no then you still have a chance to live a slightly better shitty life, the worst case is getting liquidated, and get a much fast upgrade at Mesa.

 

[Texx]

Question for the Comair guys. Can Delta liquidate Comair without the judge's approval?

Also, from reading the board here, I understand that the pre-strike pilots have furlough protection. Can Delta violate that no-furlough provision if they do decide to shrink or close down Comair because it isn't economically competitive? It seems they would need the judge to allow them to throw out that provision, and from her comments she doesn't sound like she would approve of that sort of tactic.

How many pilots are still protected by that no-furlough clause?

Thanks, and goodluck no matter what you choose.

Judge would have to approve liquidation or selling CMR as a unit.

So here is the game.....

DAL has already stated in court papers that they tried to sell CMR.
IF CMR pilots take the deal on the table, they will be sold.
IF CMR pilots do not take the deal and continue as they are with the current contract then at some point they probably will be liquidated but that will take some time with the judges approval.

So, do you keep your current contract and don't give in or modifly it slightly - OR - take the deal and be sold with managements' contract?

Good luck and thanks for playing the Regional Airlines Assoc. game!

 

[AAv8r]

Well the way I see it a yes vote is a geat way to get another cut in the future. So if we're not competitive at this rate are you willing to take another cut to be more attractive. If Mesa goes lower are you willing to take another cut? When will it end?

Good luck to all...I know it's not what I need at this time.

 

[ubpilot]

So if we're not competitive at this rate are you willing to take another cut to be more attractive. If Mesa goes lower are you willing to take another cut? When will it end?

There are two possible ways to end this horrible cycle once for all, 1. Must take a HUGE pay cut, something like FO $7.25/hr. and CA $20.75/hr., I am sure that will drive the mighty Mesa Empire out of business. 2. Start to pray, hopefully some how Mesa pilots will go on strike to save the entire industry. Other than that, I really don’t see any other ways to stop the mighty Mesa Empire.

 

[gkrangers]

Lets just say a crazy thing happened and all the other regional pilot groups came together and refused to touch any CMR flying. Who would be responsible for rallying all the troops together? ALPA? If so....nevermind.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Lets just say a crazy thing happened and all the other regional pilot groups came together and refused to touch any CMR flying. Who would be responsible for rallying all the troops together? ALPA? If so....nevermind.

How could a pilot group refuse to touch that flying? If you refused to do your IAH-CAE flight...don't you think your chief pilot would have something to say about it? Refuse all you want...but if your company wins that business...and you don't show up to work, expect to do a rug dance in the chief's office.

-Neal

 

[gkrangers]

How could a pilot group refuse to touch that flying? If you refused to do your IAH-CAE flight...don't you think your chief pilot would have something to say about it? Refuse all you want...but if your company wins that business...and you don't show up to work, expect to do a rug dance in the chief's office.

-Neal

I know its unrealistic. I'm just talking about if the pilot groups, as a whole, through ALPA made it known that none of them will fly airplanes or routes from someone in Comair's position. I'm not talking about 1 pilot refusing to do the flying.

Management can accept all the flying they want, but what are they gonna do when nobody will do the flying? Everyone hires completely new work forces?

Something needs to prevent the undercutting and cannibalization thats going on.

I KNOW ITLL NEVER HAPPEN, but just wonder what any sort of unification at all would do for the industry.

 

[imacdog]

Keep dreaming. There are too many pilots willing to fight for scraps for this to ever happen.

 

[Berry McCockner]

I'm sorry CMR, but your fate has already been decided. When you vote. Vote with your hearts and minds, but remember....Pilots don't buy airplanes. The big D is just using your situation to siphen more money out of your pocket. You've been dealt this hand before (pay freeze for growth) and it came back to bite you in the ass. Don't get suckered into another trap. Stay strong. Vote NO.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Good luck Comair, you are a great bunch of guys.

 

[L1011 Rules!]

All Regional Pilots need to take a stand or we all will be in the food stamp line instead of the unemployment line......Employees do not need to subsidize the operation of the company or the lack of good management or overcapacity issues!!!!!!! Enough is enough!

Comair guys let us ASA guys down on the the last LOA screwing us ASA folk...now us ASA guys are going to take a stand and tell MGMT NO MORE!!!!! I suggest you do the same at Comair! They already fooled you once are you going to let it happen again?

 

[standaman]

All Regional Pilots need to take a stand or we all will be in the food stamp line instead of the unemployment line......Employees do not need to subsidize the operation of the company or the lack of good management or overcapacity issues!!!!!!! Enough is enough!

Comair guys let us ASA guys down on the the last LOA screwing us ASA folk...now us ASA guys are going to take a stand and tell MGMT NO MORE!!!!! I suggest you do the same at Comair! They already fooled you once are you going to let it happen again?

Yay. Thanks for your support

 

[79%N1]

All Regional Pilots need to take a stand or we all will be in the food stamp line instead of the unemployment line......Employees do not need to subsidize the operation of the company or the lack of good management or overcapacity issues!!!!!!! Enough is enough!

Comair guys let us ASA guys down on the the last LOA screwing us ASA folk...now us ASA guys are going to take a stand and tell MGMT NO MORE!!!!! I suggest you do the same at Comair! They already fooled you once are you going to let it happen again?

The problem is that when we stand up for what is right, we go the way of Comair/ExpressJet/Mesaba and lose what we had! Planes start disappearing to SKYW, Mesa and CHQ/REP/SA start more and more flights out od ATL, we furlough and then they remove 70 airplanes from our fleets! We cant win! Thats what sucks! They wont give us the fair contract we are fighting for, and if they do...we price ourselves out of the market, hence existance!

I'm not drinking any kool-aid here, just being realistic for the first time. Either way we at ASA are F*@k#d! I'm gonna fight along side the rest of you, but I'm afraid we're fighting an uphill battle. Just look around, not only at the majors but our other regionals. We have to become Mesa or be replaced by them. For me, I'm not willing!