Comair's New President/Other Questions

[acarpe3448]

I can't believe the Delta propaganda machine is still pumping out that baseless crap about Comair not hiring Delta furloughs. That was a campaign to alter the blame and anger for the Delta furloughed pilots away from DALPA 5 years ago. Apparently some Delta pilot's still have that hook embedded in their cheek.

What about the letter put out by the Comair MEC. In this letter the union said that they felt there were significant safety issues with Comair hiring Delta pilots without a senority number resignation. Ok, fine! The letter went on to state that if Delta would ease or eliminate our scope clause that the safety issue would not be a factor and the Comair pilots would agree to Delta furloughs being hired without giving up their senority numbers. The Comaier pilots were trying their best to get more airplanes for themselves, and bigger and better paying airplanes for themselves at the expense of Delta pilots. This letter is a fact! What is the Comair pilot's thaughts on that issue!

 

[DrewBlows]

What about the letter put out by the Comair MEC. In this letter the union said that they felt there were significant safety issues with Comair hiring Delta pilots without a senority number resignation. Ok, fine! The letter went on to state that if Delta would ease or eliminate our scope clause that the safety issue would not be a factor and the Comair pilots would agree to Delta furloughs being hired without giving up their senority numbers. The Comaier pilots were trying their best to get more airplanes for themselves, and bigger and better paying airplanes for themselves at the expense of Delta pilots. This letter is a fact! What is the Comair pilot's thaughts on that issue!

It's kind of hard to comment on a letter summarized by someone who is openly biased. If you want a real debate I suggest you post the letter.

 

[acarpe3448]

It's kind of hard to comment on a letter summarized by someone who is openly biased. If you want a real debate I suggest you post the letter.

I'll try to find it and post it.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Resigning one's seniority number is commonplace in the industry. Haviing two numbers poses some questions, should they be able to vote or hold elective office, for example.

The situation has been widely reported/distorted for years now but the bottom line was that furloughed Delta pilots were ultimately allowed to be hired without resigning thier seniority number. I'll repeat that, furloughed Delta pilots were hired and did not give up their Delta numbers. In fact, several furloughed Delta pilots went to the charter/fractional side of the company as well including a former Comair pilot.

These are facts that general and others seem to leave out.

Carry on, ladies.

 

[bvt1151]

What about the letter put out by the Comair MEC. In this letter the union said that they felt there were significant safety issues with Comair hiring Delta pilots without a senority number resignation. Ok, fine! The letter went on to state that if Delta would ease or eliminate our scope clause that the safety issue would not be a factor and the Comair pilots would agree to Delta furloughs being hired without giving up their senority numbers. The Comaier pilots were trying their best to get more airplanes for themselves, and bigger and better paying airplanes for themselves at the expense of Delta pilots. This letter is a fact! What is the Comair pilot's thaughts on that issue!

Simply put, that letter you're referring to doesn't exist. Safety issues? Sounds more like what DALPA would tell it's pilots if it really wanted to get them riled up against someone other than themselves.

Your spelling leaves about as much to be desired as the validity of your "facts."

 

[JoeMerchant]

ASA hired furloughed Delta pilots....but the 900s aren't coming to ASA....DALPA doesn't give a d@mn about any of us....

Quit with the revisionist history and DALPA belly aching...

The only thing the CMR MEC was guilty of was not pandering to the DAL MEC....

If a mainline MEC wants help...there needs to be quids....No quids....Pound sand......

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

I can't believe the Delta propaganda machine is still pumping out that baseless crap about Comair not hiring Delta furloughs. That was a campaign to alter the blame and anger for the Delta furloughed pilots away from DALPA 5 years ago. Apparently some Delta pilot's still have that hook embedded in their cheek.

I'll try this again with fewer words. I was a Comair flt ops manager during this time period.

There was no conspiricy.

In 2002, it was an emotional decision within the staff because there were a lot of pilots (and good friends) that wanted to come back.

Due to the cost of training etc., the decision was made to maintain the existing rules about resigning the seniority number before they were hired.

Simple subject, simple answer.. I wasn't a decision maker in this process, but was there while the subject was at hand and I can tell you that it wasn't one they wanted to make but had to budget wise.

 

[ozpilot]

When Delta bought ASA and Comair they could have stapled those pilots to the bottom of Deltas seniority list. If they had, there would have been no Delta furloughs. The junior Delta pilots would have been flying left seat in 70 seat RJ's.

I could never understand at the time why any Delta pilot would object to having several thousand pilots stapled to the bottom of their seniority list.

 

[Monster Buck]

ASA hired furloughed Delta pilots....but the 900s aren't coming to ASA....DALPA doesn't give a d@mn about any of us....

Quit with the revisionist history and DALPA belly aching...

The only thing the CMR MEC was guilty of was not pandering to the DAL MEC....

If a mainline MEC wants help...there needs to be quids....No quids....Pound sand......

Funny.....Half of all the civi guys in my new hire class were from ASA and none from Comair. I quess thats not what you want. Maybe DAL just keeps you there and give you smaller jets and pay instead.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

When Delta bought ASA and Comair they could have stapled those pilots to the bottom of Deltas seniority list. If they had, there would have been no Delta furloughs. The junior Delta pilots would have been flying left seat in 70 seat RJ's.

I could never understand at the time why any Delta pilot would object to having several thousand pilots stapled to the bottom of their seniority list.

I am hearing that the Delta MEC gets this and we may see something like start to play out very soon.

It would be a nice win-win for Delta Pilots and the wholly-owned carriers.

 

[captainv]

Simply put, that letter you're referring to doesn't exist. Safety issues? Sounds more like what DALPA would tell it's pilots if it really wanted to get them riled up against someone other than themselves.

Sorry BVT, but you're wrong on this one. As a CMR pilot, I disagreed vehemently with JC when this came out, but to no avail. As others have said, the CMR MEC doesn't decide who gets hired and who doesn't. Only the company has the power to drop the seniority resignation requirement. That said, JC decided to throw some more gas on the fire. [Sig, hope you don't mind me copying one of your old posts]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']TO: Comair Pilots[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATEecember 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

[/font]

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Sorry BVT, but you're wrong on this one. As a CMR pilot, I disagreed vehemently with JC when this came out, but to no avail. As others have said, the CMR MEC doesn't decide who gets hired and who doesn't. Only the company has the power to drop the seniority resignation requirement. That said, JC decided to throw some more gas on the fire. [Sig, hope you don't mind me copying one of your old posts]

I think what you are forgetting was the time frame that this happened. It was right after the strike and 9/11, and there was enough bad blood there where JC was smart in simply accepting the decision the company made.

As stated before, I'm no fan of JC or the union, but I remember clearly and can tell you that there wasn't a manager in the building that didn't want these pilots back, but changing the policy wasn't the right business decision at that point in time.

Once again, this is old news and none of the participants in those days are players there now. But there wasn't any kind of conspiricy.

 

[bvt1151]

Sorry BVT, but you're wrong on this one. As a CMR pilot, I disagreed vehemently with JC when this came out, but to no avail. As others have said, the CMR MEC doesn't decide who gets hired and who doesn't. Only the company has the power to drop the seniority resignation requirement. That said, JC decided to throw some more gas on the fire. [Sig, hope you don't mind me copying one of your old posts]

We're all agreeing around the same thing. I also was a Comair pilot at the time actively involved in the union. Trust me, this was blown way out of proportion and was nothing more than a PR battle between DALPA and Council 37.

 

[PuffDriver]

We're all agreeing around the same thing. I also was a Comair pilot at the time actively involved in the union. Trust me, this was blown way out of proportion and was nothing more than a PR battle between DALPA and Council 37.

The letter speaks for itself. What wasn't posted was the code-a-phone, or Comair's version of it, that indeed raised an issue of safety between Comair and Delta pilots in the same cockpit. It was real, and is probably still out there somewhere. Im sure that one of our guys has it.

 

[Hovernut]

Bean-counting was at hand. Pure bean-counting; probably on Leo Mullen's behalf. Multiple training cycles? Ha, let 'em get jobs at a non-wholly-owned. As I understand, only a handful of DAL ever took the job at ASA...probably under management's radar.

I had been on the property one whole month when that letter came out. Nevertheless, I wasn't too pleased with the language, as I'm sure much of the rank-and-file weren't as well. But, you've gotta admit, Delta owned us and could've told Comair to hire these guys plain and simple, bypassing the MEC. Looks like the respective managements won: they pitted two ALPA groups against one another and look what happened then and continues yet today.

C'mon, we dropped a Nuke on Japan and soon after they're our best friends. Now that "The One" is prez, can't we all just get along?