Comair Part Of Delta Cuts

[ERJDRVR2]

Rid the storm, you guys will get threw it...
Once Delta see's the crappy service of CHQ/Mesa you will look more and more appealing!!!

Just like USAIR did??

 

[bvt1151]

According to Comair union leadership, there will be no pilot furloughs, per the new language resulting from the LOA. Remember that even though the aircraft have to be on Comair property, they also have to be staffed to minimum levels.

 

[DDpaysoff]

So much for Comair's pay freeze for growth! What a bunch of suckers! How the mighty have fallen!

We saved 153 Pilot Jobs when that LOA was signed. I agree there is no growth in the near future, but this will all work itself out. In the meantime, 153 people off the street is actually a good job by the Comair pilot group from the LOA.

 

[bvt1151]

We saved 153 Pilot Jobs when that LOA was signed. I agree there is no growth in the near future, but this will all work itself out. In the meantime, 153 people off the street is actually a good job by the Comair pilot group from the LOA.

Good point. LOA saved pilots jobs today, plus the unknown number had we not signed and all 70's were transferred to ASA/Skywest. Think they would have refused them?

 

[Puck Mugger]

Good point. LOA saved pilots jobs today, plus the unknown number had we not signed and all 70's were transferred to ASA/Skywest. Think they would have refused them?

Revisionist history, eh. Thank god you now have an excuse to hide behind for you concessions for "growth" vote.

Fast Freddie's had a master plan for you from day one. You don't actually think this is the first he has heard of what was in the works for CVG, do you???

 

[scarlet]

Lets see what has ALPA done for any airline this year or the last few years//// Have they required to see a business plan for all these airlines after we take paycuts how are we going to make money///NO they did not and the airlines do not have a business plan...?? JUST TAKE PAY CUTS...oh we have done that--now what...??? THese are questions I would ask...??

Lets see the Delta pilots need to look at the industry again and stop acting like they are all that...because you are NOT--sorry I know the military told you, that crap and you bought it...FIrst thing never listen to the government that was your first mistake...Remember when Delta wanted 777 and the pilots were like we need 300 hour for those so what did DL do--he11 we will not order them then...NICE JOB!!! Lets fly to HOng Kong--oh no we cant--Lets fly to Tokyo--oh no we cant lets fly to beijing-- oh no we cant--WHY we don't have the a/c to do it...SMART.......Its called Placing yourself out of work---WAKE UP

CAL thanks you guys I am sure they got all those routes...with their 20 777's

 

[Puck Mugger]

Lets see what has ALPA done for any airline this year or the last few years//// Have they required to see a business plan for all these airlines after we take paycuts how are we going to make money///NO they did not and the airlines do not have a business plan...?? JUST TAKE PAY CUTS...oh we have done that--now what...??? THese are questions I would ask...??

Lets see the Delta pilots need to look at the industry again and stop acting like they are all that...because you are NOT--sorry I know the military told you, that crap and you bought it...FIrst thing never listen to the government that was your first mistake...Remember when Delta wanted 777 and the pilots were like we need 300 hour for those so what did DL do--he11 we will not order them then...NICE JOB!!! Lets fly to HOng Kong--oh no we cant--Lets fly to Tokyo--oh no we cant lets fly to beijing-- oh no we cant--WHY we don't have the a/c to do it...SMART.......Its called Placing yourself out of work---WAKE UP

CAL thanks you guys I am sure they got all those routes...with their 20 777's

Scarlet, have you been drinking???

 

[DDpaysoff]

Call it an excuse call it whatever you want, the fact is 153 jobs were saved by the LOA. I voted for it, the last few months I started thinking I did the wrong thing. Today, I know for sure the LOA is good becasue it saved jobs. Keeping those jobs maintains our unity and solidarity as a group, we will need that in the coming months.
This is the nature of the beast in the industry we work in. The LOA allowed us to hire 100 pilots and protect 153 jobs, that's 253 HR transactions for signing a piece of paper that still keeps us above most, if not all the rest of the industry payscale.
We may not get shiny new jets or any near term growth, but this is a savvy pilot group that will protect it's best interests till the end. They may very well come for more cuts, but don't expect the same result as the last LOA. Whether your #1 or #2000 on the seniority list this group will fight and claw to protect every job on the property. We may not win, but you can be sure we will fight. I'm proud of that.
This whole announcement is not a big deal. They'll probably come back next month and say, hey, we're going to add 30 more flights out of Boston. I've learned in this business don't get too high, don't get too low and you can have a long successful career.
The only thing it really tells me is Delta is not likely to sell us now. Those S2's and 3's mean a lot to me personally. If we have to suffer a bit to help mother D escape ch. 11 so be it. I'm sure when Delta does well again some day, being the only wholly owned carreier will be a good thing.

 

[dvmthwsvan]

I am curious bucause I am low enough i might be gone, but it was my understanding that if the planes werent here in time the LOA would become void. Does that mean the furlough protection too?

 

[StarChecker]

Rid the storm, you guys will get threw it...
Once Delta see's the crappy service of CHQ/Mesa you will look more and more appealing!!!

Yep...Delta just hates our crappy service. And Delta's passengers are gonna hate flying on our 170's. Terrible service.

How do you know anything about our service?


A$$

 

[StaySeated]

Someone help me out, how did the three year pay/longevity freeze save jobs? I am not trying to be a d1ck here, I just can't come up with any logical reason behind this statement. Do some people really think that this is the low water mark? You don't have to read between any lines, comair labor has artificially become more expensive overnight due to the reduction in flying. The loa was the first nibble. The new casm (you know they have pretty charts ready to parade around the crew room) will be crammed down everyone's throats for the next few weeks. They will take another bite prior to bk in a "last ditch effort to avoid the judge". Once they get that they will 1113 your arse and whatever is left of work rules and pay will also go bye bye. Airline management looks at negotiations/labor cuts as an ultra marathon, and they always win. We are just too short-sighted, greedy, and forgetful to reallize that they have plan. They make a small move, we attack each other. They make another move, repeat...

 

[DDpaysoff]

I am curious bucause I am low enough i might be gone, but it was my understanding that if the planes werent here in time the LOA would become void. Does that mean the furlough protection too?

Now, if Delta files for protection under the ch. 11 code of bankruptcy they could go in front of a judge and try to amend the LOA, however, by the time all this got done, there will be enough attrition between now and then that the company would not need to furlough.

However, in ch. 11 anything is possible, they could just furlough right away and make us grieve it and go through a long arbitration period while the furloughee is on the street unsure about his/her future.

I don't think it is in the best interest of the company to violate the LOA. They would boost us back up to payrates that are not even in the same ballpark as most of our competitors along with in increased casm from the loss of a half hour a day per a/c in utilization would make Comair's costs unbearable. If this were to happen, Delta would likely have no choice but to sell a/c to try to get the utilization up and casm's back down. This is one reason why I don't see us getting our payscale back regardless. In this case they could furlough all they want, sell the a/c and the and possibly the certificate and this airline will look nothing like it does now if it even exists.

That's why I am saying it is nice to have this LOA, otherwise they could have done whatever they wanted to with us. Now, they would have to wait a year and a half or file ch. 11 to violate it. That gives us a little leverage in protecting our jobs, which is better than nothing.

We gave Fred what he asked for. Now, it is up to him to win the growth and protect the airline. I can't see myself, for one, voting for a paycut in the future. We gave delta some help, and this is what we get in return. Good luck getting more....If they even ask, they must truly think we are fools.

These decisions were made and announced today to prepare delta for ch. 11, as if this were a post filing announcement they would have to go in front of a judge and waste resources on lawyers and all that. Don't be mistaken, it is still very likely that delta will file, they are just getting a head start on their restructuring. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were forced to downsize cincinnati becasue they knew they were going to file and GE will recieve a/c (Comair CRJ's), if delta does not pay on it's restructrued debt. Now, GE can take their 40-50 CRJ's and it wouldn't "shock" the DAL system that much. I'm afraid that is what is happening, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[relief tube]

if those jobs end up getting saved, god-willing, then that'll be the best news I've heard in a while. A good buddy of mine is one of those 153. A bar-raising pilot group derves only the best. Good luck

 

[General Lee]

if those jobs end up getting saved, god-willing, then that'll be the best news I've heard in a while. A good buddy of mine is one of those 153. A bar-raising pilot group derves only the best. Good luck

We raised the bar higher than it has ever been before (when we thought the company could afford it), and we eventually took at 32.5% pay cut and had 1300 furloughs at one time. Going to the top makes you an easy target.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

Revisionist history, eh. Thank god you now have an excuse to hide behind for you concessions for "growth" vote.

Fast Freddie's had a master plan for you from day one. You don't actually think this is the first he has heard of what was in the works for CVG, do you???

Go back through the threads and you'll see that furlough protection was the single most important reason to Comair pilots for voting in the LOA. It is well worth it to take a pay freeze to save the jobs of at least 153 pilots.

If nothing else, the Comair pilots have shown through the strike, negotiated FO wages, and now the pay freeze for furlough protection, that they take care of their young. That is extraordinary in today's union environment.

 

[bvt1151]

Someone help me out, how did the three year pay/longevity freeze save jobs? I am not trying to be a d1ck here, I just can't come up with any logical reason behind this statement. Do some people really think that this is the low water mark? You don't have to read between any lines, comair labor has artificially become more expensive overnight due to the reduction in flying. The loa was the first nibble. The new casm (you know they have pretty charts ready to parade around the crew room) will be crammed down everyone's throats for the next few weeks.

The cat is out of the bag that both costs and revenues are calcuated by block cost, not CASM. This means that in reality, daily utilization is not as important as some will try to make it out to be. If it were, CHQ would be the most expensive airline with their low utilization.

They will take another bite prior to bk in a "last ditch effort to avoid the judge". Once they get that they will 1113 your arse and whatever is left of work rules and pay will also go bye bye. Airline management looks at negotiations/labor cuts as an ultra marathon, and they always win. We are just too short-sighted, greedy, and forgetful to reallize that they have plan. They make a small move, we attack each other. They make another move, repeat...

Whatever happens now is entirely moot when it comes to chapter 11. Comair could have given us a 100% pay increase, but in chapter 11, it means nothing. Bankruptcy is a whole-nother matter, and it makes no difference what happens before, because everything is out the window in Ch11. It's pointless to even argue. What will affect the Comair pilots in a post-bk world is other pilot agreements. This is why the Comair pilot group is so sensitive to the Mesa's, and CHQ's underbidding everyone for quick upgrade. It is their lowsy contracts that we will be compared to.

That being said, the Comair pilots are doing what is necessary to survive before bankruptcy. Successfully staving off a 10% furlough is an incredible defensive manuever. I would much rather go into bankruptcy with those 153 pilots, even if it means the same result. Our local union council has proven its worth by protecting the jobs of Comair pilots first and foremost.

National union worth (or Woerth [sp?]) is another matter.

 

[Tim47SIP]

As I understand what is going on there are 165 pilot positions that either need to be lost by personal leaves or by furlough. Uba757

Well if this comes to fruitition, maybe ASA/Skywest could put those pilots to work. Minimum training required and we would get the number of people we need. Just a thought.

 

[uba757]

Great idea TIM. UBA757

 

[uba757]

Hey I am 100 pilots from the bottom and have no idea what is going to happend. I will say this about CMR it is a great company to work for and 99.9% of the people I met were OK by me. UBA757

 

[DGdaPilot]

Hey I am 100 pilots from the bottom and have no idea what is going to happend. I will say this about CMR it is a great company to work for and 99.9% of the people I met were OK by me. UBA757

Here, Here