COMAIR vs NETJETS?

[Dep676]

Well I would say that's one for Joel and zip for Surplus1.

BTW, What is this about kool-aid drinking. I guess I have been missing something here.

Joel,

Go for the NETJETS gig. Good luck and hope you get the offer.

 

[jppt2000]

All the reasons you gave about what you ar "interested in" indicate clearly to me that you really are not cut out for being an airline pilot, especially not at my airline.

Okay, I'll have to respond on this one.
First of all, I have met many ex-regional pilots at EJA er Netjets.
I guess as you say they were not cut out to be "airline" pilots.
Maybe they did their homework. There is no comparison to the quality of life at Netjets to Comair. I came from ASA and I feel ASA is, was, treated better than Comair.
I feel, and this is just my opinion, Comair pilots who accepted that Contract lowered the bar for all "regional" pilots.
Numbers don't lie. Do your math. What will you be making at age 60? I sure hope you aren't counting on that pension plan from Comair.
I can assure anyone thinking about coming to Netjets from a regional that they will NEVER do the type of flying we do at Netjets. Well, maybe if they get a transcontinental RJ. Of course that will be scoped out by the Union that supposedly represents you.
There were Comair guys hired at Netjets that went back to Comair. I feel sorry for them.

 

[JetProp]

Joel,
I left the regionals for NJA and I'm glad I made the move. No regrets..
Take care...

Surplus1...get over yourself!

 

[EMB145]

I am Disappointed Surplus 1!

I remember your well articulated arguments against CAL / CALEX joining ALPA. Do you remember, on flyforums.com?
Regardless of agrre or disagree with this person, you should have been much more tactful, IMHO.
What a pitty, wasting away credebility like this.

 

[Lumber Yak]

Better to be with a market leader than a market follower like Comair. If given the choice of flying a mach .92 Citation X into Aspen vs. flying a CRJ into Omaha and Dayton all of the time - I'd take the Citation X anytime...

I have many friends who fly with Netjets and they all LOVE it. I also have a few friends at Comair and they are either jaded after 1 year or they hate it and are only looking to fly for the majors (and wait 5 years for the furloughs to be called back).

Surplus 1, you are a piece of work. Let me guess, ex-Eastern? Your tone was VERY obnoxious.

 

[surplus1]

Re: I am Disappointed Surplus 1!

I remember your well articulated arguments against CAL / CALEX joining ALPA. Do you remember, on flyforums.com?
Regardless of agrre or disagree with this person, you should have been much more tactful, IMHO.
What a pitty, wasting away credebility like this.

Yes I remember and I was right about that too. If you haven't figured that out yet you surely will. Just ask an ALG or PDT pilot how great it is to be shafted by your own union. For that matter, ask a real CMR pilot.

Sorry if I wasn't tactful. We've worked too long and too hard to make something out of this airline for me to worry much about being tactful. I don't want our ranks infiltrated by people who don't want to be here.

According to Joel he's been here 6 months and he's looking for another job. Then why did he come in the first place? To make this a "stepping stone"? To play with us for awhile? We're too serious about this and our futures, it's not a game, it's our career.

There are too many people in regionals that want stepping stones, and too many green pilots complaining because they can't upgrade in a year, or they have to be on reserve, for six months, etc. and that's one of the primary reasons it is so difficult to make any progress. My pilot group is different. Yes, there are people who change jobs from time to time and I don't get angry with them for doing it.

But when somebody with 2600 hours has been here for 6 months and is looking already, and telling me that he's looking for "quality of life/pay/time off/benefits/vacation etc." all of which I just risked my career to get and which he is now benefiting from without participating or sacrificing anything, he has wasted my Company's money, our training departments time, and has no real concern for becoming one of us.

I don't want to deal or have to fly with anyone who isn't "one of us". Therefore I encourage him to accept the job and move on before we have to waste any more time or effort. He feels he's wasting time with us and I guess I agree with him.

If that's arrogant then I guess I'm arrogant. I call it loyalty to my fellow Comair pilots and to my company that I helped to build. And by the way that Company isn't Delta, it's Comair. This is "ours", we built it from nothing, I'm proud of it, and I don't want to hear anything about how lousy it is from some new hire that has put zero effort in to making this or anything else in aviation better. When you've been here long enough to know something and you're one of us, then you can criticize the rest of us. It takes more than 6 months to cut that mustard.

Anyone that wants to be a part of it is welcome to come, to join with us and make it still better; anyone who doesn't is welcome to leave and preferably won't come at all.

I'm sure NetJets is a fine Company and he'll be happier there. No hard feelings, just reality.

By the way yes, I'm old but I'm still fiesty as h_ll.

 

[Joel]

Surplus1,

I don't recall ever saying anything about being unhappy with COMAIR...you are so fascinated with quoting me, when did I say that??

In fact, I am happy at COMAIR and have been treated very well for a junior perosn on reserve. No complaints...but...if I have the chance to better myself I am going to go for it. In fact, If NetJets had called me earlier I never would have graced your beloved airline with my presence. Arrogant...maybe, but you get the point.

Loyalty?? There is no loyalty in business...just ask all the hard working, loyal, furloughed pilots out on the street. Or better yet, ask all the Orlando pilots that have been displaced?? I feel for them, but I don't want to be one. I think NetJets has more job security than COMAIR and better pay/benefits/quality of life/vacation etc...................................Joel

 

[Dep676]

It sounds like Surplus1 is a little bitter. Being old and crusty and stuck at Comair. I sense a little jealous tone that he has to stay and didn't get to the majors. Now it's too late in his old career. Just my thought.

 

[JimNtexas]

Re: Re: I am Disappointed Surplus 1!

Sorry if I wasn't tactful. We've worked too long and too hard to make something out of this airline for me to worry much about being tactful. I don't want our ranks infiltrated by people who don't want to be here.

According to Joel he's been here 6 months and he's looking for another job. Then why did he come in the first place? To make this a "stepping stone"? To play with us for awhile? We're too serious about this and our futures, it's not a game, it's our career.

....But when somebody with 2600 hours has been here for 6 months and is looking already, and telling me that he's looking for "quality of life/pay/time off/benefits/vacation etc." all of which I just risked my career to get and which he is now benefiting from without participating or sacrificing anything, he has wasted my Company's money, our training departments time, and has no real concern for becoming one of us.
...
I don't want to deal or have to fly with anyone who isn't "one of us". l.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to ask, is Comair a company or a religion? This is a capitalist country. If an employee is hired, shows up, and does his job he or she is entitled to receive the agreed on paycheck.

What if the shoe is on the other foot, and Comair decides that it doesn't need as many pilots, and this junior pilot gets laid off? Are you going to pay his salary? Did Comair promise him lifetime employment? Are Comair new guys indentured servants?

You need to learn that this is a capitalist country. It is not treason for an employee to consider changing jobs at any point if that is better for him. It has nothing to do with his skill as a pilot. It's called being a Free American.

Instead of attacking the guy, you ought to do what you can to make Comair a better place to work, then maybe people won't be thinking about leaving the congregation after a few months. Maybe start by letting some air pressure out of the space between your ears.

Jim

 

[ozpilot]

I left Comair for Netjets at the end of the strike a year ago. I was a third year Captain at Comair.

For me it was the right decision. All the good points posted above about Netjets are pretty much true. You should be aware however, that flying for a scheduled airline – such as Comair – does have some advantages over fractional flying. Its like comparing driving a limo vs. driving a bus.

As a limo driver you will be expected to have a greater interaction with the passengers, and you will not have the level of support in the field that you have at an airline. If you piss off a passenger at an airline and they don’t come back, it has a minimal impact on the company’s bottom line. If you do it at a fractional where the owner is a multimillionaire it can mean your job.

At Comair its easy to fly a four day trip and never even talk to a passenger; At Netjets you are expected to be not only the pilot but also the customer service representative. You are also expected to be the baggage handler, caterer, aircraft cleaner, security, EMS person etc. etc. Remember that unless you are in the Falcon or the BBJ you will not have the benefit of a Flight Attendant. There’s a reason our company recurrent takes a week! Our job is not just transportation; it is to spoil our passengers rotten. At Netjets ‘whatever it takes’ means just that. Personally I like dealing with my passengers at this level, but if you think your job as a pilot is to simply fly the plane it may not be for you.

At Netjets they expect two things from their pilots: Performance and Attitude. Netjets will tell you that safety is number one and they mean it. In the year that I have been here I have seen numerous examples where the company has put safety before customer consideration. So you must be able to meet the performance standards.

Attitude is also important. Fourteen hour days are not uncommon and you will be expected to deliver the same level of service on the last leg as you did on the first. On the plus side the company is smart enough to realize that the level of service expected by our owners, at the end of the day, is delivered by the pilots. The company will go to extraordinary measures to help us deliver. If you visit Columbus take a tour of the Operations center. Half the people support the customers. Guess what the other half do? They support the pilots. I don’t recall too many of those at Comair.

The bus driver also has the advantage of a fixed schedule. As a limo driver you work schedule is subject to constant change. There are only two things you can be sure of: the company will not touch you on your days off and you will get at least 10 hours of rest each day. But unlike Comair you will find yourself in situations where you are available to the company but not on duty as far as rest is concerned. Its complicated so let me use an example.

Say you finish a trip at 4 in the afternoon. The company tells you that you will be starting you next trip at 10 am the next morning. So far, so good. But according to our contract the company can (and often does) call you out ten hours later (at 2 am) for a trip. So what do you do? Do you go to sleep at 4 (assuming that you can) in order to be awake for 2 or plan to sleep later for the 10 show? The problem is that your14 hours of duty commence when the company calls you, not at the end of your rest period.

If they call you at 2 its possible that you may not have had sufficient sleep. Now let’s say you go to sleep immediately and awake at 2 am but you don’t start until 10. Now its possible for you to be awake for 22 hours (8 + 14) before you next rest period.

Does this sound like a fatigue issue? You bet it is, but here’s the big difference between Comair and Netjets. If you tell Netjets you are too tired to fly then that’s the end of the story. The company does not want you to fly fatigued. Work rules in the Comair contract are more stringent but I believe they are there because they need to be.

Bottom line: For me the disadvantages of working at Comair had everything to do with how the company treated us and little to do with the nature of the business. At Netjets the disadvantages are all related to the nature of the business which the company does its best to minimize. I love it, but its not for everyone.

Good Luck.