Comair Part Of Delta Cuts

[StaySeated]

Someone help me out, how did the three year pay/longevity freeze save jobs? I am not trying to be a d1ck here, I just can't come up with any logical reason behind this statement. Do some people really think that this is the low water mark? You don't have to read between any lines, comair labor has artificially become more expensive overnight due to the reduction in flying. The loa was the first nibble. The new casm (you know they have pretty charts ready to parade around the crew room) will be crammed down everyone's throats for the next few weeks. They will take another bite prior to bk in a "last ditch effort to avoid the judge". Once they get that they will 1113 your arse and whatever is left of work rules and pay will also go bye bye. Airline management looks at negotiations/labor cuts as an ultra marathon, and they always win. We are just too short-sighted, greedy, and forgetful to reallize that they have plan. They make a small move, we attack each other. They make another move, repeat...

 

[DDpaysoff]

I am curious bucause I am low enough i might be gone, but it was my understanding that if the planes werent here in time the LOA would become void. Does that mean the furlough protection too?

Now, if Delta files for protection under the ch. 11 code of bankruptcy they could go in front of a judge and try to amend the LOA, however, by the time all this got done, there will be enough attrition between now and then that the company would not need to furlough.

However, in ch. 11 anything is possible, they could just furlough right away and make us grieve it and go through a long arbitration period while the furloughee is on the street unsure about his/her future.

I don't think it is in the best interest of the company to violate the LOA. They would boost us back up to payrates that are not even in the same ballpark as most of our competitors along with in increased casm from the loss of a half hour a day per a/c in utilization would make Comair's costs unbearable. If this were to happen, Delta would likely have no choice but to sell a/c to try to get the utilization up and casm's back down. This is one reason why I don't see us getting our payscale back regardless. In this case they could furlough all they want, sell the a/c and the and possibly the certificate and this airline will look nothing like it does now if it even exists.

That's why I am saying it is nice to have this LOA, otherwise they could have done whatever they wanted to with us. Now, they would have to wait a year and a half or file ch. 11 to violate it. That gives us a little leverage in protecting our jobs, which is better than nothing.

We gave Fred what he asked for. Now, it is up to him to win the growth and protect the airline. I can't see myself, for one, voting for a paycut in the future. We gave delta some help, and this is what we get in return. Good luck getting more....If they even ask, they must truly think we are fools.

These decisions were made and announced today to prepare delta for ch. 11, as if this were a post filing announcement they would have to go in front of a judge and waste resources on lawyers and all that. Don't be mistaken, it is still very likely that delta will file, they are just getting a head start on their restructuring. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were forced to downsize cincinnati becasue they knew they were going to file and GE will recieve a/c (Comair CRJ's), if delta does not pay on it's restructrued debt. Now, GE can take their 40-50 CRJ's and it wouldn't "shock" the DAL system that much. I'm afraid that is what is happening, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[relief tube]

if those jobs end up getting saved, god-willing, then that'll be the best news I've heard in a while. A good buddy of mine is one of those 153. A bar-raising pilot group derves only the best. Good luck

 

[General Lee]

if those jobs end up getting saved, god-willing, then that'll be the best news I've heard in a while. A good buddy of mine is one of those 153. A bar-raising pilot group derves only the best. Good luck

We raised the bar higher than it has ever been before (when we thought the company could afford it), and we eventually took at 32.5% pay cut and had 1300 furloughs at one time. Going to the top makes you an easy target.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

Revisionist history, eh. Thank god you now have an excuse to hide behind for you concessions for "growth" vote.

Fast Freddie's had a master plan for you from day one. You don't actually think this is the first he has heard of what was in the works for CVG, do you???

Go back through the threads and you'll see that furlough protection was the single most important reason to Comair pilots for voting in the LOA. It is well worth it to take a pay freeze to save the jobs of at least 153 pilots.

If nothing else, the Comair pilots have shown through the strike, negotiated FO wages, and now the pay freeze for furlough protection, that they take care of their young. That is extraordinary in today's union environment.

 

[bvt1151]

Someone help me out, how did the three year pay/longevity freeze save jobs? I am not trying to be a d1ck here, I just can't come up with any logical reason behind this statement. Do some people really think that this is the low water mark? You don't have to read between any lines, comair labor has artificially become more expensive overnight due to the reduction in flying. The loa was the first nibble. The new casm (you know they have pretty charts ready to parade around the crew room) will be crammed down everyone's throats for the next few weeks.

The cat is out of the bag that both costs and revenues are calcuated by block cost, not CASM. This means that in reality, daily utilization is not as important as some will try to make it out to be. If it were, CHQ would be the most expensive airline with their low utilization.

They will take another bite prior to bk in a "last ditch effort to avoid the judge". Once they get that they will 1113 your arse and whatever is left of work rules and pay will also go bye bye. Airline management looks at negotiations/labor cuts as an ultra marathon, and they always win. We are just too short-sighted, greedy, and forgetful to reallize that they have plan. They make a small move, we attack each other. They make another move, repeat...

Whatever happens now is entirely moot when it comes to chapter 11. Comair could have given us a 100% pay increase, but in chapter 11, it means nothing. Bankruptcy is a whole-nother matter, and it makes no difference what happens before, because everything is out the window in Ch11. It's pointless to even argue. What will affect the Comair pilots in a post-bk world is other pilot agreements. This is why the Comair pilot group is so sensitive to the Mesa's, and CHQ's underbidding everyone for quick upgrade. It is their lowsy contracts that we will be compared to.

That being said, the Comair pilots are doing what is necessary to survive before bankruptcy. Successfully staving off a 10% furlough is an incredible defensive manuever. I would much rather go into bankruptcy with those 153 pilots, even if it means the same result. Our local union council has proven its worth by protecting the jobs of Comair pilots first and foremost.

National union worth (or Woerth [sp?]) is another matter.

 

[Tim47SIP]

As I understand what is going on there are 165 pilot positions that either need to be lost by personal leaves or by furlough. Uba757

Well if this comes to fruitition, maybe ASA/Skywest could put those pilots to work. Minimum training required and we would get the number of people we need. Just a thought.

 

[uba757]

Great idea TIM. UBA757

 

[uba757]

Hey I am 100 pilots from the bottom and have no idea what is going to happend. I will say this about CMR it is a great company to work for and 99.9% of the people I met were OK by me. UBA757

 

[DGdaPilot]

Hey I am 100 pilots from the bottom and have no idea what is going to happend. I will say this about CMR it is a great company to work for and 99.9% of the people I met were OK by me. UBA757

Here, Here

 

[DDpaysoff]

Go back through the threads and you'll see that furlough protection was the single most important reason to Comair pilots for voting in the LOA. It is well worth it to take a pay freeze to save the jobs of at least 153 pilots.

If nothing else, the Comair pilots have shown through the strike, negotiated FO wages, and now the pay freeze for furlough protection, that they take care of their young. That is extraordinary in today's union environment.

That was the number one reason, even the guys that voted no that I have talked to said at least we got that. I have to say I think J.C. and the group get a kudos from me. From what I understand that minimum number of a/c clause was negotiated into the agreement. They did a good job.
In Ch. 11 we will have to demonstrate our unity again. We are all doing whatever we can to lower costs and do our part to help delta avoid ch. 11. When the good times roll again we are positioned well to be a part of it.
It would be nice if Comair could strike a deal to do some other feed. It would only help Delta's bottom line.

 

[StarChecker]

This is why the Comair pilot group is so sensitive to the Mesa's, and CHQ's underbidding everyone for quick upgrade. It is their lowsy contracts that we will be compared to.

Oh yes...the first thing I thought when I saw our contract was the opportunity to screw Comair pilots and force furloughs and pay cuts. Thank God it's working out exactly the way we planned it....

 

[surplus1]

Another boring diatribe from my pal Surplus1.

I appreciate that General; it is far more generous than words I would use to describe your musings. You see I don't find you boring, I think you're inept. I prefer to be boring.

You are right, they are moving the chess pieces around,

Yes they are. Reminescent of musical chairs played on the deck of the Titanic. My worry is that my little boat is being caught in the whirlpool suction created by your settleing into the depths. I understand why you think it's our fault and I also know why it isn't.

In reality it is your management's fault. They have consistently made the wrong decisions at the wrong time. Many of the threats to your survival and ours could not be prevented. However, after the storm hit, the response of Delta management has been quite similar to the response of FEMA in the aftermath of Katrina; too little too late. Result .... a great company, like our great nation, is incredibly injured. The consequences will be felt for many years to come.

What we have (in terms of our contract) has not contributed to your fall from grace. What you grabbed (in terms of your contract) has, and it took you far too long to give some of it back.

It still isn't your fault; it is their fault. Bad management on the part of Delta's senior executives; Allen, Mullin, Reid. They ignored all the warnings, they failed to reinforce the dikes, and now the city of Delta is flooded in the cesspool. I know you won't like the analogy, and your mentally challenged supporters won't understand it, but that changes nothing. The hole in the dike is so big that even the best pumps can't drain the city of Delta fast enough to save it. Bankruptcy is now virtually unavoidable and there is no "miracle" in the offing that I can see.

There was no way to prevent the storm of industry changes from happening General, but there were many ways to pevent the destruction that followed. There were choices and your mangement failed to make the right ones, over and over again

Our union did exactly the same thing. It's president is much like the mayor of New Orleans; unwilling to make the tough decisions; unable to protect his people; incompetent. You can defend him 'till he!! freezes over but you can't chage the truth. ALPA has failed its members. Not just at Comair but everywhere. All 60,000 of us have been negatively affected by a series of bad policies continued in the face of pending disaster for well over a decade. The warnings were ignored, over and over again. Today, we are all dealing with the consequences.

You may call that whining if you want to, but it isn't. I'm not whining, I'm just not afraid to call it as I see it. The problem isn't the people (pilots) that complain about the policy. The problem is the people that make the policy.

Mistakes are understandable, we all make them (even you and I). What is not understandable or excuseable is the complete denial and inability to accept responsibility for ones failures.

Denial only causes the same mistakes to be repeated over and over again; like a drug addict on crack. That's exactly what is happening. The powers that be in the union will not admit that their polcy is wrong and so, they continue to hang on to it and repeat the same mistakes. To answer your question, that is why I blame ALPA for its role in the mess.

Wait a second, what about SkyWest and their faulty 50-90 seat same pay deal? What about Mesa and their low cost structure? How about Jetblue and their new 100 seat pay rate that is lower than your 70 seat pay rate? Both SlyWest and Jetblue don't have ALPA, but nevertheless it is ALPA's fault.

These are all contributors to the problem but they are not the cause of the problem. In terms of pilot contracts, the begining starts with MESA. Their "problem" was not caused by the MESA pilots. It was caused by ALPA policy. The MESA pilots were merely the first victims to be sacrificed on the altar of that policy. We know what has happened since then.

Yes, JB is not ALPA. But, JB did not pull those low ball rates out of a hat at a magic show. They were triggered by the ALPA decision at MDA. Call a spade a spade, General. Misery loves company. Ultimately ALL of us, you included, will pay the price if you want to fly that equipment. We will pay the price if you don't, just as CHQ pilots are already doing. The decease is highly contagious and often fatal to CBA's. But, it is just like AIDS ... you don't catch it unless you do the wrong things. ALPA and the U pilots did the wrong things and the rest of us will be infected as a result. Denying it will not change that.

We have had to swallow a pill for that first pay cut, and now a second is probably coming.

Yes, that's true and the "pill" has a bad taste I admit. However, the pill is no more than the result of a contagious decease called greed. You contracted that disease as a result of your own actions. It originated on the UAL property under the auspices of ALPA policy. You just had to go United one better didn't you? Remember your slogan ... United Plus?

American also tried to follow the ALPA line but fortunately the APA was able to change course before it was too late. NWA too was caught up in the folly and they too are on the brink. The only thing that kept CAL out of the same quagmire was the fact that ALPA wasn't able to assimilitate them soon enough to help them destroy their company. In fact, the only reason they joined the charade was an effort to protect themselves by what you might do to them (in event of a merger) if they didn't. They drank the Kool Aid but they came to the party too late and escaped the poisonous effect. They were lucky.

You guys thought you were invincible, and didn't deserve the same because "you guys are the only ones profitable..." Well, that doesn't seem to be the case now, does it?

No, we didn't think we were invincible General, we were just too small to prevent your company from swallowing us and to keep your management from destroying us.

This is a moot point today, but the strike that cost you so much most probably would never have occured if your company had not purchased my company. That's history and it changes nothing now or tomorrow, but it's true nevertheless. We of Comair didn't cause that strike. Delta management did!

As far as our smallest plane being an MD88, I don't know about that. Even in Chap 11 only one airline has gone that way with E190s(USAir with CHQ), and that really isn't settled yet. United hasn't done that, they have A319s. I am sure Delta will come to us and first offer us the 100 seater (we also have a new 737-700 pay rate that may come to fruition too), and I don't think ALPA will give that up if they don't have to. A Jetblue pay rate will probably ensue, and that will be it unfortunately.

Perhaps you are right. All of that was speculation on my part and it is speculation on your part. Our opinions have equal weight and neither one is fact. They are just opinions. What eventually comes out in the wash is left to be seen.

I can only hope that when it wash is done you will not be hurt significantly and I wish you well. I'm not naive enough to expect you to wish the same for us. I know what you really think about us for you've made it quite clear.

More 70 seaters will come around for DCI, and some with first class sections (I think CHQ's E170s have that now). That may be your future.

I agree that more 70-seaters will come to DCI. Whether or not that will include Comair is unknown but I think it is unlikely. As long as we continue to be "owned" by Delta, I doubt we will see more of anything in terms of airframes. We are likely to see a lot less of everything. In other words it will get worse before it gets better. All I can do is hope that we will have the good fortune to be severed from the status of being a Delta subsidiary. I believe that will come eventually, but it could easily come too late.

Also, rumors have been swirling that we may recall everyone by the Spring (most will stay away at new jobs probably), and we MIGHT even hire again(after TBKane is back).

I hope you'll be able to recall all of your furloughed pilots one day soon and I hope too that you will be able to hire again. The difference between us is basic General, I do not want you to fail. I see you in the same way that you see us, a millstone around our neck. I prefer to see you swim or sink on your own and I wish the same for my little company.

The attitude of your group makes our marriage one of constant conflict. A divorce will do us both a favor. Shotgun weddings seldom result in bliss and this one sure hasn't.

Give me your resume and I'll see what I can do.....

Thanks for your offer; I respectfully decline. No offense my friend but the truth is I have never wanted to work for your company and I still don't. If I have to make a change, in my opinion, there are many better options. That's not a change in my attitude, it has always been that way. Your "culture" is incompatible with my culture. I'm sorry if it bothers your psyche but personally I have never felt that Delta Air Lines was the center of the universe. I still don't. Maybe one day you'll figure that out.

Best regards.

 

[surplus1]

To my fellow Comair pilots ...

Keep the faith and stay united. The reports of our death are premature.

 

[bvt1151]

Oh yes...the first thing I thought when I saw our contract was the opportunity to screw Comair pilots and force furloughs and pay cuts. Thank God it's working out exactly the way we planned it....

You've missed the point entirely.

 

[On Your Six]

I appreciate that General; it is far more generous than words I would use to describe your musings. You see I don't find you boring, I think you're inept. I prefer to be boring.



Yes they are. Reminescent of musical chairs played on the deck of the Titanic. My worry is that my little boat is being caught in the whirlpool suction created by your settleing into the depths. I understand why you think it's our fault and I also know why it isn't.

In reality it is your management's fault. They have consistently made the wrong decisions at the wrong time. Many of the threats to your survival and ours could not be prevented. However, after the storm hit, the response of Delta management has been quite similar to the response of FEMA in the aftermath of Katrina; too little too late. Result .... a great company, like our great nation, is incredibly injured. The consequences will be felt for many years to come.

What we have (in terms of our contract) has not contributed to your fall from grace. What you grabbed (in terms of your contract) has, and it took you far too long to give some of it back.

It still isn't your fault; it is their fault. Bad management on the part of Delta's senior executives; Allen, Mullin, Reid. They ignored all the warnings, they failed to reinforce the dikes, and now the city of Delta is flooded in the cesspool. I know you won't like the analogy, and your mentally challenged supporters won't understand it, but that changes nothing. The hole in the dike is so big that even the best pumps can't drain the city of Delta fast enough to save it. Bankruptcy is now virtually unavoidable and there is no "miracle" in the offing that I can see.

There was no way to prevent the storm of industry changes from happening General, but there were many ways to pevent the destruction that followed. There were choices and your mangement failed to make the right ones, over and over again

Our union did exactly the same thing. It's president is much like the mayor of New Orleans; unwilling to make the tough decisions; unable to protect his people; incompetent. You can defend him 'till he!! freezes over but you can't chage the truth. ALPA has failed its members. Not just at Comair but everywhere. All 60,000 of us have been negatively affected by a series of bad policies continued in the face of pending disaster for well over a decade. The warnings were ignored, over and over again. Today, we are all dealing with the consequences.

You may call that whining if you want to, but it isn't. I'm not whining, I'm just not afraid to call it as I see it. The problem isn't the people (pilots) that complain about the policy. The problem is the people that make the policy.

Mistakes are understandable, we all make them (even you and I). What is not understandable or excuseable is the complete denial and inability to accept responsibility for ones failures.

Denial only causes the same mistakes to be repeated over and over again; like a drug addict on crack. That's exactly what is happening. The powers that be in the union will not admit that their polcy is wrong and so, they continue to hang on to it and repeat the same mistakes. To answer your question, that is why I blame ALPA for its role in the mess.




These are all contributors to the problem but they are not the cause of the problem. In terms of pilot contracts, the begining starts with MESA. Their "problem" was not caused by the MESA pilots. It was caused by ALPA policy. The MESA pilots were merely the first victims to be sacrificed on the altar of that policy. We know what has happened since then.

Yes, JB is not ALPA. But, JB did not pull those low ball rates out of a hat at a magic show. They were triggered by the ALPA decision at MDA. Call a spade a spade, General. Misery loves company. Ultimately ALL of us, you included, will pay the price if you want to fly that equipment. We will pay the price if you don't, just as CHQ pilots are already doing. The decease is highly contagious and often fatal to CBA's. But, it is just like AIDS ... you don't catch it unless you do the wrong things. ALPA and the U pilots did the wrong things and the rest of us will be infected as a result. Denying it will not change that.



Yes, that's true and the "pill" has a bad taste I admit. However, the pill is no more than the result of a contagious decease called greed. You contracted that disease as a result of your own actions. It originated on the UAL property under the auspices of ALPA policy. You just had to go United one better didn't you? Remember your slogan ... United Plus?

American also tried to follow the ALPA line but fortunately the APA was able to change course before it was too late. NWA too was caught up in the folly and they too are on the brink. The only thing that kept CAL out of the same quagmire was the fact that ALPA wasn't able to assimilitate them soon enough to help them destroy their company. In fact, the only reason they joined the charade was an effort to protect themselves by what you might do to them (in event of a merger) if they didn't. They drank the Kool Aid but they came to the party too late and escaped the poisonous effect. They were lucky.



No, we didn't think we were invincible General, we were just too small to prevent your company from swallowing us and to keep your management from destroying us.

This is a moot point today, but the strike that cost you so much most probably would never have occured if your company had not purchased my company. That's history and it changes nothing now or tomorrow, but it's true nevertheless. We of Comair didn't cause that strike. Delta management did!



Perhaps you are right. All of that was speculation on my part and it is speculation on your part. Our opinions have equal weight and neither one is fact. They are just opinions. What eventually comes out in the wash is left to be seen.

I can only hope that when it wash is done you will not be hurt significantly and I wish you well. I'm not naive enough to expect you to wish the same for us. I know what you really think about us for you've made it quite clear.



I agree that more 70-seaters will come to DCI. Whether or not that will include Comair is unknown but I think it is unlikely. As long as we continue to be "owned" by Delta, I doubt we will see more of anything in terms of airframes. We are likely to see a lot less of everything. In other words it will get worse before it gets better. All I can do is hope that we will have the good fortune to be severed from the status of being a Delta subsidiary. I believe that will come eventually, but it could easily come too late.



I hope you'll be able to recall all of your furloughed pilots one day soon and I hope too that you will be able to hire again. The difference between us is basic General, I do not want you to fail. I see you in the same way that you see us, a millstone around our neck. I prefer to see you swim or sink on your own and I wish the same for my little company.

The attitude of your group makes our marriage one of constant conflict. A divorce will do us both a favor. Shotgun weddings seldom result in bliss and this one sure hasn't.



Thanks for your offer; I respectfully decline. No offense my friend but the truth is I have never wanted to work for your company and I still don't. If I have to make a change, in my opinion, there are many better options. That's not a change in my attitude, it has always been that way. Your "culture" is incompatible with my culture. I'm sorry if it bothers your psyche but personally I have never felt that Delta Air Lines was the center of the universe. I still don't. Maybe one day you'll figure that out.

Best regards.

I think your response to the General (even though he can be very crass at times) is just way out of line. I don't think he advocates furloughs or that he is mocking the Comair group. You claim he wants the Comair group to fail - what? Just the opposite - it sounds like he has always been a defender of the DAL furloughs and never wanted to see anyone (DAL, Comair or anyone else) on the street.

Sounds like the General and many others (FDJ2 and others) fully oppose the efforts of the RJDC. No surprise there - fighting over scope is an issue at every airline. That was the case at UAL when I was there many years back. How did Comair respond when CHQ started to encroach on its territory (FLA) a few years back? Did Comair pilots welcome CHQ with open arms into its former territory? If you were a DAL pilot, would you encourage more CRJ flying and less mainline flying that could jeopardize your position?

It's easy to slam the General because he can be a bit blunt and even crass at times, but he is consistent. He has consistently supported the DAL furloughees and I do not see him supporting the failure of Comair or the furloughing of Comair pilots. Would he like to see a reduction in CRJ flying? Sounds like it. But the current economic situation clearly doesn't support a lot of CRJ-200 flying with low fares and high fuel prices. But don't confuse that with gloating or openly advocating any furloughs. Hopefully the job impact will not be as severe as some people would have you believe.

 

[General Lee]

I appreciate that General; it is far more generous than words I would use to describe your musings. You see I don't find you boring, I think you're inept. I prefer to be boring.



Yes they are. Reminescent of musical chairs played on the deck of the Titanic. My worry is that my little boat is being caught in the whirlpool suction created by your settleing into the depths. I understand why you think it's our fault and I also know why it isn't.

In reality it is your management's fault. They have consistently made the wrong decisions at the wrong time. Many of the threats to your survival and ours could not be prevented. However, after the storm hit, the response of Delta management has been quite similar to the response of FEMA in the aftermath of Katrina; too little too late. Result .... a great company, like our great nation, is incredibly injured. The consequences will be felt for many years to come.

What we have (in terms of our contract) has not contributed to your fall from grace. What you grabbed (in terms of your contract) has, and it took you far too long to give some of it back.

It still isn't your fault; it is their fault. Bad management on the part of Delta's senior executives; Allen, Mullin, Reid. They ignored all the warnings, they failed to reinforce the dikes, and now the city of Delta is flooded in the cesspool. I know you won't like the analogy, and your mentally challenged supporters won't understand it, but that changes nothing. The hole in the dike is so big that even the best pumps can't drain the city of Delta fast enough to save it. Bankruptcy is now virtually unavoidable and there is no "miracle" in the offing that I can see.

There was no way to prevent the storm of industry changes from happening General, but there were many ways to pevent the destruction that followed. There were choices and your mangement failed to make the right ones, over and over again

Our union did exactly the same thing. It's president is much like the mayor of New Orleans; unwilling to make the tough decisions; unable to protect his people; incompetent. You can defend him 'till he!! freezes over but you can't chage the truth. ALPA has failed its members. Not just at Comair but everywhere. All 60,000 of us have been negatively affected by a series of bad policies continued in the face of pending disaster for well over a decade. The warnings were ignored, over and over again. Today, we are all dealing with the consequences.

You may call that whining if you want to, but it isn't. I'm not whining, I'm just not afraid to call it as I see it. The problem isn't the people (pilots) that complain about the policy. The problem is the people that make the policy.

Mistakes are understandable, we all make them (even you and I). What is not understandable or excuseable is the complete denial and inability to accept responsibility for ones failures.

Denial only causes the same mistakes to be repeated over and over again; like a drug addict on crack. That's exactly what is happening. The powers that be in the union will not admit that their polcy is wrong and so, they continue to hang on to it and repeat the same mistakes. To answer your question, that is why I blame ALPA for its role in the mess.




These are all contributors to the problem but they are not the cause of the problem. In terms of pilot contracts, the begining starts with MESA. Their "problem" was not caused by the MESA pilots. It was caused by ALPA policy. The MESA pilots were merely the first victims to be sacrificed on the altar of that policy. We know what has happened since then.

Yes, JB is not ALPA. But, JB did not pull those low ball rates out of a hat at a magic show. They were triggered by the ALPA decision at MDA. Call a spade a spade, General. Misery loves company. Ultimately ALL of us, you included, will pay the price if you want to fly that equipment. We will pay the price if you don't, just as CHQ pilots are already doing. The decease is highly contagious and often fatal to CBA's. But, it is just like AIDS ... you don't catch it unless you do the wrong things. ALPA and the U pilots did the wrong things and the rest of us will be infected as a result. Denying it will not change that.



Yes, that's true and the "pill" has a bad taste I admit. However, the pill is no more than the result of a contagious decease called greed. You contracted that disease as a result of your own actions. It originated on the UAL property under the auspices of ALPA policy. You just had to go United one better didn't you? Remember your slogan ... United Plus?

American also tried to follow the ALPA line but fortunately the APA was able to change course before it was too late. NWA too was caught up in the folly and they too are on the brink. The only thing that kept CAL out of the same quagmire was the fact that ALPA wasn't able to assimilitate them soon enough to help them destroy their company. In fact, the only reason they joined the charade was an effort to protect themselves by what you might do to them (in event of a merger) if they didn't. They drank the Kool Aid but they came to the party too late and escaped the poisonous effect. They were lucky.



No, we didn't think we were invincible General, we were just too small to prevent your company from swallowing us and to keep your management from destroying us.

This is a moot point today, but the strike that cost you so much most probably would never have occured if your company had not purchased my company. That's history and it changes nothing now or tomorrow, but it's true nevertheless. We of Comair didn't cause that strike. Delta management did!



Perhaps you are right. All of that was speculation on my part and it is speculation on your part. Our opinions have equal weight and neither one is fact. They are just opinions. What eventually comes out in the wash is left to be seen.

I can only hope that when it wash is done you will not be hurt significantly and I wish you well. I'm not naive enough to expect you to wish the same for us. I know what you really think about us for you've made it quite clear.



I agree that more 70-seaters will come to DCI. Whether or not that will include Comair is unknown but I think it is unlikely. As long as we continue to be "owned" by Delta, I doubt we will see more of anything in terms of airframes. We are likely to see a lot less of everything. In other words it will get worse before it gets better. All I can do is hope that we will have the good fortune to be severed from the status of being a Delta subsidiary. I believe that will come eventually, but it could easily come too late.



I hope you'll be able to recall all of your furloughed pilots one day soon and I hope too that you will be able to hire again. The difference between us is basic General, I do not want you to fail. I see you in the same way that you see us, a millstone around our neck. I prefer to see you swim or sink on your own and I wish the same for my little company.

The attitude of your group makes our marriage one of constant conflict. A divorce will do us both a favor. Shotgun weddings seldom result in bliss and this one sure hasn't.



Thanks for your offer; I respectfully decline. No offense my friend but the truth is I have never wanted to work for your company and I still don't. If I have to make a change, in my opinion, there are many better options. That's not a change in my attitude, it has always been that way. Your "culture" is incompatible with my culture. I'm sorry if it bothers your psyche but personally I have never felt that Delta Air Lines was the center of the universe. I still don't. Maybe one day you'll figure that out.

Best regards.

It took me 4 hours to read that, and I went to Harvard......DA DA DA DAM. You can still be my right seat anytime. But, if you want to go off and try something else, I suggest writing text books or creating a new "Harry Potter" like series called "DALPAN, and his Regional Anal Probe" or "RJ DCean, and the Pretty Elves named Lawson and Forddy." You have done a great job so far with Fiction, you may make MILLIONS. I really don't want you to fail here, but I disagree with a lot of what the Comair group as a whole has done over the last 4 years. I do not wish unemployment on anyone. You seem like a good guy, just very loquacious. And, I do love my job---you are right there. That is not a bad thing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[chperplt]

It took me 4 hours to read that, and I went to Harvard

The General is always there to make me laugh!!! Harvard..... LOL

 

[WSurf]

He didn't miss the point! He avoided the point!!!!

 

[Mikes Apartment]

HEY SURPLUS 1: You suck! I don't think I've ever read any bigger bull$hit than your posts. You need to get in touch with reality dork.

 

[General Lee]

The General is always there to make me laugh!!! Harvard..... LOL

Yes, I WENT to Harvard. I was a janitor there. A movie was made about me. How do you like them apples???? My pick up line to the Harvard chicks while there---"Hey baby, I am a janitor. When you sleep, I sweep...." They loved it. And then I helped them with their Astronomical Physics homework, and they worked on my anatomy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

General: Your sense of humor never ceases to amaze me. There are too many harda$$ pilots out there who need to lighten up and take a joke every now and then. You are not amongst them.

Everybody else: The harder you try to piss off the General, the more he laughs behind the keyboard. Figure it out or he will sick his "Pretty Elves" on you too!

 

[dvmthwsvan]

Actually in the movie he worked at MIT. Remember then they went that weekend to the Harvard Bars.

 

[WSurf]

And then she said your anatomy resembled a Light Switch!

 

[73belair]

I appreciate that General; it is far more generous than words I would use to describe your musings. You see I don't find you boring, I think you're inept. I prefer to be boring.



Yes they are. Reminescent of musical chairs played on the deck of the Titanic. My worry is that my little boat is being caught in the whirlpool suction created by your settleing into the depths. I understand why you think it's our fault and I also know why it isn't.

In reality it is your management's fault. They have consistently made the wrong decisions at the wrong time. Many of the threats to your survival and ours could not be prevented. However, after the storm hit, the response of Delta management has been quite similar to the response of FEMA in the aftermath of Katrina; too little too late. Result .... a great company, like our great nation, is incredibly injured. The consequences will be felt for many years to come.

What we have (in terms of our contract) has not contributed to your fall from grace. What you grabbed (in terms of your contract) has, and it took you far too long to give some of it back.

It still isn't your fault; it is their fault. Bad management on the part of Delta's senior executives; Allen, Mullin, Reid. They ignored all the warnings, they failed to reinforce the dikes, and now the city of Delta is flooded in the cesspool. I know you won't like the analogy, and your mentally challenged supporters won't understand it, but that changes nothing. The hole in the dike is so big that even the best pumps can't drain the city of Delta fast enough to save it. Bankruptcy is now virtually unavoidable and there is no "miracle" in the offing that I can see.

There was no way to prevent the storm of industry changes from happening General, but there were many ways to pevent the destruction that followed. There were choices and your mangement failed to make the right ones, over and over again

Our union did exactly the same thing. It's president is much like the mayor of New Orleans; unwilling to make the tough decisions; unable to protect his people; incompetent. You can defend him 'till he!! freezes over but you can't chage the truth. ALPA has failed its members. Not just at Comair but everywhere. All 60,000 of us have been negatively affected by a series of bad policies continued in the face of pending disaster for well over a decade. The warnings were ignored, over and over again. Today, we are all dealing with the consequences.

You may call that whining if you want to, but it isn't. I'm not whining, I'm just not afraid to call it as I see it. The problem isn't the people (pilots) that complain about the policy. The problem is the people that make the policy.

Mistakes are understandable, we all make them (even you and I). What is not understandable or excuseable is the complete denial and inability to accept responsibility for ones failures.

Denial only causes the same mistakes to be repeated over and over again; like a drug addict on crack. That's exactly what is happening. The powers that be in the union will not admit that their polcy is wrong and so, they continue to hang on to it and repeat the same mistakes. To answer your question, that is why I blame ALPA for its role in the mess.




These are all contributors to the problem but they are not the cause of the problem. In terms of pilot contracts, the begining starts with MESA. Their "problem" was not caused by the MESA pilots. It was caused by ALPA policy. The MESA pilots were merely the first victims to be sacrificed on the altar of that policy. We know what has happened since then.

Yes, JB is not ALPA. But, JB did not pull those low ball rates out of a hat at a magic show. They were triggered by the ALPA decision at MDA. Call a spade a spade, General. Misery loves company. Ultimately ALL of us, you included, will pay the price if you want to fly that equipment. We will pay the price if you don't, just as CHQ pilots are already doing. The decease is highly contagious and often fatal to CBA's. But, it is just like AIDS ... you don't catch it unless you do the wrong things. ALPA and the U pilots did the wrong things and the rest of us will be infected as a result. Denying it will not change that.



Yes, that's true and the "pill" has a bad taste I admit. However, the pill is no more than the result of a contagious decease called greed. You contracted that disease as a result of your own actions. It originated on the UAL property under the auspices of ALPA policy. You just had to go United one better didn't you? Remember your slogan ... United Plus?

American also tried to follow the ALPA line but fortunately the APA was able to change course before it was too late. NWA too was caught up in the folly and they too are on the brink. The only thing that kept CAL out of the same quagmire was the fact that ALPA wasn't able to assimilitate them soon enough to help them destroy their company. In fact, the only reason they joined the charade was an effort to protect themselves by what you might do to them (in event of a merger) if they didn't. They drank the Kool Aid but they came to the party too late and escaped the poisonous effect. They were lucky.



No, we didn't think we were invincible General, we were just too small to prevent your company from swallowing us and to keep your management from destroying us.

This is a moot point today, but the strike that cost you so much most probably would never have occured if your company had not purchased my company. That's history and it changes nothing now or tomorrow, but it's true nevertheless. We of Comair didn't cause that strike. Delta management did!



Perhaps you are right. All of that was speculation on my part and it is speculation on your part. Our opinions have equal weight and neither one is fact. They are just opinions. What eventually comes out in the wash is left to be seen.

I can only hope that when it wash is done you will not be hurt significantly and I wish you well. I'm not naive enough to expect you to wish the same for us. I know what you really think about us for you've made it quite clear.



I agree that more 70-seaters will come to DCI. Whether or not that will include Comair is unknown but I think it is unlikely. As long as we continue to be "owned" by Delta, I doubt we will see more of anything in terms of airframes. We are likely to see a lot less of everything. In other words it will get worse before it gets better. All I can do is hope that we will have the good fortune to be severed from the status of being a Delta subsidiary. I believe that will come eventually, but it could easily come too late.



I hope you'll be able to recall all of your furloughed pilots one day soon and I hope too that you will be able to hire again. The difference between us is basic General, I do not want you to fail. I see you in the same way that you see us, a millstone around our neck. I prefer to see you swim or sink on your own and I wish the same for my little company.

The attitude of your group makes our marriage one of constant conflict. A divorce will do us both a favor. Shotgun weddings seldom result in bliss and this one sure hasn't.



Thanks for your offer; I respectfully decline. No offense my friend but the truth is I have never wanted to work for your company and I still don't. If I have to make a change, in my opinion, there are many better options. That's not a change in my attitude, it has always been that way. Your "culture" is incompatible with my culture. I'm sorry if it bothers your psyche but personally I have never felt that Delta Air Lines was the center of the universe. I still don't. Maybe one day you'll figure that out.

Best regards.

I just wanted to quote this again and see if I could make a page 3!

 

[General Lee]

Actually in the movie he worked at MIT. Remember then they went that weekend to the Harvard Bars.

Great, you ruined my story! The actor who actually played my character in the movie was Ben Affleck. I love bringing down walls with sledge hammers! Then, I always grab a cold beer and chug it. (PS---JLO was great in bed)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And then she said your anatomy resembled a Light Switch!

They (huge numbers) turned it on all night long, over and over and over.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[flyinglow]

Didn't read the whole post, but let me see if I got this right. Delta is going to cut back on Comair CVG flying, while at the same time they are adding however many E 170's through chatakeaway. Question, does this make the deal Comair pilots took on the pay freeze to get more jets null and void? Or, is it just DAL bending Comair over as far as they can. So to sum up, chatakeaway wins again and Comair looses. Is that right? What a great industry.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Taco Rocket

You guys didn't replace any of PSA or PDT flying at all. Don't you realize all the E-145 will be gone from CLT in the end of January!! All of them!! There will be no more E-145's flying for US Airways by Mesa.

I am very familiar with this issue.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Taco Rocket

Mesa is nothing more then a parasite that allows mainline to rape some money from the WO's. Kinda like a hired hit man!
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/blogsection/11/91/
And did you go to that link. Mesa is at the bottom of almost every catagory!! Give me a break!! And you wonder why everyone in the industry doesn't care for Mesa!

No, I don't have any illusions about Mesa. It is what it is. However I am curious as to why you think the CRJ-900 flying is temporary? That's what I am trying to wake you guys up to: JO is planning an invasion of 900 flying on the east coast. It is a matter of time before Mesa's 900 fleet doubles. The seat mile costs are lower than AWA's mainline costs. JO is getting out of 145 and other 50 seat flying in the US system because the 50 seaters are going to gradually go away. Wake up! hese planes are coming to CLT next bid and will fly to: IAH, MEM, ATL, ILM, and other places. Look in SABRE if you doubt it. Mesa has been HP express for years and is not going away. Get a plan together and unite for your future. Best of luck!