Comair's New President/Other Questions

[DrewBlows]

Completely revisionist...... Karma is a Biatch......
ASA hired furloughs......
Eagle hired furloughs.....
Skywest hired furloughs.....
Even Mesa hired furloughs......
I'm sure more did, but ONLY COMAIR required resignation from a mainline list to work at the bottom of theirs. Well so be it, unfortunately for them, the affected guys were in their 30's, so the DAL will remember for at least another 30 years or so......

ASA pilots don't hire...
Eagle pilots don't hire...
Skywest pilots don't hire...
Even Mesa pilots don't hire...
I guess only Comair pilots are in charge of hiring. Those dirty rotten pilots...

 

[crj567]

The Comair MEC was asked to change or help change the policy for Delta furloughees. For some unknown or stupid reason the Comair MEC were jerks about it and turned down the Delta Union folk.

The Comair MEC were complete asses about the whole thing but at no time did they, or any else at Comair, "prevent" Delta furloughed pilots from being hired.

crj567, you are an IDIOT![/QUOTE]

Maybe so, but ask some of your union guys about the big RFP about 4 years ago..... The Comair MEC and ASA MEC had always had a "gentlemen's agreement" that they would work together should DAL approach either comapny with new flying-the idea was to do something mutually beneficial for both groups.

When DAL did indeed approach the Comair union about new flying, they did not remember their little agreement.... Those toolbags would not even talk to anyone from ASA's union until the RFP was complete and they had all the new flying. I honestly don't think the ASA guys would have pulled that same trick had the roles been reversed.

The Comair union has a long history of being run by arrogant toolbags.... They have hosed a lot of other groups, and now they need some buddies......

-Not too many good buddies out there these days....
-Wonder why?

P.S.-Thanks for reading my previous post-you verified exactly what I stated, and then called me an idiot for stating it.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

The Comair MEC was asked to change or help change the policy for Delta furloughees. For some unknown or stupid reason the Comair MEC were jerks about it and turned down the Delta Union folk.

The Comair MEC were complete asses about the whole thing but at no time did they, or any else at Comair, "prevent" Delta furloughed pilots from being hired.

crj567, you are an IDIOT!

Maybe so, but ask some of your union guys about the big RFP about 4 years ago..... The Comair MEC and ASA MEC had always had a "gentlemen's agreement" that they would work together should DAL approach either comapny with new flying-the idea was to do something mutually beneficial for both groups.

When DAL did indeed approach the Comair union about new flying, they did not remember their little agreement.... Those toolbags would not even talk to anyone from ASA's union until the RFP was complete and they had all the new flying. I honestly don't think the ASA guys would have pulled that same trick had the roles been reversed.

The Comair union has a long history of being run by arrogant toolbags.... They have hosed a lot of other groups, and now they need some buddies......

-Not too many good buddies out there these days....
-Wonder why?

P.S.-Thanks for reading my previous post-you verified exactly what I stated, and then called me an idiot for stating it.[/quote]


Um, what new flying are you referring to? I have been here for 5 years. In that time we have shrunk from 174 airplanes, 1900 pilots, and 48,000 block hours a month to approximately 118 airplanes, 1300 pilots (will have 300 on furlough by January), and 25,000-26,000 block hours a month. We are merely a shell of what we used to be and have watched every other carrier thrive at our expense. The pay freeze that I believe you are referring to was an attempt to achieve some "redneck scope" since it provided for a minimum fleet size and the resultant job protections. We could see that the cheaper components of the "portfolio" were beginning to encroach on our piece of the pie and we tried to mitigate it by taking a longevity freeze. There were no changes in payrates, work rules, or our defined contribution plan as a result of that LOA and we remained the highest paid pilots in the DCI program. Obviously bankruptcy changed all that dramatically (in year two, I made a total of $47,000 including per diem--that is the most that I have made here after five years. Pathetic.)

JC definitely should have made more of an effort to convince Comair management to change their policy regarding the hiring of furloughed pilots. That would have been the right thing to do as a union leader and would have dramatically improved our standing with other pilot groups, including DL. It was unfortunately a result of unchecked ego that has unfairly stygmatized the entire pilot group, including those of us who were not even yet on property in 2002 when all that happened.

Off my soapbox. Fly safe everyone.

 

[General Lee]

I have no crystal ball, but the Comair guys really would have a lot more friends if they were not such tools after 9-11.....

The union prevented Comair from hiring any of the DAL furlough pilots for some reason I could never understand. If a guy is on furlough and wants to go to the bottom of the list as a new hire, who would care?

I know there are lots of good people at Comar, but your union did a horrible thing back then, and when they need help, they won't find a lot of buddies at mainline.....

-That was not smart.
-These days we all need every buddy we can find.

Thank you, that was my argument years ago. To the Comair people who weren't at Comair just after 9-11, I say "I am sorry, good luck to you." To everyone that was there at that time, I say "what comes around goes around."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Full of LUV]

Dont Fret....

Maybe so, but ask some of your union guys about the big RFP about 4 years ago..... The Comair MEC and ASA MEC had always had a "gentlemen's agreement" that they would work together should DAL approach either comapny with new flying-the idea was to do something mutually beneficial for both groups.

When DAL did indeed approach the Comair union about new flying, they did not remember their little agreement.... Those toolbags would not even talk to anyone from ASA's union until the RFP was complete and they had all the new flying. I honestly don't think the ASA guys would have pulled that same trick had the roles been reversed.

The Comair union has a long history of being run by arrogant toolbags.... They have hosed a lot of other groups, and now they need some buddies......

-Not too many good buddies out there these days....
-Wonder why?

P.S.-Thanks for reading my previous post-you verified exactly what I stated, and then called me an idiot for stating it.

Um, what new flying are you referring to? I have been here for 5 years. In that time we have shrunk from 174 airplanes, 1900 pilots, and 48,000 block hours a month to approximately 118 airplanes, 1300 pilots (will have 300 on furlough by January), and 25,000-26,000 block hours a month. We are merely a shell of what we used to be and have watched every other carrier thrive at our expense. The pay freeze that I believe you are referring to was an attempt to achieve some "redneck scope" since it provided for a minimum fleet size and the resultant job protections. We could see that the cheaper components of the "portfolio" were beginning to encroach on our piece of the pie and we tried to mitigate it by taking a longevity freeze. There were no changes in payrates, work rules, or our defined contribution plan as a result of that LOA and we remained the highest paid pilots in the DCI program. Obviously bankruptcy changed all that dramatically (in year two, I made a total of $47,000 including per diem--that is the most that I have made here after five years. Pathetic.)

JC definitely should have made more of an effort to convince Comair management to change their policy regarding the hiring of furloughed pilots. That would have been the right thing to do as a union leader and would have dramatically improved our standing with other pilot groups, including DL. It was unfortunately a result of unchecked ego that has unfairly stygmatized the entire pilot group, including those of us who were not even yet on property in 2002 when all that happened.

Off my soapbox. Fly safe everyone.[/quote]

Kingairkiddo,
Unfortunately for the career comair folks, pilots do the hiring at DAL. I think the average DAL pilot is smart enough to figure out who was at CMR during the reign of arrogance post 9/11. Most of our furloughees though how ironic that a company that struck for a contract to be proud of in less than a year later wasn't willing to work with the DAL mec to get the resignation policy changed to what almost every other regional airline had. Most remember fondly of ASA offering immediate and preferential interview offers to the newly furloughed. Heck, most of the regionals growth was due to the immediate parking and furlough of all the 727 and older 737's pilots.

 

[bvt1151]

I can't believe the Delta propaganda machine is still pumping out that baseless crap about Comair not hiring Delta furloughs. That was a campaign to alter the blame and anger for the Delta furloughed pilots away from DALPA 5 years ago. Apparently some Delta pilot's still have that hook embedded in their cheek.

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

I can't believe the Delta propaganda machine is still pumping out that baseless crap about Comair not hiring Delta furloughs. That was a campaign to alter the blame and anger for the Delta furloughed pilots away from DALPA 5 years ago. Apparently some Delta pilot's still have that hook embedded in their cheek.

This is very old news and is really meaningless at this point, but I'll throw my 2 cents into the conversation. During that time frame I was one of the internal Comair flt ops folks and know that there isn't the conspiracy that everybody thinks it was. As I remember, the simplicity was that it boiled down to sticking with the policy of resigning their seniority number. Emotionally, it was complicated because there were many former captains furloughed by Delta and other legacy carriers living in the CVG area that wanted to come back and we needed pilots. I remember the conversation went on for quite some time, but in the end the costs to bring them back to currency for training etc. outweighed everything else against the risk them being recalled. I lived through the strike and I'm not a fan of JC or the Comair MEC, but I can't lay this one on the union there as much as I'd like to. I recall that this was internal and I can't think of a single flight ops manager that didn't want to bring these pilots back, but when faced with the big picture of them being recalled without having the long term commitment of resigning their seniority number, flt ops chose to keep the existing policy intact.

 

[Monster Buck]

Once again the lie is retold and the urban legend of Comair pilots screwing the Deltoids continues.

The policy about requiring seniority resignation was and still is Comair management policy, not Comair MEC policy. The Deltoids could have told their company (DAL) to tell the wholly owned management to change the policy, but they didn't. In fact they didn't ask for help from DAL management nor Comair management. Instead they demanded that the Comair MEC get it changed. Let's not forget, they wanted a special exemption for DAL pilots. Comair's management policy has always been that ALL newhires resign their seniority at their prior employment.

Granted, the Comair MEC didn't do anything towards getting the policy changed, but that's a far cry from actively torpedoing the idea either. Seniority resignation is a pretty standard industry policy. There were plenty of other pilots furloughed at the time applying to Comair and the policy was applied consistently. Why did the Deltoids think they should be treated differently? Remember, according to them Comair and DAL were separate entities.

In retrospect could JC have been at least willing to broach the idea with Comair management? I guess. A little goodwill goes a long way. There has always been bad blood between some DAL pilots and some CMR pilots, but the legend that Comair pilots actively fought against the DAL furloughees is patently false.

Pinnacle gave NWA pilots preferential hiring and never asked them to drop their NWA seniority number. FWIW.

 

[WSurf]

Thank you, that was my argument years ago. To the Comair people who weren't at Comair just after 9-11, I say "I am sorry, good luck to you." To everyone that was there at that time, I say "what comes around goes around."


Bye Bye--General Lee

Delta could have done what United's Union and management did. The few United furloughs I knew that went to Comair were told by United that if Comair ask you to resign you seniority don't worry about it just do it and you'll still have your place here back once your recalled. No worries....

And they did. Can't believe that Delta didn't just do the same for their pilots.

 

[Monster Buck]

I don't think many would bet their mainline career on word of mouth from people who themselves may be out the door before you come back.

 

[acarpe3448]

I can't believe the Delta propaganda machine is still pumping out that baseless crap about Comair not hiring Delta furloughs. That was a campaign to alter the blame and anger for the Delta furloughed pilots away from DALPA 5 years ago. Apparently some Delta pilot's still have that hook embedded in their cheek.

What about the letter put out by the Comair MEC. In this letter the union said that they felt there were significant safety issues with Comair hiring Delta pilots without a senority number resignation. Ok, fine! The letter went on to state that if Delta would ease or eliminate our scope clause that the safety issue would not be a factor and the Comair pilots would agree to Delta furloughs being hired without giving up their senority numbers. The Comaier pilots were trying their best to get more airplanes for themselves, and bigger and better paying airplanes for themselves at the expense of Delta pilots. This letter is a fact! What is the Comair pilot's thaughts on that issue!

 

[DrewBlows]

What about the letter put out by the Comair MEC. In this letter the union said that they felt there were significant safety issues with Comair hiring Delta pilots without a senority number resignation. Ok, fine! The letter went on to state that if Delta would ease or eliminate our scope clause that the safety issue would not be a factor and the Comair pilots would agree to Delta furloughs being hired without giving up their senority numbers. The Comaier pilots were trying their best to get more airplanes for themselves, and bigger and better paying airplanes for themselves at the expense of Delta pilots. This letter is a fact! What is the Comair pilot's thaughts on that issue!

It's kind of hard to comment on a letter summarized by someone who is openly biased. If you want a real debate I suggest you post the letter.

 

[acarpe3448]

It's kind of hard to comment on a letter summarized by someone who is openly biased. If you want a real debate I suggest you post the letter.

I'll try to find it and post it.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Resigning one's seniority number is commonplace in the industry. Haviing two numbers poses some questions, should they be able to vote or hold elective office, for example.

The situation has been widely reported/distorted for years now but the bottom line was that furloughed Delta pilots were ultimately allowed to be hired without resigning thier seniority number. I'll repeat that, furloughed Delta pilots were hired and did not give up their Delta numbers. In fact, several furloughed Delta pilots went to the charter/fractional side of the company as well including a former Comair pilot.

These are facts that general and others seem to leave out.

Carry on, ladies.

 

[bvt1151]

What about the letter put out by the Comair MEC. In this letter the union said that they felt there were significant safety issues with Comair hiring Delta pilots without a senority number resignation. Ok, fine! The letter went on to state that if Delta would ease or eliminate our scope clause that the safety issue would not be a factor and the Comair pilots would agree to Delta furloughs being hired without giving up their senority numbers. The Comaier pilots were trying their best to get more airplanes for themselves, and bigger and better paying airplanes for themselves at the expense of Delta pilots. This letter is a fact! What is the Comair pilot's thaughts on that issue!

Simply put, that letter you're referring to doesn't exist. Safety issues? Sounds more like what DALPA would tell it's pilots if it really wanted to get them riled up against someone other than themselves.

Your spelling leaves about as much to be desired as the validity of your "facts."

 

[JoeMerchant]

ASA hired furloughed Delta pilots....but the 900s aren't coming to ASA....DALPA doesn't give a d@mn about any of us....

Quit with the revisionist history and DALPA belly aching...

The only thing the CMR MEC was guilty of was not pandering to the DAL MEC....

If a mainline MEC wants help...there needs to be quids....No quids....Pound sand......

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

I can't believe the Delta propaganda machine is still pumping out that baseless crap about Comair not hiring Delta furloughs. That was a campaign to alter the blame and anger for the Delta furloughed pilots away from DALPA 5 years ago. Apparently some Delta pilot's still have that hook embedded in their cheek.

I'll try this again with fewer words. I was a Comair flt ops manager during this time period.

There was no conspiricy.

In 2002, it was an emotional decision within the staff because there were a lot of pilots (and good friends) that wanted to come back.

Due to the cost of training etc., the decision was made to maintain the existing rules about resigning the seniority number before they were hired.

Simple subject, simple answer.. I wasn't a decision maker in this process, but was there while the subject was at hand and I can tell you that it wasn't one they wanted to make but had to budget wise.

 

[ozpilot]

When Delta bought ASA and Comair they could have stapled those pilots to the bottom of Deltas seniority list. If they had, there would have been no Delta furloughs. The junior Delta pilots would have been flying left seat in 70 seat RJ's.

I could never understand at the time why any Delta pilot would object to having several thousand pilots stapled to the bottom of their seniority list.

 

[Monster Buck]

ASA hired furloughed Delta pilots....but the 900s aren't coming to ASA....DALPA doesn't give a d@mn about any of us....

Quit with the revisionist history and DALPA belly aching...

The only thing the CMR MEC was guilty of was not pandering to the DAL MEC....

If a mainline MEC wants help...there needs to be quids....No quids....Pound sand......

Funny.....Half of all the civi guys in my new hire class were from ASA and none from Comair. I quess thats not what you want. Maybe DAL just keeps you there and give you smaller jets and pay instead.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

When Delta bought ASA and Comair they could have stapled those pilots to the bottom of Deltas seniority list. If they had, there would have been no Delta furloughs. The junior Delta pilots would have been flying left seat in 70 seat RJ's.

I could never understand at the time why any Delta pilot would object to having several thousand pilots stapled to the bottom of their seniority list.

I am hearing that the Delta MEC gets this and we may see something like start to play out very soon.

It would be a nice win-win for Delta Pilots and the wholly-owned carriers.