COMAIR vs NETJETS?

[BigFlyr]

Okaaaaaayyyyy....

Sorry, didn't mean to burst any bubbles or sound pompous, I'm really not...And by the way, my experience would not be in the BBJ, but the 737-800 and not much of it at that. Still, from a pilots's perspective it's not nearly as comfortable as a 727 for example because of the relatively small cockpit...Its all relative that's all I was saying.

I just wouldn't get all starry-eyed about flying the BBJ for Netjets, because from what I've heard, your chances of ever touching one are very remote.

Sorry if I've burst more bubbles!

 

[abenaki]

Apology accepted.........I just remember that enthusiasm and don't think it should be shot down indiscriminately......

And you are correct......The odds of seeing a BBJ might be slim now, but if that poster is young and hangs out a bit, who knows what he'll fly? Could be better than a BBJ!

I got into this thing at age 36 and was told (by the FBO who was taking my money but also kind enough to tell me the truth) that the odds of my "making'' it as a commerical pilot were slim due to my age and the cruddy economy......If you had told me in January of '93 that by Sept of '92 I'd have been a captain on a turbo-prop then a regional jet afterwards a "X", I would have thought that you were nuts......

Some dreams come true! Let the kid dream!

 

[gump88]

Go easy on BF. He is a good guy!! I think we all need a good dose of reality sometimes, myself included.

Carry on,
gump

 

[sparticusflt]

Let me all explain where Schaevola is coming from. I believe i met him on the road the other day and it explains why he is such a bitter little man.

I'm wondering if that was little Mikey? Now that was some serious fraud. If this is the guy you are talking about then nobody should listen to any of his comments at all. Schaevola, "Mike?" of all people should never have complained about low pay at NJA when he made thousands of dollars at the expense of pilots and NJA. He was very, very, very lucky not to goto jail. Hell he should be kissing NJA's ass for not pressing charges.

 

[Schaevola]

Don't need to look for me in impossible places. I have been with EJA for 4 unhappy years. Because of the economy it looks I will be stuck here for many years to come.
I have seen enough of this company to know what's all about. I know who you guys are also( for exemplu because of Mister Gump88 three good pilots got fired). You are the people who make this place a miserable place to be at. Because of you, my dear a#$kissers, backstubbers, and EJA's propagandists, the new contract will never be possible. We will never work for decent money in this company. The reason why people are applying to EJA is because are no jobs out there and economy is the way it is. If I remember well, before 9/11 we were not able to find any pilots(not to blame, not too many insanes to work 14 hours a day for 7 straight days up to 21 days a month for ONLY 27G a year, not including per diem because that everybody has it). We were saved by Comair's strike when many of their pilots in need of a job came over. THAT'S REALITY. THE REST IS BS from the same people. We have 2000 pilots but you see the same people on internet. Get a life guys. When you are coming home from rotation try to get a date or something and don't waist your youth on internet telling people how beautiful of a night you had looking to the moon from your 300 dollars a night room provided by your wonderful company called EJA. I'm in business to make money and not to admire the moon's beauty. AND SO FAR EJA PAYS US SH*T. PERIOD.

 

[Cliff]

Schaevola.....

Dude ????????????????

Your sick!

 

[gump88]

You are not worth a response. Good luck in your aviation endevours.

gump

 

[abenaki]

Hey Shaevola,

Somewhere on this board you said that you had "resigned", and now you're telling us that you're here and have been for 4 years......who do you think you're kidding?

You, my poor friend, have some MAJOR problems.....I sincerely suggest that you seek help......there is no shame in that, for sure.

But to cast accusations at other people on here and disparage their reputations is not only uncalled for, but, immoral......

Please, take care of yourself and look at your own heart....it is full of bitterness and contempt and one can only imagine what that is doing to your soul....

May God bless.....

 

[tdvalve]

"Somewhere on this board you said that you had "resigned", and now you're telling us that you're here and have been for 4 years......who do you think you're kidding? "


Following is a post from Shaevola dated 8/30/02. His story has changed somewhat since then.


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Regionals vs. Fractionals is Pilots vs. Something not Defined Yet(not 91 and not 135). At Regionals you are a 121 pilot. Such as Majors but to a smaller scale. The life quality is better and once you are upgraded money is better and schedule is better. AND THE MOST IMPORTANT YOU ARE A PILOT.
At fractionals(with all due respect toward NJA Capt - I see that he is the person in charge with NJA's Official Propaganda Bureau) the schedule is impossible, the money is......what money??? I don't remember to see any money working there. They treat you like a servant in the sky where that semi rich b@#$^ds can wash the floors with you. If you are serviable enough maybe you get a tip. Netjet's policy is to do not accept tips but in the same time NetJets's policy is to do not refuse the customer(go figure). I am a driver but not that kind of driver. I like to be respected for my profession, I don't like to get tipped, I don't like to kiss a@#$s.
I don't know how in the world NJA is doing good right now but something is smelly overthere? Maybe because they do 135 business under 91 rules??? I worked for EJA one year and I remember only a hand full of furtnukers to be happy there(that was before 09/11....now maybe is different. A job is a job). The general policy was if you want to keep your job you have to say that EJA is the best in the world, EJA is your mother and father, and if you had some critics better checked twice who you were talking to. Pay scale it looks the same. They are in discussions for more than 1 year by now. And I bet it will stay the same because NJA buys more planes, hires more pilots, more pilots on the street with no jobs SO NO MORE MONEY FOR PAY INCREASES.
How comes " the best fractionals in the world" are paid the less.
FO does a good jobs and you don't see them on this board so much. That means they mind their own business.
FlexJet pays a little better but the majority look unhappy with their management.
So my 2 cents opinion is that if I have to go back in time I will take regionals over fractionals.


__________________
In vino veritas.

 

[JPB]

Hi Joel
Nobody can answer this question but yourself. Maybe should you ask questions about schedule, money, and other considerations important to you.
NJA is good, solid and expanding rapidly. A new contract is on the way for the end of next year (?) and should make it a better place to work.
Fundamentally a certain number of things won't change: For instance, you will never have a turn around day. In other words, you will spend 1/2 of your life away from home regardless of you seniority.
The schedule are made 3 months in advance with a "rigid pattern" such as 7/7 or 6/5, 5/5, 6/2... As a result, it is not possible to bid 2 off periods back to back.
Remember that 90% of the advisers don't know 121 ops and the 10% were forced out.
As far as the money, it should be about the same or maybe better by the end of the contract ( i don't know how much a 5 year capt makes at Comair).
You will work 12 to 14 hours a day (show time not wake up time). Not just preflighting and flying but cleaning, catering,...
Since your time off duty is 10 hours, your personal life is limited to eat and sleep during a tour; no city visit, beer, exercise,...
Money is only a small part of the question. Quality of life and personal pride are also to be considered.

Don't get me wrong: This company is the best in the business and it is one of the best alternative to the majors.

Good luck. Either way you are in pretty good shape.

 

[Lumber Yak]

How do you like Netjets and the X now?

Hey Joel,

Just wondering what you thought of Netjets and the Citation X now that you are on the line. How does it compare to your job at Comair? Does the Citation X measure up to your expectations? Have you flown anywhere exotic in the X - what are your trips like?

Thanks and good luck!

 

[abenaki]

Hey Lumber Yak!

I thought this thread was long dead and buried.....I too, was at Comair.......thought I'd butt in and respond to your question.....

Prior to the strike, working for Comair management was simply awful......I left during the strike so I haven't got personal experience to relate to you, but after listening to friends still there, my conclusion is that it is BETTER there now. Not necessarily great, but certainly better. Schedules are better, the pay is better, the hotels are better...overall the quality of life is simply better for the Comair pilots and I don't know of a group of people who deserves it more than they do......They fought one hel-luva battle, and while it doesn't seem to be perceived as the vistory that they were hoping for, it was an improvement, no doubt.

Had the opportunity to visit some friends at Comair recently and attend some of the 25th anniversary stuff. My (biased) impression from that and conversations around the place was that not that much has changed about managements attitude towards the airline and its people. In my opinion, it continues to be a lot of lip service as to how great they are at the same time applying some of the same pressures as they did before the strike. But, that's just my limited perspective from an admittedly biased point of view.

I knew when I left that I could not work for such people again. And my visit reinforced that notion. That said, you won't find a better group of pilots and flight attendents anywhere. Just ask around about the unity of the pilot group during the strike and the support that they had from the fllight attendants.

Net Jets is a completely different thing. It's somewhat hard to compare. My pay is lower by a healthy chunk, but for me the lifestyle, the lack of commuting any longer, the treatment and support by management and the atmosphere of the place makes up for that (at least until our next contract!!!!). We stay in excellent hotels (and get to keep the points), get truly fine catered meals on the road (no more grabbing a burger at McD's), fly beautiful airplanes (they wash, wax, polish the birds about every two months) that are well-maintained.

The X is a hoot. Not as crisp in handling as the RJ with that 40 degree swept wing and artificial feel controls, but it goes! A lear will outclimbitoff the deck, but once the X hits about 30000', it's GONE. We generally climb at 1500-2000 FPM in the '30's at .82 Mach and ACCELERATING. I've done 1500FPM at .88 Mach.

I also like the variety of trips that we have. I've been as far west/north as Anchorage and as far east as St. Maarten and a lot of places inbetween.....It's fun stuff. You go to work, get your airplane, fly it around (empty on a lot of legs) and go home.

I love it. Not that Comair is a bad choice. If I were to go to a "regional" (I wish they'd get rid of THAT misnomer), I'd make Comair my first choice in terms of growth, stability, pilot and F/A group.....you can have their management...... I'll take NJA's.

Best wishes.....

 

[Lord Wakefield]

First a disclosure: When Comair went on strike, EJA hired a bunch of Comair pilots. After the strike, most returned taking Ce-750 and DA2000 types with them.

Personally, I think this was stupid but this was pre-911 and some can't get past the notion that EJA : isn't scheduled, isn't 121, isn't an airline, etc. Forget the fact that the dispatch release has a lot more info than any dot matrix printout I've ever seen an "airline pilot" pick up aat the counter.

If you come to EJA, I think you'll find the lifestyle a whole lot better than the Regionals. Retired/furloughed airline pilots have said the same (with the exception that They remind us that the pay sux)

At EJA you won't get tired from working hard. Even Ultra Check pilots only fly 40-50hrs/mo. What will wear you down is the way rest is currently/contractually interpreted as starting after duty ends rather than before briefed duty begins (see previous posts for the 2am wake up call after 10 hrs rest)

If you're hell bent on getting to the Majors, you may want to reconsider . Except for Delta's Plato Rynnes who put EJA management on notice early in 2001 that they intended to recruit agressively from EJA's ranks, most recruiters shy away. Theirs is a small world and despite what you'll hear about the training, dispatch, equipment.......it's still, to them: not scheduled, not 121, not an airline, it's just good ol' part 91 screwin' around. But what do they know? After all, how long did it take them to realise that military pilots weren't the only ones who knew how to fly?

Unfortunately, applicants don't make the rules; employers do.

 

[abenaki]

Just one correction/perception that I'd like to clear up, Lord Wakefield....

Yes, NJA did hire a bunch of us from Comair during the strike in '01. There is NO ONE, to my knowledge, that received a type rating of any kind who then went back to Comair. The time frame involved simply didn't allow that.

Now, I personally know of TWO that started sim training and decided to go back well before getting their type, but, I don't know of anyone who completed any portion of the training and returned to Comair.

According to the secretary in the Chief Pilots' Office at Comair, there were a totalof 47 Comair pilots who went to NJA and who stayed. I beg to differ with you that "most returned". To my knowledge, there were only two or three that had reported for training who decided to return. That does not mean that there weren't more, but, to say that "most returned" after getting types is highly inaccurate to my understanding.

Now, I WILL agree that there may have been quite a number who were OFFERED positions at NJA who ACCEPTED those position who did not show up at NJA for training as a result of the strike ending. Theer may have been quite a bunch of those guys, but I am unfamiliar with the numbers.

Just to throw it in the mix, I don't know of ANY former Comair pilot now at NJA who isn't VERY pleased to be here. And that list would include not only myself, but about 15 or more of my brethren with whom I have maintained some kind of contact since arriving here..
As stated above, I could not work for those s o b 's over there any longer and am very happy to be here under considerably better circumstances.

 

[jppt2000]

If you're hell bent on getting to the Majors, you may want to reconsider . Except for Delta's Plato Rynnes who put EJA management on notice early in 2001 that they intended to recruit agressively from EJA's ranks, most recruiters shy away. Theirs is a small world and despite what you'll hear about the training, dispatch, equipment.......it's still, to them: not scheduled, not 121, not an airline, it's just good ol' part 91 screwin' around.

Not that anyone's going anywhere soon, I've been told the opposite. Hmmm, SWA, UAL, DAL, and Jet Blue recruiters must have it all backwards Lord Wakefield.
I went to a recruiting seminar a couple of years ago, they all said they were very familiar with what Netjets, er EJA at that time, did.

I asked the same question about the "121" time. Really no big deal to them. UAL guy said "that's what we've got groundschool for".

Everyone at NetJets passes a 135 PIC check. We primarily operate part 91, but from time to time we fly 135.

Oh, everyone of them said they knew we were responsible for "everything" with the flight. Along with "121" stuff we're responsible for passenger service, catering, ground servicing, performance planning, essentially everything.

A retired airline pilot told me last trip, NetJets along with the other fractionals have become what the airlines were in the 1930's-50's.

Majors along with their "regionals"overnight have become the buslines of the 1960's and on.

"121" time, wow, I didn't know going back and forth to the hub could be so difficult.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I've been told the opposite. Hmmm, SWA, UAL, DAL, and Jet Blue recruiters must have it all backwards Lord Wakefield.
I went to a recruiting seminar a couple of years ago, they all said they were very familiar with what Netjets, er EJA at that time, did.

I asked the same question about the "121" time. Really no big deal to them. UAL guy said "that's what we've got groundschool for".

A retired airline pilot told me last trip, NetJets along with the other fractionals have become what the airlines were in the 1930's-50's.

Majors along with their "regionals"overnight have become the buslines of the 1960's and on.

"121" time, wow, I didn't know going back and forth to the hub could be so difficult.

I think we disagree less than you think. I was just sharing the sentiment that I had heard for so long about EJA flying versus "real airline experience" (which could be something as far removed from flying a Boeing as a BE-1900C)

If you look at my post, you'll see that I acknowledged DAL as an exception (even mentioned Plato by name) BTW, I've heard the same about Jet Blue (a name even dumber than NetJets) and SWA. But they were only rumours when I heard them. As for for UAL, I was told to leave EJA and get some 121 time 4 years ago. I declined as I had just left a POS commuter flying turboprops to come to EJA. Now, I'm counseling UAL furloughees. But that was a long time ago comparatively speaking; EJA didn't have 1800 pilots and was only a blip on the radar. Most airline pilots would go: Who?

Back then, every time you airlined you had to explain that you weren't jumpseating. Folks asked: Going to work or going home? Then look puzzled when you said : "Nope, day 4 of 6."

Personally, I think any EJA pilot who wants to be an airline pilot would be well equipt. I know of no EJA pilot washing out at the majors. The reverse can't be said.

But, working at a commuter COULD get you hired by a major BEFORE you even met EJA minimum qualifications.

 

[fanman]

I have to laugh at some of you guys on here glorifying Net Jets versus the Regionals. While I have not worked at a "Fractional", I have worked corporate charter, followed by a regional, then a major, furloughed back to a corporate jet charter job.
I may be just me, but waiting for some jack ass who is already three hours late to show up the airport is really thrilling. Oh yeah, that Citation X really comes in handy, when you need to hurry up because you are already at duty hour fourteen. Dont forget the milk and papers! Can I get your bag sir?
As far as flying a "clunker CRJ", I get to fly a clunker "Hawker 800" around...What a piece of SH*T...Oh yeah I forgot, I get to go to those many different airports...When are you guys going to realize flying is flying....It comes down to quality of life, schedule, days off...Not knowing where I am off to, except when my days off start does not thrill me...Kinda like permanent reserve status. I am not bashing Net Jets...I think they are a great company, however, those who have not been exposed to having an airline type schedule, I think don't know what they are missing.
While I did get furloughed, I would not change a thing in my career. Right now I get 8 hard days off a month, plus 2 soft for the charter company I work for. Pay is comprable to Net Jets salary. I think scheduled 121 is the way to go, I would vote to go the Comair route.

 

[fanman]

Please excuse the above text mistakes...Forgot the grammer check!!!

 

[Diesel]

...Not knowing where I am off to, except when my days off start does not thrill me...Kinda like permanent reserve status

That pretty much sums up your view on this job. This job isn't for everyone. I see it every day, guys who thought this job was like the airlines. It's not it will never be the same. That's what makes us different.

I may be just me, but waiting for some jack ass who is already three hours late to show up the airport is really thrilling. Oh yeah, that Citation X really comes in handy, when you need to hurry up because you are already at duty hour fourteen.

Actually this isn't a problem. If the pax is 3 hours late he has to pay quite a large fee. This fee starts for every fifteen minutes he's late from the departure time. So they are about 90 percent on time. The PM won't even let you leave the chocks if you are going to come close to going past 14.

3 hrs late. There will be another crew to do the trip.

I am not bashing Net Jets

How is this not bashing NJA, FLOPS, FLEXJET, or CS?

While I have not worked at a "Fractional", I have worked corporate charter, followed by a regional, then a major, furloughed back to a corporate jet charter job.

These jobs aren't anything like a fractional. Not even close.

 

[gump88]

I have done BOTH.......over 5000 hours 121 time and recently completed my first year with NetJets. There is NO comparison. I will NEVER go back to scheduled 121. You guys are comparing beer and champagne!

My .02 worth!
gump