Comair to cease operations

[PCL_128]

I certainly hope a memo written a decade ago doesn't prevent something being done to help the families of hundreds of union brothers today who had nothing to do with writing that memo.

Obviously, you guys are free to do whatever you want. But I know that I'm sick to my stomach thinking about what these pilots and their families are going through, and I would certainly want to do everything in my power to help them, regardless of any past transgressions on the part of a union official who has been retired for several years.

 

[General Lee]

The Delta pilots have taken the high road. Certainly compared to this ...

TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATEecember 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.
The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

That pretty much says a lot.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

You mean something that happened a decade ago before you had even taken your first flying lesson? Get over it.

btw, have you forgotten the eastern sc abs? it WAS a long time ago.

 

[Full of LUV]

Ok so if these Comair pilots agree to give up their number at Comair then delta will hire them! All the delta mec wanted was to hire delta pilots at Comair, keep their delta seniority and then be able to go back to delta. Oh and yes Comair and delta both belong to alpa. There isn't a delta pilot alive today that would agree to that! So all you delta pilots get off your high horse and see what your mec was really asking! I hate to kick someone when they are down but rules are rules, even for the mighty delta pilots! Also let me remind all delta pilots that 1. Comair pilots actually went on strike(something delta pilots have never done) and 2.the only people who walked THROUGH our picket line orbit (a huge sign of disrespect) was a delta crew getting out of their hotel van! Swearing at us the whole time.

First of all, your so full of #^%^ your eyes must be brown.

Second, what "rules are rules" are you talking about as every other regional was offering employment minus the resigning of DAL's list. You must remember that most of CMR's growth was directly attributed to the parking of 727's, DC-9's and 737-200's which resulted in the furlough of over 1000 pilots.

That said, DALPA will take the high road as most at DAL don't assume that the RJDC idiots spoke for all of CMR MEC and the new TA does try to cement more of a benefit of fellow union pilots in the hiring process. Sorry to hear about any pilots that are furloughed, it sucks indeed.

 

[PCL_128]

btw, have you forgotten the eastern sc abs? it WAS a long time ago.

Nothing else compares to scabbing, not even the RJDC. But in this case, it was only a handful of people that made the decision to not support the DAL furloughees. Punishing the whole pilot group for the bad decision of a few people would not be right.

 

[nwaf16dude]

I think that in the end, DALPA will attempt to do right by the Comair guys as long as they aren't the RJDC guys. But, it's a good lesson for all of us about what happens when you try to gain an unfair advantage at someone else's expense. What goes around comes around, even in some of the most unlikely places.

 

[Crzipilot]

Nothing else compares to scabbing, not even the RJDC. But in this case, it was only a handful of people that made the decision to not support the DAL furloughees. Punishing the whole pilot group for the bad decision of a few people would not be right.

But isn't the ALPA mantra, the union is U? So shouldn't the comair guys have stood up to these imbiciles on their MEC and told them no, change this. Push through a resolution to hire furloughed pilots w/o making them resign.

Oh I guess 10 yrs ago, forgive and forget, Like walking across a picket line, or PFT etc etc etc.......

Yes, lets forget all those transgressions, because we have ours now....

 

[PCL_128]

A USAPian talking about right and wrong? Now that's f*ckin' funny! :laugh:

 

[AlbieF15]

I'm not a Delta guy, but I wanted to join that team from 1985-2001 once I got done with my active duty. Along the way, many of my friends joined the company joining a lot of other great people I knew there.

I never interviewed there, as they stopped hiring in Jul 01 and I was lucky enough to get hired at another carrier that didn't get quite so crushed by the busting of the internet bubble and the tragedy of 9/11. However, a lot of those Delta friends came back onto active duty or worked hard in the Guard to make ends meet. I was proud of my unit--every pilot that needed work got it. I often wondered how the poor guys who left regionals and didn't have an ANG/Reserve fall back were making due. I wasn't even at Delta, and wasn't furloughed, but I remember the events of 2002 and the Comair MEC communications and remember thinking "dang--those guys are REALLY pi$$ing in their own punchbowl here..."

Now--this isn't personal. I've helped a LOT of great folks from Comair get ready for jobs at FedEx, JetBlue, SWA, and other airlines. Most Comair guys and gals didn't bring this on themselves, and I know they are suffering.

That said, when 2000 RJ guys flip the bird collectively to Delta, I don't think they should expect a whole lot of love back in return from the pilot group. Those guys that were furloughed in 2001/2 are still largely FOs, but many will be captains soon. Some are already in the training department, and others will be LCAs, chief pilots, and other leadership roles at some point. And as you have seen--they can pull a copy of the 2002 memo up without any trouble. So yes...it HAS been 10 years...but no people don't forget those kinds of things. Comair went on strike and incurred the ire of management. Their MEC turned their back on some furloughed mainline guys, and incurred the ire of the DAL pilot group. I don't know who is left once you have enemies on both sides.

Now--this is personal.

You use an ALPA logo in your avatar, and thus your profound opinions are often taken by the less informed on the board as ALPA positions or policy. With the long history of inflamatory and stupid stuff you have posted, you may give the impression many hard working ALPA volunteers at a host of carriers agree with your positions. I, for one, rarely do and would appreciate it if you chose another avatar that indicated something more personal and didn't reflect on what I think is generally the best force for pilots in the industry.

Second--10 years isn't a long time. Its a drop in the cosmic bucket. Asking someone to forgive past judgment decisions--be it paying for training at Gulfstream or not allowing your own pilots to vote on a potential merger agreement because you thought you could get a better deal--won't be forgotten just because those decisions now might tarnish your current situation. In fact, making decisions asking yourself "hey--how will this decision be viewed by others in my profession 5, 10, or 20 years down the road?...." might just lead to a pattern of better decision making by both individuals and institutions.

Again--not a Delta guy--but asking for help now after slamming the door in their face ten years ago is not going to be any easy sell. There are other ALPA carriers hiring...I'd say their odds are much better there.

 

[MELVIS]

If you paid for it, then I guess your check has come. For all the great guys over there that didn't Buy it, I am so sorry.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Second--10 years isn't a long time. Its a drop in the cosmic bucket. Asking someone to forgive past judgment decisions--be it paying for training at Gulfstream or not allowing your own pilots to vote on a potential merger agreement because you thought you could get a better deal--won't be forgotten just because those decisions now might tarnish your current situation. In fact, making decisions asking yourself "hey--how will this decision be viewed by others in my profession 5, 10, or 20 years down the road?...." might just lead to a pattern of better decision making by both individuals and institutions.


just about how long it took for Continental scabs, "tarnished for life" to be forgiven and become ALPA members in good standing with unfortunate dates of hire.....did you forget about THAT Albie???

 

[HalinTexas]

If DALPA had scoped in all flying back in 1996 would we even be having this discussion? They were the first to give it up, you know.

 

[scoreboardII]

Well said Albie!

Halin, surviving in the land of the rising sun?

 

[BobbyBiplane]

If DALPA had scoped in all flying back in 1996 would we even be having this discussion? They were the first to give it up, you know.

Ahhh ... not true. When Comair was still running around in San Antonio sewertubes, AirWisc was code sharing with UAL w/ BAe146s, Air Ill. was code sharing with UAL with BAC111s, and Empire was code sharing with Pan Am and later Piedmont with F-28s. There are probably others but I am not going to waste time remembering them. The simple point is, the above statement is incorrect.

Bob

 

[msmb]

You sorry pile of steaming $hit!!! Nobody was going to Comair keeping DELTA seniority on COMAIRs property. They were going to be NEWHIRES and only kept their number for their return to Delta.

Your lies are so piled up, then ya gotta tell some BS story about a Delta crew crossing the line.......

You waste of good graftable skin......go circle jerk in the unemployment line. Nobody there deserves it except you!

Good luck to all Comair employees and hopefully good employment opportunities roll in that give you a soft landing...thanks for the rides and carrying our people professionally and safely.

I never said they were using their dl number at cmr. I said they were keeping their number to go back to delta when they could. Not a lie. Crossing the picket line, not a lie. Based on your classy post, I am not surprised you can't read.

 

[redflyer65]

I'm not a Delta guy, but I wanted to join that team from 1985-2001 once I got done with my active duty. Along the way, many of my friends joined the company joining a lot of other great people I knew there.

I never interviewed there, as they stopped hiring in Jul 01 and I was lucky enough to get hired at another carrier that didn't get quite so crushed by the busting of the internet bubble and the tragedy of 9/11. However, a lot of those Delta friends came back onto active duty or worked hard in the Guard to make ends meet. I was proud of my unit--every pilot that needed work got it. I often wondered how the poor guys who left regionals and didn't have an ANG/Reserve fall back were making due. I wasn't even at Delta, and wasn't furloughed, but I remember the events of 2002 and the Comair MEC communications and remember thinking "dang--those guys are REALLY pi$$ing in their own punchbowl here..."

Now--this isn't personal. I've helped a LOT of great folks from Comair get ready for jobs at FedEx, JetBlue, SWA, and other airlines. Most Comair guys and gals didn't bring this on themselves, and I know they are suffering.

That said, when 2000 RJ guys flip the bird collectively to Delta, I don't think they should expect a whole lot of love back in return from the pilot group. Those guys that were furloughed in 2001/2 are still largely FOs, but many will be captains soon. Some are already in the training department, and others will be LCAs, chief pilots, and other leadership roles at some point. And as you have seen--they can pull a copy of the 2002 memo up without any trouble. So yes...it HAS been 10 years...but no people don't forget those kinds of things. Comair went on strike and incurred the ire of management. Their MEC turned their back on some furloughed mainline guys, and incurred the ire of the DAL pilot group. I don't know who is left once you have enemies on both sides.

Now--this is personal.

You use an ALPA logo in your avatar, and thus your profound opinions are often taken by the less informed on the board as ALPA positions or policy. With the long history of inflamatory and stupid stuff you have posted, you may give the impression many hard working ALPA volunteers at a host of carriers agree with your positions. I, for one, rarely do and would appreciate it if you chose another avatar that indicated something more personal and didn't reflect on what I think is generally the best force for pilots in the industry.

Second--10 years isn't a long time. Its a drop in the cosmic bucket. Asking someone to forgive past judgment decisions--be it paying for training at Gulfstream or not allowing your own pilots to vote on a potential merger agreement because you thought you could get a better deal--won't be forgotten just because those decisions now might tarnish your current situation. In fact, making decisions asking yourself "hey--how will this decision be viewed by others in my profession 5, 10, or 20 years down the road?...." might just lead to a pattern of better decision making by both individuals and institutions.

Again--not a Delta guy--but asking for help now after slamming the door in their face ten years ago is not going to be any easy sell. There are other ALPA carriers hiring...I'd say their odds are much better there.

Wow.

Off the top rope Albie!

Nicely articulated and spot on. The shame for the Comair guys is they will be held to those standards (the letter) that they didn't write, or necessarily even agreed with...but the union put it out there anyway.

 

[Flyer1015]

You mean something that happened a decade ago before you had even taken your first flying lesson? Get over it.

I had started flying before 9/11. Stay classy! Doesn't change th fact that an MEC member screwed his own pilot group behind their backs. Holding Delta furloughees hostage is pitiful/awful. I like your "get over it comment." how fitting coming a national ALPA leader.

 

[Flyer1015]

I certainly hope a memo written a decade ago doesn't prevent something being done to help the families of hundreds of union brothers today who had nothing to do with writing that memo.

Obviously, you guys are free to do whatever you want. But I know that I'm sick to my stomach thinking about what these pilots and their families are going through, and I would certainly want to do everything in my power to help them, regardless of any past transgressions on the part of a union official who has been retired for several years.

Good. As a ALPA National leader who has Comair under his group, you can start by refunding the merger fund to every single current Comair pilot. If you really are on your toes, then you should refund 1.95% of ALPS dues back to Comair pilots since post BK 2006. Get that ball rolling, and I'll see if your actions are where your sympathy mouth is.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Best of luck to all the Comair bubbas. Many of us have been there, done that and feel your pain. It is survivable, but I have to agree after reading that memo - your MEC burned the bridge to Delta to the ground.

 

[Crash Pad]

Nothing else compares to scabbing, not even the RJDC. But in this case, it was only a handful of people that made the decision to not support the DAL furloughees. Punishing the whole pilot group for the bad decision of a few people would not be right.

Handful of people screwed the entire pilot group. A lot of that going around. GO ALPA!