Comair to lose Aircraft in Chap 11??

[RJ Bum]

well, you can be the first ever RJ operator in St Thomas....

Fine by me, it would be nice to get away from DAL's self destruction. It's amazing to me how Delta can take one of the most profitable airlines in the world (as far as profit margin) and run it into the ground in record time.

But I will miss the pass benifits.

 

[Otto]

RJDC's predictions come true after all

Will they lose their Comair seniority numbers? They wanted to do that to us. Good goes around.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee, (is that for the man or the car?)
Can you now concede the possibility that the RJDC's arguements may have had some validity? The whole thing was started because mgt wanted Comair to have more 70 seaters but they were limited in number by scope. Fast forward a few years...now Delta will get more 70 seaters anyway but they will be outsourced to other companies. On top of that, Delta mainline will furlough even more and not one job has been protected through scope. Delta loses...Comair loses. I was never a diehard RJDC follower but I remember them making this prediction three years ago and it seems they hit the nail squarely on the head. I'm sick of the RJDC arguements on this board but I have to wonder what is your response?

 

[surplus1]

you can be the first ever RJ operator in St Thomas ....

Hey, that might not be a bad idea. St. Thomas has some neat beaches, lots of "loose" visiting ladies, and enought palm trees to hang you hammock between. They also have good rum and it's cheap.

Bring it on.

 

[CarjCapt]

Not exactly a revelation. Comair has never been a "part of Delta's future". On the other hand, Delta has been the father of Comair's demise for 5 years. Unfortunately too many Comair pilots have never figured that out.


The only thing this little airline ever got from Delta was expert mismanagement and better pass privileges.

Hate to be a pessimist but it will get much worse before it gets better, IF it ever gets better.

Surplus:

Mismanagement is a kind word. With 95% of the CMR management leaving the sinking ship like rats and the coming shredding of our contract. I believe it is mass destruction.

Lets hope that they sell CMR before it is reduced to zero and allow us to fend for ourselves.

 

[General Lee]

General Lee, (is that for the man or the car?)
Can you now concede the possibility that the RJDC's arguements may have had some validity? The whole thing was started because mgt wanted Comair to have more 70 seaters but they were limited in number by scope. Fast forward a few years...now Delta will get more 70 seaters anyway but they will be outsourced to other companies. On top of that, Delta mainline will furlough even more and not one job has been protected through scope. Delta loses...Comair loses. I was never a diehard RJDC follower but I remember them making this prediction three years ago and it seems they hit the nail squarely on the head. I'm sick of the RJDC arguements on this board but I have to wonder what is your response?

Otto,

First of all, I don't know exactly what will happen with the future 79 seaters, since there may be some slight negotiating coming up. But, with a judge on their side, it may happen. The RJDC is full of lazy pilots who didn't want to go the "traditional" route to a better job--a la major. (at the time anyway) They didn't want to give up their accrued vacation, their weekends off, and didn't want to be my FO (I don't blame them there). If we would have allowed unlimited 70 seaters back then, good ole Fred Greed--"RJ King"---would have bought so many and we may have been in the same situation. If it meant losing better paying jobs (at the time) with better benefits (at the time), couldn't you see the reason for the fight? Management would have loved to put MD88s at DCI also so they could get larger bonuses at the end of each year. The ultimate goal for people who want a better lifestyle, pay, and benefits (at the time again) was to get hired and move UP, not move down and fly larger aircraft. We needed to keep the larger planes at mainline, to have a mainline. The RJDC again is full of lazy people who don't want to interview and "start over"---the way thousands of us have done in the past. The things happening now to this industry could not have been imagined in the last 10 years----no way. This is a biblical shift.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[cmrflyer]

General,

If you want a future you had better send your resume to SWA, JB or CHQ. $88 an hour for a 12 year CA, good luck dip sh!t.

It was a fun ride.

 

[General Lee]

General,

If you want a future you had better send your resume to SWA, JB or CHQ. $88 an hour for a 12 year CA, good luck dip sh!t.

It was a fun ride.

That $88 an hour pay is for the 100 seater, not everything else. I will be on the 764 flying to Hawaii---at $110 an hour---as an FO. Not bad, and I can't do much about it anyway......Aloha jacka$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[N813CA]

General Lee vbmenu_register("postmenu_751468", true);

Go #### yourself. How old are you? How stupid are you? Delta and Comair are both screwed. Get over it. The only thing I have going is I have another 30 years to recover. Yet you are here all over the board thinking you are god's gift to aviation. You know what they say!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tim47SIP]

Words of wisdom!

St. Thomas has some neat beaches, lots of "loose" visiting ladies, and enought palm trees to hang you hammock between. They also have good rum and it's cheap.


You know, that reminds me of a joke! What is the difference between a Cow Patty and those visiting ladies? The older they are, the easyer they are to pick up!

 

[MajorAv8r]

General,

If you want a future you had better send your resume to SWA, JB or CHQ. $88 an hour for a 12 year CA, good luck dip sh!t.

It was a fun ride.

SWA is going to have these same pains when the fuel hedging expires. They would have lost money like the rest had it not been for the hedging. The pilots are the highest paid now. They will be brought down by JB and the restructured legacies in the future.

JB is taking on another aircraft type, and won't be able to pick cherry routes forever if they want to expand. Also the "warrenties" on all the crooked nose wheel airbus' will expire, then welcome to a thing called mtc costs

CHQ are you serious?

Soon or a later the RJ and the feed they provide will be deemed too expensive. IAir is the case example for this.

Do you really think that Comair will maintain 70 seat rates higher than 100 seat rates dictated by its parent company?

 

[jetflyer]

Well Friday came and is gone, and CMR didn't have any BIG announcement.

Phew, get to keep my job for maybe one more week

Jet

 

[jws717]

Yea! for us..........

 

[surplus1]

That $88 an hour pay is for the 100 seater, not everything else. I will be on the 764 flying to Hawaii---at $110 an hour---as an FO. Not bad, and I can't do much about it anyway......Aloha jacka$$.
Bye Bye--General Lee

You mean your going to break with Delta tradition and pay a copilot more than you pay a captain? Lordy, lordy, you really want them regional fjets don't ya?

Now that you've revealed what you are, all we have to do is argue about the price. Should we start with $2 ?

 

[N2264J]

So you would become like Independence Air? Best of luck.

Well, you were the one who brought it up about GG being in the ATL pilot lounge the other day and saying that Comair is not part of Delta's future. You act as if you somehow didn't get the response you expected.

But it remains to be seen doesn't it? I suspect a few lessons have been learned from Independence Air. Fred is always careful to mention "independent" and "larger gauge aircraft" in the same breath.

A lot of local investors made a bunch of money on the independent Comair. If a perpetual basketcase like US Airways can find $1.5 billion in new investment money to start over and wreck yet another airline (this time America West), I think Comair has a shot if we can get out from under Delta and be our own company again.

The outcome for an independent Comair is uncertain as it is for any airline but personally, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

 

[N2264J]

That $88 an hour pay is for the 100 seater, not everything else. I will be on the 764 flying to Hawaii---at $110 an hour---as an FO. Not bad, and I can't do much about it anyway......Aloha jacka$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Whoever counseled you to "just be yourself" could not have given you worse advice.

 

[737 Pylt]

don't you ever get tired of this??

A lot of local investors made a bunch of money on the independent Comair.

That's real easy to make money when you are on a fee for departure, and all your ticketing/advertising is done through mainline. This horse has been beat to death.
737

 

[cmrflyer]

That $88 an hour pay is for the 100 seater, not everything else. I will be on the 764 flying to Hawaii---at $110 an hour---as an FO. Not bad, and I can't do much about it anyway......Aloha jacka$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Not much you could do about it? You could stand up and tell them to go fuc< themselves, you could walk away from this p!ss poor offer, you could be a real man, and quit. Or you could be the general and blame everyone else and just put up with this disgrace. Hang your head in shame whore. MESA look more and more like real airline pilots every day.

 

[cmrflyer]

That $88 an hour pay is for the 100 seater, not everything else. I will be on the 764 flying to Hawaii---at $110 an hour---as an FO. Not bad, and I can't do much about it anyway......Aloha jacka$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee

"I can't do much about it anyway.....". Well general you could stand up to them and tell them to go ***** themselves, you could be a real man and quit. What they are offering you is a ***** disgrace. Hang your head in shame ***** MESA pilots are looking more and more like real airline pilots every day, thanks to loosers like the general. $88 an hour after twelve years at any "major" airline is a disgrace.

 

[N2264J]

That's real easy to make money when you are on a fee for departure, and all your ticketing/advertising is done through mainline.

That wasn't always the case homeboy.

I'll tell you what - let us worry about it.

 

[Taco Rocket]

That's real easy to make money when you are on a fee for departure, and all your ticketing/advertising is done through mainline. This horse has been beat to death.
737

Yes, fee per departure as a concept has been beaten to death.

But I have never had anyone explain to me (in an intelligent manner) why the major is dumb enough to do it. Can some of you all knowing types enlighten me?

 

[737 Pylt]

That wasn't always the case homeboy.

I'll tell you what - let us worry about it.

Homeboy??
Assuming I am black it would be appropriate. But your try at an insult aside, the point still stands! CMR without DAL, would not have made money as a stand alone airline! Keep beating this dead horse. If it makes you feel better, its all yours pal!
737

 

[fugghedabowdit]

"Homeboy??
Assuming I am black it would be appropriate. But your try at an insult aside, the point still stands! CMR without DAL, would not have made money as a stand alone airline! Keep beating this dead horse. If it makes you feel better, its all yours pal!
737"

And neither would have CHQ, Skywest, Mesa, Expressjet, or any other freakin regional if it didn't connect with the Major it codeshares with. What is your point, 737? These companies are or are not profitable, just like Comair. They all provide feed for majors and would not be profitable as stand alone airlines. Thats not their business plan. Thats not what there here to do. Comair happened to be profitable, based on this type of arrangement, the day it was dragged into bankruptcy. Thats life.

 

[doh]

73,
That is the question. Why do you allow this arrangement to continue if it is so repugnant to you? Your MEC, your negotiating team, your management, and finally YOU by your vote ( I mean that in the collective sense), have all set this system up.

 

[surplus1]

That's real easy to make money when you are on a fee for departure, and all your ticketing/advertising is done through mainline. This horse has been beat to death.
737

You can be forgiven for your error for you just haven't been around long enough to know that Comair never operated as a fee-for-departure airline until AFTER it became a Delta subsidiary.

Apparently you don't know when the FFD concept came into existence and you also don't know that Comair's refusal to accept FFD was one of the reasons Delta decided to buy it.

I understand it galls you to admit it but the truth is the only thing "good" that Comair ever got from being "acquired" by Delta was better pass benefits.

The combination of bad management by Delta and bad scope policies by ALPA have jointly operated to destroy Comair, just as they have destroyed Delta.

The only people at Comair who think that ownership by Delta was a benefit to us are those of us that are too new to this business to know better. In other words, folks like you.

Unless we are able to separate from you, which is doubtful now, we will not survive. Delta is the probable casue of our demise and ALPA is the contributing cause. We're stuck with ALPA but perhaps we'll be lucky and escape from Delta.

I wish you luck (which is more than you wish us).

 

[MajorAv8r]

Delta should have never purchase ASA or Comair, they never improved anything at either carrier. I believe that most at Delta believe that we need to focus on a mainline operation, and farm out the feed in a competitive nature.

It seems that Comair has always wanted to go "solo", and I thought that was going to happen before the DAL buyout.

I would be happy to see less people with the pass benefits anyway, as would you like less on the Comair side.

I hope you get the chance to become a non wholly owned subsidiary again.

Sincerely, best of luck.

 

[Texx]

I would be happy to see less people with the pass benefits anyway, as would you like less on the Comair side.

I think most of the DAL people out of ATL that commute would disagree with that statement. Most of them have to commute on ASA and believe me the way the loads are today, going backwards on the pass benefits would not help them at all.

 

[bvt1151]

That's real easy to make money when you are on a fee for departure, and all your ticketing/advertising is done through mainline. This horse has been beat to death.
737

That's funny. Comair made millions as a pro-rate carrier, marketing and pricing their own routes, and it made Delta millions.

...then Delta bought Comair.

 

[jetflyer]

Fred Buttrell went into a recurrent on Friday.

He was intending to talk for about 30 minutes.

He spoke for 2 hours.

Supposedly he was almost in tears as he gave some of the news.

He never wanted to furlough as we were going to be overstaffed for December by 160 pilots, because 5000 block hours were going to be taken away by Delta.

Well Fred said Friday that he had just received some very bad news from Delta and that the block hours were going to be cut more than the 5000 hours.

Not good.

This is when my source said he was almost in tears. He was no longer going to be able to avoid a furlough. This upset him. He wants to grow Comair. Nobody can say he wants us to shrink.

He said he'll have to release the information soon and he's not sure if it's going to be 200 or 400 furloughs. They're analyzing the situation and trying to make a decision.

Supposedly he did mention, "I don't want to announce a furlough of 400 pilots, when it really needs to be 200"

So, maybe the original talk of losing 40 planes is correct? Because 40 planes would require a reduction of a little more than 400 pilots.

This would mean our flying would be reduced by over 20%!!!

Oh and has anybody else been hearing 13% pay cut? This would make 4th Yr F.O. pay about $33/hour.

Not good.

Jet

p.s. can't wait to dump the Delta anchor...

 

[N2264J]

Homeboy??
Assuming I am black it would be appropriate. But your try at an insult aside, the point still stands! CMR without DAL, would not have made money as a stand alone airline! Keep beating this dead horse. If it makes you feel better, its all yours pal!
737

Try at an insult? Not hardly. If I wanted to insult you I could have said something like:

• I don't know what your problem is but I bet it's hard to pronounce or

• I could eat alphabet soup and crap better posts than you write or

• Do you want people to accept you for who you are or do you want them to like you?

By the way, I think you're the one beating this horse of Comair's potential as an independent airline and for the life of me, I don't know why you care. You guys didn't want to merge with us because we weren't "operationally integrated" at the same time your MEC was actively scoping us out by imposing block hour restrictions, hub to hub and point to point limits "to protect your flying." Peculiar contradiction, no?

Your contempt for us is obvious, you don't want us around but if we talk of our independence from Delta as a good thing, it seems to annoy and threaten you. You don't have to obsess about it however. Like I said, worrying about Comair's success or failure of going it alone is a responsibility we'd be happy to take on if given the opportunity.

Hey, we're bankrupt! Isn't it about time for Delta to announce their new livery?

 

[ilinipilot]

I doubt FB was near tears, unless it was tears of joy. All scum bag leaders are the same, and could give two sheets about the hard working men and woman out on the line..

I bet he was crying bc his Starbucks grande, carmel, iced, soy, half demi-cap, macciato was cold and the barista used 2% whipped cream when HE insisted they use 1.75% Wisconsin Dairy whipped cream.

D