comair

[P38JLightning]

I don't think training costs are even a factor these days. First of all when you hire someone from a regional, its "usually" someone with Captain PIC time that tends to be in the upper half of the longevity scale anyway. Not always, but quite often. They are then replaced with a more junior Captain and his replacement (a "senior" FO) is replaced with a new hire at poverty wages, new hire vacation/sick accrual, lower 401(k) match, etc.

In addition to that, with so many regionals flying for anyone and everyone, it really doesn't matter anymore even if training costs were that big of a consideration, which they aren't anyway. Even when it did it matter many years ago, it was a miniscule cost that may have only been considered if it was "your" regional in the throws of crisis hiring, in many cases with 3 or 4 fleet types as well. Those days are long gone. It will pick up again with the retirements at mainlines in a few years, but it will just won't be that big of a factor. If you're hiring someone for 20-30+ years, a training event or two at a regional that you probably don't even own isn't even beer money to the people making the decisions.

 

[N2264J]

With 500+ furloughs coming in 2011/12, I don't think that's a problem since Comair isn't ever going to hire again.

Just to recap, this is the context of the conversation:

Fortunately for the furloughees ASA picked up the ball. As a result there have been a disproportionate number of ASA pilots hired at DL since 2007.

Goggles is asserting that ASA got the disproportionate nod because ASA pilots welcomed Delta furloughees although ASA didn't have the same hiring policy.
I'm saying there was a cost differential involved.

I don't think training costs are even a factor these days.

Any cost at every airline is always a factor.

 

[regionalcap]

Just to recap, this is the context of the conversation:



Goggles is asserting that ASA got the disproportionate nod because ASA pilots welcomed Delta furloughees although ASA didn't have the same hiring policy.
I'm saying the real reason is that there was a cost differential involved.



Any cost at every airline is always a factor.

My class had 6 guys from ASA in it. Most other regionals maybe had 1 or so. I firmly believe that the ASA hiring of Delta pilots plays a large role in getting hired at Delta. ASA treated them right and it has come back to pay off for the pilots.

 

[N2264J]

...I firmly believe that the ASA hiring of Delta pilots [without requiring them to resign their number at Delta] plays a large role in getting hired at Delta. ASA treated them right and it has come back to pay off for the pilots.

So your position is that the ASA pilots were disproportionally hired at Delta because of an ASA hiring policy the pilots had no control over.

Q Why don't the Delta pilots change the hiring criterion at Delta to favor Comair furloughees? They weren't here for the strike, didn't participate in the RJDC, and don't agree with Comair's hiring policy.

A Even if the Delta pilots wanted to, they couldn't. Hiring practices are not covered by the contract.

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Good for Briner. He was always decent to me but he was never comfortable in an airplane as long as I knew him. Where did Piper go?

Mike got out of the business altogether and is doing very well for himself. I know he misses the flying part and doesn't miss the rest of it.

 

[PudgeyDingus]

Piper!? I wonder how his SCAB problem is going?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I think that is an great idea. Delta should hire the junior cmr pilots. That would piss off the lifer's even more.

So your position is that the ASA pilots were disproportionally hired at Delta because of an ASA hiring policy the pilots had no control over.

Q Why don't the Delta pilots change the hiring criterion at Delta to favor Comair furloughees? They weren't here for the strike, didn't participate in the RJDC, and don't agree with Comair's hiring policy.

A Even if the Delta pilots wanted to, they couldn't. Hiring practices are not covered by the contract.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

So your position is that the ASA pilots were disproportionally hired at Delta because of an ASA hiring policy the pilots had no control over.

Q Why don't the Delta pilots change the hiring criterion at Delta to favor Comair furloughees? They weren't here for the strike, didn't participate in the RJDC, and don't agree with Comair's hiring policy.

A Even if the Delta pilots wanted to, they couldn't. Hiring practices are not covered by the contract.

Hi poindexter.
Looks like JC, Jessie, Dan and the rest of you girls are going to have to learn how to say, "wecome to walmart.":laugh:
It couldn't have happened to a nicer group!
Maybe you can get joemerchant to help you get on at ASA.

 

[wms]

So your position is that the ASA pilots were disproportionally hired at Delta because of an ASA hiring policy the pilots had no control over.

Q Why don't the Delta pilots change the hiring criterion at Delta to favor Comair furloughees? They weren't here for the strike, didn't participate in the RJDC, and don't agree with Comair's hiring policy.

A Even if the Delta pilots wanted to, they couldn't. Hiring practices are not covered by the contract.

The ASA pilots did have a say over the hiring policies. The company asked the MEC if we would be willing to give preferential interviews to DAL pilots and be willing to let them keep their seniority. The MEC agreed to it. And it was the MEC at OH (JC) that refused to do the same at Comair.

 

[wms]

/////

 

[Scope out RJ's]

/////

Don't waste time looking for a response from n2264j. He's too busy filling out job application forms.:laugh:
His dream of becoming a millionaire 777 captain got shattered by a frivilous lawsuit.

 

[doh]

A lot of people dropped the ball in regards to DL furloughees. Fortunately for the furloughees ASA picked up the ball. As a result there have been a disproportionate number of ASA pilots hired at DL since 2007.

This doesn't change the fact that Lawson took advantage of Delta furloughs in a cynical attempt to weaken Delta's scope, instead of helping them out.

He played a short game when he should have looked past his own retirement. He could be remembered as the man who bridged the gap. Instead his legacy will forever be one of unnecessary pain.

 

[PuffDriver]

Oh sure, empty gestures, pandering and window dressing beats out substance every time at ALPA. It's all about the image.



Someone would have had to offset the training costs of putting Delta furloughees, who had no intention of making Comair a career, in Comair seats plus whatever scheduling burdens might come to the Comair pilot group from numerous furloughees a month being called back to mainline, which manifests itself as junior manning and extentions. The fact is that because Comair was a wholly owned subsidiary, the Delta MEC could have gone to Delta management and bought that policy change themselves but they didn't want to.

What goes unsaid is that all ALPA furloughees were welcomed at Comair. I've flown with United and US Airways furloughees who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being here. The only pilot group that suffered from the much ballyhooed righteous indignation are the Delta pilots who seemed to have this "birthright" sense of entitlement to our seats.

The Delta pilots made it very clear to us during the merger petition in 2000, that we were separate companies. They got what they wanted yet they're the ones screaming the loudest about it.

:bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:

All in with a pair of two's doesn't always pan out for you.

 

[PuffDriver]

The fact is, if a Comair pilot fits the profile, Delta will hire you. The disadvantage comes from Delta picking up all the training events if they hire a Comair pilot - ie training at mainline, training a replacement at Comair (two evolutions if they hire a Comair captain). If they hire an ASA pilot, however, they're only paying for one training evolution at mainline so the Comair pilot has to score more points in the interview to justify the added expense.

But I'm sure management sincerely appreciates the help of Delta pilots in driving wedges in a pilot group preparing for Section 6. Really, you guys have no moral authority to lecture anyone about what's disgusting in a union.

:bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[PuffDriver]

Refresh my memory...What did the Delta MEC do for the Eastern pilots who were out of work while Delta picked up their former routes?

:bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[doh]

Did you just discover a new smilie? Or are you just a dbag? Oh, never mind, I see who it is.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Puffdriver=Scope Out RJs=General Lee (duh)

What do you expect?

 

[PuffDriver]

Did you just discover a new smilie? Or are you just a dbag? Oh, never mind, I see who it is.

:bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:

Maybe if you guys weren't so set on doh you would not be in a different place today.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puffdriver=Scope Out RJs=General Lee (duh)

What do you expect?

Fail. Try again.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Fail. Try again.

Success, you're such a loser!