Comair MEC endorses contract changes

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I would like to say thank you yo Cha and Mesa pilots . Thank you for the position you have put us in. Thank you for making this all possible by agreeing to your contracts.

Do you Cha pilots ever think about the harm you have done while your flying those Delta painted airplanes around? Do you even have a clue? After all our sacrifices, we are now at this point.

I would like for just one of you, just one, to admit you made a mistake. To admit to what you have done. Maybe then say next time, you will not be so stupid. Next time, you won't fall for the Mesa alter ego trick. Next time, you will have some pride and dignity.

I am disgusted that I will have to give back what we all should have. When I say all, I mean all the pilots who fly these airplanes. All Phred needs is 50% plus one, and even with my no vote, I'm afraid he will get it.

So the next time you report for work, think about the harm you have done to ALL of us. When you pay your bills at home, think about ALL you left on the table. When your company reports those huge profits, think about ALL the money your executives put in their pockets.

Some Cha pilot was on here crying about being bumped off a flight gy a Comair pilot. This pilot was soooo pissed. Think about how that compares to the harm your pilot group has done to that Comair pilot. He complained about the 100.00 it cost him. How does that 100.00 compare to the 10's of thousands of dollars your contract is about to cost that Comair pilot?

This IS personal. This IS bad. This WILL effect the way I think when I am at the gate and a Cha pilot is trying to get on and if you can't understand that, too bad.

 

[DAL737FO]

This IS personal. This IS bad. This WILL effect the way I think when I am at the gate and a Cha pilot is trying to get on and if you can't understand that, too bad.

I hope you are just venting and not really serious about starting a jumpseat war. No one wins in such a situation. Matter of fact a lot of commuters lose.

 

[Caveman]

No question that subpar contracts are a player in all of this but I think the CHQ pilots are unreasonably vilified. They have a part in it but at least they moved forward.The recent CHQ contract is better than what they had before. They were in a unique set of circumstances and were pretty much forced to 'buy' some scope protection. No, their pay didn't come up to our level, but all things considered they made some pretty significant improvements. They did what they had to do.

With the exception of CHQ and XJT every contract change over the last four years has been regressionary. CHQ and to a larger extent XJT actually improved their positions. SkyWest agreeing to fly 70's at 50 rates is, IMHO, the single most damaging influence on the downward pressure on wages in recent memory. Don't forget that AWAC gave up 6% of their original contract.

CMR pilots have been under enormous pressure to keep the bar where it is and we've done it alone. What we are being asked to consider is a difficult choice. We may have to 'buy' some growth opportunity or continue to stagnate. How much longer should we be expected to hold up the pay levels while watching all the growth go to pilots that are willing to do it for less? We've been stagnate for 2 years. If you'll guarantee me that at least one of you will match us in the near future I'd probably continue to RISK my families future for the greater good. But where's the help? I haven't seen any. Every body has a reason why they can't quite get to our level. The fact remains, though, the CMR pilots are on an island and no one is stepping up to support our level of compensation. What would you do? Continue to watch your company atrophy or accept the fact that the industry has forced you to SLIGHTLY capitulate so that you can prosper to fight another day? If I thought that ASA was going to match or beat us I would stay the course. Frankly, I think ASA will in all probability accept what may be our adjusted contract. The fact that the ASA MEC was involved in the discussions with our MEC seems to support that idea.

I want to see the details but if it is palatable I am leaning towards a 'yes' vote. I've learned in life that you have to pick your battles and sometimes make unpleasant choices. This may be one of those times. I'm not ready to dive on my sword for the rest of you when none of you have shown any indication that you'll do the same for me. We took it on the chin for 89 days and set the standard. Four years has gone by and no one else has shown any willingness to risk their future to help the cause. We can't do alone. Until someone else steps up to the plate I'm done. I'll take a pay freeze, start growing again and let someone else do the grunt work. We did our part. Now it's your turn.

 

[Rabble]

I agree with 99% of what Caveman said but I want to take a minute to talk about this 70 seat compensation "problem".

Long before the CR7 ever appeared on the scene airlines were using pay differentials (or no pay difference at all) for crews flying different models of the same aircraft.

At Comair we treat the 70 like a totally different animal!! It's the same airplane and we should ALL be trained on it.

The 757/767 are flown by common crewmembers at most airlines (with a pay differential). The 737-200,300,400 are all flown by common crewmembers (rarely with a pay differential, Delta Express and Metrojet excepted)

PSA and Skywest crews both fly both varients.

Maybe we are the ones that are making it more difficult for these other companies to efficiently operate their fleets. Just because we are inefficient does not mean we should subject other airlines to our foolish decisionmaking. We should all be trained in that machine and, perhaps, given an override when we fly it. If not, then perhaps a blended payrate based on the percentage of CR7s in the fleet. Either way we would not be setting a precedent.

I cant blame our competitors for making a smarter business decision than our management and union made.

 

[CF34-3B1]

P.s. I welcome any pilot on my jumpseat.

That's something I hope we ALL agree on, no matter what our other differences of opinion.


Jumpseat wars are pointless.

 

[Caveman]

Rabble,

Can't say as I disagree with you except that because we were flying the 70 before SkyWest we did set the precedent. Therefore, a standard for 70 seat compensation was established and they chose to ignore it. I also think that we should blend the 50/70 CRJ fleet at CMR and treat it like most mainline 75/76 arrangements. How are we going to do that now that SkyWest has effectively said that there is no difference? If a 70 seat version of the same aircraft isn't worth more pay then how can we demand more for a 90 seat version? For example, what if SkyWest gets the E170? It only has 70 seats so the pay should be the same as the CRJ70, right? Next they get the E190 but because it's essentially the same as the E170 no pay increase for that either. See what I mean?

If the pay rates for the smaller versions of the a/c were blended to account for the larger a/c I wouldn't have a complaint. But they aren't. They simply chose to fly 70's for already established 50 seat rates while simultaneously ignoring already established 70 seat pay.

 

[P38JLightning]

freeze vs cut

DO NOT blame us. CHQ has NEVER taken a pay cut/freeze for growth.
Yes you did. Your FO's are frozen at year 4. A 15 CHQ 100 seat jet FO makes less than a second year Comair FO. Your CA's snuck in just under the bar for the junior ones, and well below for senior ones.


If you guys decide to sell your souls to Fred, suck it up and quit blaming everyone else for your trouble.
You are not taking a cut to save jobs. You are voting to take a cut to get flying.

Yeah, our flying. Our original orders and options that were cancelled and diverted to you because we have kept the bar where it has been for years.

Our CEO approached our MEC this past month to take concessions, they told him to pound sand.

Because you are growing at a rate so fast it is hard to immagine growing any faster. If faced with stagnation and *gasp* 7 year upgrades you would find a way to get the growth by any means necessary. I can see the logic now...gee if we stagnate we will be frozen at frozen FO pay forever, so we might as well agree to fly left seat for right seat pay so we can grow!

You are the highes paid... blah blah blah... That was yesterday. Today is the test to see if you can hold the line.

No friend, yesterday when you inked your undercutting contract was the test. The Skywest 70 seat pay "vote" was the test. Mesaba on the verge of a strike and caving was the test. Mesa, well, we all know how that "test" went.

If you take the cuts, to each his own, but quit blaming everyone else and making excuses.

A pay freeze barely long enough to allow some of your pay rates to catch up is hardly a cut and even if it is in spirit, it is because of your rates. Sadly there is no solidarity in this profession. You are our biggest competitiors and your pay has been kicking us in the jimmies for 2 years now.


P.s. I welcome any pilot on my jumpseat.

So do we and you know it. One isolated example, even if it really happened, is just that, one isolated example.

​

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

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Some poor Fo will see you typing your garbage @ a hotel or on the company computer and sell you out for a $100.00. .

Comair doesn't have any "company computers."

 

[ERJDRVR]

Yes you did. Your FO's are frozen at year 4. A 15 CHQ 100 seat jet FO makes less than a second year Comair FO. Your CA's snuck in just under the bar for the junior ones, and well below for senior ones.



Yeah, our flying. Our original orders and options that were cancelled and diverted to you because we have kept the bar where it has been for years.

Our CEO approached our MEC this past month to take concessions, they told him to pound sand.

Because you are growing at a rate so fast it is hard to immagine growing any faster. If faced with stagnation and *gasp* 7 year upgrades you would find a way to get the growth by any means necessary. I can see the logic now...gee if we stagnate we will be frozen at frozen FO pay forever, so we might as well agree to fly left seat for right seat pay so we can grow!

You are the highes paid... blah blah blah... That was yesterday. Today is the test to see if you can hold the line.

No friend, yesterday when you inked your undercutting contract was the test. The Skywest 70 seat pay "vote" was the test. Mesaba on the verge of a strike and caving was the test. Mesa, well, we all know how that "test" went.

If you take the cuts, to each his own, but quit blaming everyone else and making excuses.

A pay freeze barely long enough to allow some of your pay rates to catch up is hardly a cut and even if it is in spirit, it is because of your rates. Sadly there is no solidarity in this profession. You are our biggest competitiors and your pay has been kicking us in the jimmies for 2 years now.

1) We have 2, count them 2 FO's beyond the 4 year scale by choice.

2) How is it anymore your flying than ours? Mother Delta owns a sizeable chunk of us. Do not forget, not too long ago you guys were not W/O's.
How many of your orders were sent to ASA & Skywest?

3)

15 CHQ 100 seat jet FO makes

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean?

4)

Because you are growing at a rate so fast it is hard to immagine growing any faster. If faced with stagnation and *gasp* 7 year upgrades you would find a way to get the growth by any means necessary. I can see the logic now...gee if we stagnate we will be frozen at frozen FO pay forever, so we might as well agree to fly left seat for right seat pay so we can grow!

Whatever you need to say to yourself justify your pay cuts.....

 

[uncle]

ifly4food...

It's more disappointing to read your post. Do you have some connections and have seen the proposal? I'm a Comair FO and haven't seen it yet. Personally, I'm tired of hearing from pilots at other regionals about how our pilot group must "hang in there" & "stay strong". While theirs fold and take crappy concessions and are undercutting the rest of us. I haven't made a decision on how I will vote, because I haven't seen the proposal. But I can tell you that I'm not upset with Fred for trying to lead the company, he is the president, I'm upset with the selfish, hipocritical, immature and short-sighted pilot groups who have put Comair in our current position.