Comair vs. ACA

[captainv]

OK everyone, I'd appreciate your input on this....

I've been accepted by Comair and ACA but haven't been given dates yet. it sounds like comair will take much longer to get a class, although i'd get the CRJ vs. probably a J-41 at ACA. (not a snob thing, but most of my experience is with jets, whereas i've only looked inside a King Air a few times).

should i worry about which is better long-term or just take the first job that comes to me?

 

[JTrain]

Do a search + look for threads 2-3months old or more. This topic has been discussed thoroughly many times on this board

 

[Pilot877]

Why do you think you would get the J41 at ACA? They are hiring into all 3 aircraft types (CRJ, J41, and D328J). From what I have seen, more folks are going into the CRJ than anything else.

 

[Beavis]

Wait for whichever one works out best for you. Choose by quality of life issues.....what location works best for you, what kind of contract does each have, etc.. Dont go to one or the other because they called first. Go where you most want, or you may regret it later.

 

[treetop flyer]

Where do you want to live?

ACA has more pilot bases than Comair...I can't remember them all...maybe a Blue Ridger could chime in here. I think they are: BOS, LGA, DCA, ORD & CVG. Comair has one pilot base in CVG and is (to the best of my knowledge) opening one sometime next year in Dallas, TX. Commuting is NOT fun (especially for reserve) but if you have to live somewhere other than an available base, you should consider which company offers the closest domicile. Your significant other will thank you and you'll get to enjoy spending your time off AT home rather than trying to GET home

At any rate, best of luck with your decision. You're in a good spot!

Treetop

 

[Rich Man]

Which one you like best?

If you had to choose between CMR and ACA today, and the A/C is not a factor (Cuz, taking from your experience you might end up flying Jets @ ACA anyway), If you could take your pick, and they both call and both say come to training Monday "x" of such month; which would you choose.

Do you have a favorite? if so, which will it be, ok, so you found one, now think that the one u like best is going to make you wait 1 week longer, is it still worth it? and keep going untill you find where is the balance.

Which one has more of the things you are looking for in an airline and how long are you willing to wait for them.

On the other hand, think that you are in a really good place to be at with todays economy, most people don't have 1 job offer, you have two. So either dessision is a good one, they are both good regionals, minor differences, see if those differences are big enough for you to chose between one or the other.



Now on a more selfish note, if you interviewd at Comair between March and June, I think you should go to ACA , If you interviewd between July and today.... then Im fine, stay at Comair!!! JK

LOL


Rich!

 

[Hosed COEX]

I have to disagree with Beavis above about not giving weight to the first one who offers you a class date. It's such a major cliche and you've all heard it before, but I'll say it anyway: "Seniority is everything". Both are great airlines so you can't go wrong either way. I agree with Treetop that if you have a real preference for domicile I'd probably put that above seniority. ACA domiciles are now IAD, ORD, CVG and BOS. LGA closes next month.

And from what I know of our hiring process, you'll probably get the CRJ with your experience. Good luck with the decision!

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

When I first read the question, my response was " what kind of question was that?" But then I realized that some one in your position, being on the out side looking in, most likely would not have the prospective that some one who has been in the industry for a while has.

In my opinion, ACA would be the wrong choice by a long shot. And here is why. ACA is a contract carrier. Comair is a wholly owned. With all the aircraft we have on order, it is just a matter of time until the contract carriers at Delta will be gone. Leo Mullin, the CEO of Delta, wanted to get as much market share with the RJ as fast as he could while the aircraft is still fairly new to the market. So, until he can fill the market with his own jets, he is using contract carriers.

Our contract is better, and ACA pilots have little chance of improving theirs in the future. Why? The pilot group at ACA did not show any desire to have an industry leading contract. Why do I say that? They basically folded after just 10 months of talks, when the average section 8 talks take 3+ years. That was there choice, and I am only stating facts. As a contract carrier, it is true that the company does has less to offer, so maybe they were correct in there stance.

Being at Comair for eight years, I can say the company is top notch, and if you would like, I will fax you parts of our contract if it will help you.

Thank You

 

[walkthasky]

what was that??? all i heard was "blah blah blah blah blah." Here we go again, someone is bashing on an airline. Good Luck in here buddy!

 

[RJPilott]

sorry, i cant take this guy anymore. Not that i am defending our contract or putting it down. But we negotiated 10 months for our contract. Comair negotiated 3 years AND went on strike only to settle for ACA+1%. That is only pay. Everything else Comair fought for, for so long, is on par with ACA QOL. Also, we STILL can pick up our phone on days off and tell Scheduling to pound sand if they ask us to fly a trip. Who got the better deal? Why are WE responsible for YOUR contract? I mean hell, you guys fought for so long. Why did you dump it short? Perhaps if ACA pilots get Comair+1% on our next negotiations we can blame Comair pilots for "selling out" on such a short strike. I mean if you're gonna do it, DO IT RIGHT... right? But no, i wont take that stance, nor will the majority of 1700 other ACA pilots cause we have class and respect our "Fellow aviators". We even wrote checks out of our own pockets for our FELLOWAVIATORS in support of their efforts. AFELLOWAVIATOR, you're not much of "a fellow aviator". Our contract was industry leading at the time. Did we hold out and break the mold like UAL pilots did? No. We also didnt furlough one pilot. Matter of fact, i think we hired about 300 so far and still hiring strong. Upgrades are going as little as 6 months. This all in the face of Dornier going bankrupt and UAL on the verge of doing the same. Imagine if Comair was faced with the same. I would imagine you would be an FO again or close to it. I have a few buddies at Comair, have met many Comair pilots that were very professional and pleasant. Im glad you seem to be the exception at Comair rather than the norm with your "chip-on-the-shoulder" attitude. Get a grip bud.

As for the original question. ACA or Comair are both great airlines with similar contracts. If its money you're looking for, I made 45K my second full year as an FO at ACA. I didnt pick up much open time. Most of my pick up's were to cover trips i had dropped. Hosed CoEx put it well. Good luck with your choice.

 

[Av8tor]

"Amen" RJPilott great post! AFELLOWAVIATOR Shut up already, Im sick of your crap blaming us for your lame contract!

 

[Flash 7]

I have read both contracts and I know both Comair and ACA pilots.

From what I've read and heard Comair and ACA pay are about the same. The only difference in that area would be that Comair flys the 70 seaters with a lot more on the way and those pay rates of course are higher than anything ACA flys.

Other minor diferences in the contracts are that Comair has a Commuting clause, ACA doesn't.

But, ACA has a lot more bases to choose from than Comair.

Comair has duty rig & Trip Rig.

Comair pays for a hotel in between CDO pairings.

Comair has a company funded pension & 401K matching.

I didn't see anything in the ACA contract that matched this.


As far as the schedules go. I just looked at a Bid package for both Companys and In my opinion Comair seemed to have slightly better Schedules with More lines with more time off (CRJ BID lines for both, CVG & ORD). I think as Commuter Comair would be a little easier.

I'm not in any way trying to bash ACA, I think they are a Great Company. However, Besides pay I think Comair has a better Package to offer.

Of Course flying for Eagle I can tell you that both contracts look much better than ours!

 

[Av8tor]

I have read both contracts and I know both Comair and ACA pilots.

From what I've read and heard Comair and ACA pay are about the same. The only difference in that area would be that Comair flys the 70 seaters with a lot more on the way and those pay rates of course are higher than anything ACA flys.

Other minor diferences in the contracts are that Comair has a Commuting clause, ACA doesn't.

But, ACA has a lot more bases to choose from than Comair.

Comair has duty rig & Trip Rig.

Comair pays for a hotel in between CDO pairings.

Comair has a company funded pension & 401K matching.

I didn't see anything in the ACA contract that matched this.


As far as the schedules go. I just looked at a Bid package for both Companys and In my opinion Comair seemed to have slightly better Schedules with More lines with more time off (CRJ BID lines for both, CVG & ORD). I think as Commuter Comair would be a little easier.

I'm not in any way trying to bash ACA, I think they are a Great Company. However, Besides pay I think Comair has a better Package to offer.

Of Course flying for Eagle I can tell you that both contracts look much better than ours!

#1. ACA does have a commuter policy.
#2. We do have a company match on our 401K
#3. Comair doesn't have an ORD base, ACA does.

Please Get you facts straight before you post.

 

[RJPilott]

Other minor diferences in the contracts are that Comair has a Commuting clause, ACA doesn't.

Yes we do have a commuting policy. It is a carry over from our last contract. We also have 2 airlines that provide free travel passes to ACA. (UAL,DL)

But, ACA has a lot more bases to choose from than Comair.

Comair has duty rig & Trip Rig.

Comair pays for a hotel in between CDO pairings.

Comair has a company funded pension & 401K matching.

I didn't see anything in the ACA contract that matched this..

ACA has all of the above, however our rigs leave something to be desired. We get 1 for 2 on CDO pairings and paid hotel. Any time we spend 5 or more hours at an airport, we get a hotel, paid. 4 hour min block per day based on a "look back" for the month. Also something to consider, ACA does NOT pay for hotel during training and only 200/wk during training. Im not too sure about company funded pension (dont think we have it), but we do have 401k. Hope this helps......


whoops, looks like i posted the same time as Av8tor. oh well

 

[Beechnut]

Hey Flash, I think you need to take another look at those contracts. In addition to being incorrect about ACA commuter clause there is another point that needs to be corrected. While Comair may (?) have a look back rig or a look back minimum day, they do NOT have trip and duty rigs.


S.

 

[Flash 7]

My mistake on the commuter Clause. That was carried over and ACA does have 401K matching but no pension (thats what I meant to say).

Someone from Comair can correct me, but it states that Comair has duty rig & trip rig. 1 for 2 and 1 for 3.75.


I think BOTH companys are Excellent in the regional market and you couldn't go wrong with either.


Personally given the choice, I would go to Comair.

 

[Beechnut]

Flash, what are you reading?

S.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I do not believe I was talking to any of you kids, the man wanted a prospective, and I gave it to him.

Another thing to consider is your stature in the industry. The likes of ACA, SKYWEST, CHITAGUA(however you spell that) are all independent, and when they use them to raid some ones base, they are not thought of very well. It is not there fault, they do not control any of it, but they are resented just the same.

Again, this is my prospective for the pilot who ask, if you children don't like what I have to say, I'm sorry. That's life.

 

[RJPilott]

...and when they use them to raid some ones base, they are not thought of very well. It is not there fault, they do not control any of it, but they are resented just the same.

Raid someones base? Are you referring to ACA coming to CVG? Hello... moron.... Comair is taking all the LGA flying. There is no "raid" as you put it. Its called a movement of flying. Hell, if it were up to me (and the majority of LGA pilots, FA's), you can have your 7 leg CVG-DAY (TOL,BNA, CRW etc etc) days and we'll go back to LGA. I hope this NYer runs into you in CVG. Im sure we'll have a good time. Well, i know i will at least

 

[Anaconda]

While Comair may (?) have a look back rig or a look back minimum day, they do NOT have trip and duty rigs.

we don't???

C. For each bid period, a pilot will be credited and paid, at the applicable rate of pay set
forth in paragraph A.1., above, the greater of the following:
1. Flight time, including any additional pay credits set forth in paragraph D., below
and displacement pay as set forth in paragraph E., below. Flight time will be
calculated by flight segment, using scheduled or actual block-to-block time,
whichever is greater.
2. One (1) minute of credit for each two (2) minutes of duty time calculated on a bid
period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2., below, this provision will not
apply to time spent in training.
3. One (1) minute of credit for each three and three-quarters (3¾) minutes of trip
time calculated on a bid period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2.,
below, this provision will not apply to time spent in training.
4. An average of four hours and twenty minutes (4:20) for each duty day calculated
on a bid period basis. Except as provided in paragraph E.2., below, this
provision will not apply to time spent in training.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

And by the way, some one named beechnut said we do not have trip and duty rigs. Comair contract section 3-4 par.c
1 for 2 day/ 4.20 min day/ 1 for 3.75 trip on a look back.

We have CD lines for those who wish to bid them. They average 185 hours of duty and pay 92 hours on average, with only about 30 to 40 hours of actual flying. If you are a commuter, you get a hotel (Holiday Inn) on the days you have to fly.

Our retirement is as follows.
401k/they match 50% of the first 5% you contribute

Also, we have a plan were the company makes annual contributions to each pilots retirement account. An amount that eguals:

0-4 YEARS 2% OF YOUR EARNINGS
5-9 YEARS 4%
10-14 6%
15-19 8%
20 + 10%

You are 100% vested after 5 years of service.

 

[Beechnut]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the information.

S.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

RJPILOTT,
You just don't get it, do you????????HELLLLOOOOOOOOO, IS THERE ANY ONE IN THERE?????


The LGA flying should be done by Pilots who fly for Comair, ASA, or Delta. And when we get enough jets, it will be. And any other route on the Delta system. I work in the training dept. at Comair, and we simply cannot train enogh pilots and Delta cannot get enough jets fast enough right now, so we are using ACA and Skywest to fill the void in the mean time.

 

[RJPilott]

RJPILOTT,
You just don't get it, do you????????HELLLLOOOOOOOOO, IS THERE ANY ONE IN THERE?????

yeah, i get it. I get the fact that if you really had "inside" info which you say that you have, you wouldnt be spouting off on an anonymous message board. Its a good theory you have. It would almost make sense and be credible if you had some crediblity and got your facts straight on a consistent basis. Im not saying what you say couldnt happen. Lots of things "could" happen including the demise of Delta itself. So far what you are saying is genuine crew room banter, also known as BS. Keep it up. I see it gains you alot of respect even in an anonymous environment. Perhaps you should get out on the line and see the "real" stories floating around instead of building FOM manuals. You would have a field day with all the rumors. I think it may even explode your brain... lol

do you really think Tom Moore and Kerry Skeen would put so much time and effort into something that will eventually become dust? Actions speak louder than words my friend. Our top brass along with Skywest top brass' actions speak WAY louder than some "guy in Comair training dept with 8 years at the company" spouting off on flightinfo.com.

if you cant get jets and train pilots fast enough, why are we able to hire at a faster pace and get jets at a rapid rate in order to fly for a company that is 99% bankrupt? Is it because we are so much cheaper than Comair? Is it because we are "sell-outs" on our last contract? Someone here doesnt get it. But i dont think its me..... But hey, if you wanna have your fun, you gotta do it somewhere. Be my guest bro.... I hope the people that tell you these stories are making you feel secure...

BTW, how did you live with yourself flying Delta routes before Delta bought Comair? Dude, you're funny...lol

 

[AirBoard]

The Final Word.....

Well now isn't this fun. Anyway....

Captainv, getting back to your orginal question 'Comair vs. ACA'. The choice is quite clear; choose ACA.

However, I will provide no empirical evidence to back up my decision except this. By selecting ACA you'll never have to associate with AFELLOWAVIATOR on line, or in the training dept. ever. And that my friend is a very good thing. THANK YOU!

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

What I am saying is fact. Go on with your childess blaa blaa blaa all you want. ACA's days are limited. What a bunch of idiots.\


I will not respond to a bunch of morons any more. aca is a contract carrier. Not much future there. DELTA can opt out any time with a 90 day notice. Why do you think they have that clause in the contract?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[starchkr]

I say FLY CARGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man i think those pax are gettin' to some of you people... Let it go, grandma didn't really mean you fly like crap, she was just upset that your F/A wouldn't give her another round!

 

[sleepy]

Go to Comair, they will be around forever. ACA has a good contract, but they are a contract carrier for DAL and UA. What will happen if UA goes under? I don't know, but do you want to take the chance. DAL is in the best shape of any major. ASA and Comair are owned by DAL. We are the only part of the company that is making money. We are probably not going anywhere.

 

[SkywayFO]

My take is take the one that calls first. I have been at ACA Since the middle of September and it is much better than where I was before and has a brite future. As far as fellow aviator goes what a D*ck. Get over it man! Nobody sold you out. I payed you striking FO more than I was making at the time as a DoJet FO at Skyway. You guys then wanted to give US Air Express Guys a leg up on hiring, and would not even look at you fellow ALPA brother that was shelling out your strike bennies. How F*ck up is that. So who sold who out who in that one. And another thing this thing about indepentent airlines, was ComAIR not one prior to becomming Deltas little toy. And you better believe that when the price is right they will spin you off just like Coex, and Pinnical and like Eagle is looking like. They will just use you as cash to make the books look better. And you better not come crying to me when it contract time again. Cause you don't deserve it. I have a lot of friend that are out of a job or making dirt at Skyway. and they all helped you out. I don't see you pushing for better money for them. And the rest of you all, trust me when I say fellowaviator is not the norm and Comair I have a few friends there and they are all stand up guys. I sat back long enough and listen to this crap, I just had to get that off my chest. Good luck either on is a great place to be. And fly safe everyone!

 

[RJPilott]

What I am saying is fact. Go on with your childess blaa blaa blaa all you want. ACA's days are limited. What a bunch of idiots.\

lol.. someone getting a bit frustrated? What you are saying is a proposal posted on an ALPA message board that sparked the interest of the MEC. VERY FAR from fact. I guess you have to get your crew room BS somewhere if you're not flying the line.