Comair Pilot arrested in PA

[Timebuilder]

As I pointed out to someone this evening, I have been through the security mill several times in the past eight months.

I don't hate the people for doing their job. What I do hate is the misdirected attention and outright stupidity I read about every week: a medal of honor winner hassled for carrying his medal, a senator hassled because of a steel hip, or the reports of several 55 gallon drums of small nail files being accumulated at airports all over the country.

Unfortunately, a great deal of this is foolishness. Consider this: the 9-11 hijackers didn't take anything past security. Their weapons were placed on board by co-conspirators. In fact, If someone was not on a special list, they could board aircraft at the same gate as the hijackers had, and with the same weapons placed in a similar manner, and might cause the same problems that we have seen. The passengers would probably overpower the hijackers this time, but the question remains: what good is being done by our new security requirements, if the same requirements would not have prevented the hijackings to which we are reacting?

 

[ClassG]

Just as an aside....

What sort of identification do the Sky Marshalls have that it cannot be duplicated by these same "crooks" we're so afraid of? If someone could produce valid-looking credentials as a pilot, couldn't the same be done (in regular street clothes, and with a side arm) ???

Maybe there's some secret squirrel handshake you need to do in order to get through security. Anyone know??

 

[Loafman]

Maybe we could sell the nail files on eB

Want my take on the whole situation? I knew you would. Here it is.

To hell with screening people entering the airport for weapons. I really don't give a $hit if the overhead bins are full of M-16's if there are normal people in the seats who aren't terrorist wackos.

Where we NEED to screen is the PEOPLE getting on the plane. I don't care if everyone is naked and the overhead bins are empty, once you've allowed a hijacker onboard the aircraft, armed or not, you've lost. A determined individual can wreak havoc on an aircraft without a weapon of any kind. Just watch the news, it's happened on several occasions since 9/11, just now the PAX don't allow it.

Ever wonder how they narrowed down the PAX lists of the 9/11 aircraft to the 19 muslim morons?

Simple stupid things like who had and didn't have a social security number. A drivers license. A credit history. A passport. An employment history. Tax Returns. Normal everyday people have these things. Terrorist wackos can forge documents, but not the data trail they leave behind.

Everyone on board an aircraft has their identity verified and their name ends up in a computer somewhere or another. In todays modern techno-data-connected world, surely these things can be referenced prior to the PAX even reaching the screeners. Like when they buy a ticket or list for a flight standby.

Then the ones that don't cross reference correctly on 3 or 4 checks get the extra analprobe at the security checkpont while we all go through the normal cursory lookover.

If a pilot wanted to kill people and break things, the yoke in his hand is a lot more deadly than a nail file. Give me a difficult to duplicate holographic gizmo on my ATP, along with my smiling mug and a digitally encrypted smartchip signature. Don't tell me it's cost prohibitive or the credit card companies would be broke by now with all the spam they send out.

And yes, I know what I mentioned is like profiling, but I'd rather see that than get buttsearches every time I beep.

Want security onboard an aircraft? Give me that bulletproof door and the hand cannon you promised.

 

[NEDude]

Some logical points made here. At many large airlines the gate agents have no idea who the crew members are. They don't recognize them by face. Some companies have close to 10,000 pilots and serve 100 destinations. Yet a quick check of the ID and the fact they are in uniform is enough for the gate agent to let them down the jetway and unsupervised access to the aircraft. But the same ID and uniform is not considered enough to help them through security screening. Seems a little odd.

Of course TSA would have you believe everything is the same at every airport. It is not and we all know it. At one of our airports, TSA directs us to circumvent security and enter the ramp area through our operations. At another TSA prohibits this. Which is the correct policy and why isn't it applied the same? Because despite all the hype, TSA is really not that much different than what we had before. Just better paid.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Everyone has to realize that just because someone presents themselves at the security gate in their uniform with ID's it doesn't neccesarily mean that you are going to be flying that day or even that you know how to fly at all. Pilot uniforms are available to the public market and a good crook can easily replicate a company ID.

I submit that a TSA uniform and badge are even easier to duplicate than most airline uniforms.

Now wouldn't that be chaos.

I wouldn't mind these issues so much if procedures were the same at every airport...but they're not. There are some cities I fly out of where from the time you step out of the hotel van to the time you pull the gear up, you don't go anywhere near a TSA agent or a bag check.

I'm the first to say that the TSA has--so far--done a far superior job than the clowns we had before...but there's a long way to go.

Flyhard, I think I'm a pretty open-minded guy, but I can't get behind the idea that the same security rules that apply to passengers should apply to pilots. It's wasteful. There needs to be a way to verify a pilot's, flight attendant's, or mechanic's identity and employment. After that's done, what they're carrying with them is irrelevant.

And before you tell me that it's not irrelevant, once again, consider the cities where crews are not screened at all.

 

[Caveman]

Maybe our security screener can explain the logic of checking crew ID's during a quickturn. The people checking our ID's just watched us land and taxi the a/c to the gate. As they are handing us our release they verify our ID's. WTFO?!?

 

[dsee8driver]

Window dressing....

I don't feel any safer now then back pre 9/11, but I bet you passengers are not gona let Muhammed Ragtop rush the cockpit.

 

[Huck]

If it happens, the next attempted hijacking will likely be on a cargo heavy jet where the pilots were exempted from the new "armed pilot" law. Maybe I'll get to the crash axe in time....

 

[Timebuilder]

(Glances at previous poster's avatar)

Uh.....is that airline based in Memphis?

 

[Rick1128]

The Sky Marshall bit has happened. MIA screeners ripped a SM a new a$$hole over his nailclipers while handing back his Glock, MP5 and flack jacket. Then they arrested the Captain of the flight for laughing about the absurdity of the whole event.

What is TSA going to do when pilots show up at screening with federally authorized firearms? This is going to be interesting.

Many has been the time, well before 9/11, that my flightcase has been literally dumped out because the screener couldn't recognize a ringbinder. Holding of all things a company/FAA required manual.

While the terminals are as crazy as always, the general aviation side is getting to that point. I had one trip where my passengers were not allowed to bring their shotguns. They were going on a hunting trip and these guns were cased. The best one so far is BOS where my medical crew was not allowed through screening at the GA terminal with their equipment. Scissors, needles, etc. They had gone to the hospital and on return with our passenger had to get out of the ambulance and be screened. Both of these events took a lot of effort to resolve. Sometimes it is hard to believe that people in Washington live on the same planet as we do.

 

[Timebuilder]

Not only do you have main terminal style screening at Signature/BOS, but you have a Mass State trooper holding up the wall near the x-ray machine. Cost? Who knows?

I'm not saying that the Massport people don't have reason to be especially reactionary, given the focus on Boston regarding 9-11, but it's as if they are saying that this particular lightening is more likely to strike there, as opposed to say, at Atlantic/TEB.

It's like an absurd play.

 

[FlyToVegas]

tsa

And to think for all this "security" passengers are being changed $10 extra per flight!

If the TSA is allowed to continue, I can see them bringing down the airline industry.

 

[ifly4food]

I would like to make a short explanation for the two above incidents from where I see it. After I was furloughed I worked as an instructor for the federal airport screeners. So I have seen it from a pilots perspective as well as a screener perspective.

The first incident is no different than if a policeman asked if you had a weapon in your car. You say no and the cop searches your car and finds one. That is called concealment and believe it or not being a "captain" will not get you out of it. Remember the rules do not change if you are a pilot.

As far as the standards (I think that is what you tried to spell) during my training I knew of four people that were furloughed airline pilots from major carriers that failed the test. So the standards are there.

Now the second incident. It use to be that all toy guns were prohibited, now GI Joe types are permitted. That screener just did not read his or her revisions, no excuses. Kind of sounded like a pilot?

The main thing to keep in mind is that TSA is a brand new organization and will take some time to iron out all the bugs. Like I said before I have seen it from both sides and used to be like everyone else. " This is bull$hit, this guy has a power trip," ect. were the words that came out of my mouth. We need to realize that these people are defending our jobs as airline pilots and we need to thank them more often...

...First of all it would have been easier to quote my entire response. Maybe you need to step into reality and realize that people do not give a $hit that you are a pilot, so the rules are not going to change. If they did then where would the line be drawn?

As far as common sense, I guess the other 21 pilots that passed the test in the class had no common sense. Whatever.

As far as the child's toy, that is an isolated incident that doesn't happen everyday.

As far as you saying "the public being tolerant" . I guarantee that the general public is satisfied with the job that is being done.

The file and nail clippers have been allowed for the last 8 months, so I do not know where you have been? [/B]

Note the highlighted selections.

Flyhard, I find your attitude extremely poor. There is no need to demean thes pilots who questioned your statement. I cite your decision to sarcastically put the word Captain in quotation marks as a prime example. Are you really demeaning this respectful title that so many pilots have EARNED through hard work and years of service?

I'm sorry you were furloughed and even more sorry that you had to cross over to the dark side by working as a screener. However, that does not entitle you take your frustrations toward the industry out on your fellow pilots.

Clearly you no longer work for the TSA since you spoke of such in the past tense. I'm glad to hear that.
In light of this, you do not represent the TSA and have no right to speak for them.

I stand with timebuilder and everyone else who voiced their frustration with the screening process. Everybody in the industry knows and accepts that it is nothing but fancy window dressing meant to give the perception of safety. This in turn makes people feel safe enough to buy airline tickets and pay our salaries. Only the general public is brainwashed (or naive ) enough to think that Al Qaida couldn't get past security tomorrow and do something if they really wanted to. Really, nothing has changed since 9/11/01. The terrorist groups know the profiles to avoid. Ground workers still aren't screened at most airports. It would be easy to get an operative through security to use a pre planted weapon. Let's not kid ourselves. Really, the only true security measure we have added is the new "bank vault" cockpit door and our loss of innocence . It's not the checkpoint.

This beings us to the understandable frustration crews feel for being subjected to the unecessary show we are put through in front of the passengers.

The only solution to this will be for us all to quit whining about it in cyberspace and to put some real pressure on our unions and elected representatives to push through the smart card ID system. Then we will be able to be identified at the checkpoint as LEOs now are and be able to proceed without hassle.

 

[KigAir]

If it happens, the next attempted hijacking will likely be on a cargo heavy jet where the pilots were exempted from the new "armed pilot" law. Maybe I'll get to the crash axe in time....

Errr, didn't this already happen on a FedEx flight back in the early 1990's?

 

[flyhard]

First of all I am not a screener and never was. I was under a government contract to train them.

As for ifly4food, I was a captain for over two years so don't tell me about hard work and "earning" things until you have held that title.

As for Timebuilder, when was the last time in an airport? You said "several" times. Wow several, that is a lot. Obviously you are an expert on just about everything with over 1700 posts. It is just not aviation or security.

I totally agree we need a universal id amoung pilots to make things easier. I am just stating the facts as they are now. I am a pilot and will always be a pilot. I just did this contract job to put food on the table in the mean time. I really don't need some punk to tell me about an attitude.