Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[flaps30]

question

What will keep the senior DAL pilots from resetting the scope again ? If the company wants paycuts or scope reduction, which will the MEC pick ? I have a feeling the 57 seventy seater limit will fall.

x-midway

 

[ShaftedbyJI]

Clarification

Face it, isn't it silly for Bill Buergey to go to CVG to discuss the hiring of Delta pilots when the decisions are actually made on Virginia Ave in Atlanta? Why does the Delta MEC Chairman have to even waste his time talking to the Comair MEC when Delta decides how many and who Comair hires!

FINALLY, someone who knows the REAL truth to the situation!!!!Comair's MEC didn't make the policy MANAGEMENT did. I tried to stay out of this silly little debate but it was just too much!

Regards,
Shafted

 

[Freight Dog]

Afellowaviator,

What your MEC did was very anti-unionlike.. using furloughed ALPA pilots as an extortion tool for additional gains in expansion of Comair flying is WRONG! While I agree with you that MEC's job is to look after the interests of their own pilot group, please tell me how is he looking after your interests by not endorsing the hiring of furloughed ALPA brothers/sisters? Does it affect you in any way if your junior-most FO is a 1200-hour CFI, a furloughed Delta pilot, or a former Midway pilot? If Delta MEC came to ya and said.. we want a flow-through/flow-back in place and super-seniority over current Comair pilots, then there would be no question that by saying no, your MEC would be looking after your interests. Right now.... he's screwing his ALPA brothers/sisters at the parent airline, and IMHO his behavior is best described as morally low, and I can truly hope that Delta guys won't forget this.

Best regards.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Afellowaviator,

What your MEC did was very anti-unionlike.. using furloughed ALPA pilots as an extortion tool for additional gains in expansion of Comair flying is WRONG! ......Does it affect you in any way if your junior-most FO is a 1200-hour CFI, a furloughed Delta pilot, or a former Midway pilot? ...... I can truly hope that Delta guys won't forget this.

Best regards.

So how "unionlike" is it for your Delta MEC Chairman to refuse to discuss a seniority number for Comair pilots because of his concern that military pilots don't want to start at the bottom at a regional airline? That is what this thread is about! The Comair MEC correctly asked for something objective in exchange for their efforts, not a empty promise of preferential hiring when Buergey came right out and said it was his preference that military pilots be hired first.

The hypocracy of you guys is nothing short of amazing. Buergey says that he does not want to water down the gene pool at Delta by making it more difficult to attract military pilots while he completely over looks the fact that our operationally integrated airlines fly the same passengers and we happen to be in the same union. For some reason your MEC Chairman feels a greater obligation to pilots learning to fly T-41's than he does ALPA members flying 75,000 lb jets at .85 full of Delta passengers that his pilots need to fill their airplanes on a daily basis.

 

[Lumber Yak]

I'll keep it simple.

Main issue of thread: preferential treatment. ASA provides furloughed pilots with preferential hiring. Comair does NOT extend the same treatment due to greedy MEC Chairman who uses furloughed pilots as bargaining chips: "we won't help your furloughees unless X, Y, Z..." Delta MEC chairman is very upset. ASA and Delta MECs agree to preferential hiring - IN WRITING. Comair pilots don't get agreement and instead enrage Delta pilots.

Any discussion about changing the scope clause is now moot. You can disagree all you want, but listen to NYRanger (furloughed Delta pilot) above when he says, "We won't forget." I hope the Comair MEC chairman understands the implications of his actions for his constituents...

Spin this any way you want. The fact remains, furloughed pilots were used as bargaining chips - JUST THINK ABOUT IT. How would YOU feel if you were on the other side of the coin?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Lumber Yak:

If Comair and ASA and Delta are not operationally integrated, why doesn't your MEC Chairman trot over to Jet Blue, Airtran, Southwest, Skywest, or Fed Ex with his proposal?

Why are we so special at the wholly owned Connection carriers?

Also, how do you feel about the reasons for your MEC Chairman refusing to engage in negotiations for an objective agreement? How do you feel about his logic?

Apparently your MEC Chairman also puts military pilots ahead of furloghees at Delta, after all that was his reason for refusing to negotiate!

 

[NYRANGERS]

Lumber Yak:

If Comair and ASA and Delta are not operationally integrated, why doesn't your MEC Chairman trot over to Jet Blue, Airtran, Southwest, Skywest, or Fed Ex with his proposal?

Why are we so special at the wholly owned Connection carriers?

Also, how do you feel about the reasons for your MEC Chairman refusing to engage in negotiations for an objective agreement? How do you feel about his logic?

Apparently your MEC Chairman also puts military pilots ahead of furloghees at Delta, after all that was his reason for refusing to negotiate!

Actually this is being discussed. Why cant we try to get a preferential situation with other cariers? Just because comair pilots don't want to work for Delta, doesn't mean another ALPA MEC wont try to secure preferential treatment. I think you will find that us Delta guys and girls have no loyalty towards anyone but the ASA guys and girls. We are going to shop around and see what kind of mutual agreements we can come up with.

Please, no more comments from our "friends" at comair. This is a done deal. You don't want us and we surly don't want you.

 

[flaps30]

Ranger get a job

I'm sure you're gonna find some other regional that will get on their knees for king Delta. You should be more worried about your MEC giving away "your flying". Those senior Delta guys are gonna sell you out, mark my work. When push comes to shove and their pay and retirement are on the line, the regionals will continue to expand and the scope will weaken.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

NYRANGERS,
I swear, you sound like a 2 year old. Grow up.This "you don't want us and we don't want you" CRAP IS REALLY CHILDISH.
Plenty of our pilots will get delta jobs if they want, and your childish tantrum will not change a thing.


The real issue is that our MEC does not have any obligation to help secure future jobs for us, period. Even you can't argue that. There decision making process has absolutely nothing to do with secureing jobs. Every single decision they make has to do with making our careers AS COMAIR PILOTS, let me repeat, AS COMAIR PILOTS, better.
Your MEC came to the meeting with a problem that affects the Delta pilots and our MEC came to the meeting with a problem that affects our pilots. But YOUR rep only wanted to discuss YOUR problem, and launched threats when our rep said it is a two way street.
As long as you have those idiots manning your MEC, nothing will get better for you and those are the facts.

Now, obviously you think it is our MEC's job to seek out job opportunities, or you would not be mad. Please direct me to where that is written in the CB&L'S.tRUTH IS , IT AINT THERE, AND YOU KNOW IT.

We did not put our concerns aside and bow down to your MEC's threats, and THAT is why you all are soooo mad. GET OVER IT!

 

[skydiverdriver]

I think it's so ironic that we are a separate company whenever it might benefit Comair pilots, but we are all one big happy family whenever it might benefit Delta pilots.

The reason ASA hires Delta furloughees is because that has always been their policy. Comair has always had the policy that they must resign first. Nothing has changed, except that the Delta pilots are all upset about this.

Well, when we wanted to discuss a PID with you guys, you wouldn't even talk to us. At least we were willing to meet with your MEC, and still are. I think we took the high road on this deal.

 

[Freight Dog]

Actually, ASA and CMR had an identical policy regarding hiring furloughees. ASA changed theirs, while CMR kept theirs.

I think it's so ironic that we are a separate company whenever it might benefit Comair pilots, but we are all one big happy family whenever it might benefit Delta pilots.

The reason ASA hires Delta furloughees is because that has always been their policy. Comair has always had the policy that they must resign first. Nothing has changed, except that the Delta pilots are all upset about this.

Well, when we wanted to discuss a PID with you guys, you wouldn't even talk to us. At least we were willing to meet with your MEC, and still are. I think we took the high road on this deal.

 

[surplus1]

Please, no more comments from our "friends" at comair. This is a done deal. You don't want us and we surly don't want you.

You know that may be one of the more accurate posts you've made, but you still got it sort of backwards. Are you implying that you "wanted us" before this happened? That's laughable.

How about this. 1) It was not possible for the Comair MEC to burn any bridges, the Delta MEC tore them all down many months ago. 2) With "friends" like we have in the Delta MEC, who needs enemies? 3) It's not a done deal, there is just no deal. 4) You have never wanted us and you've made that more than clear. Why do you suddenly expect us to want you?

This tempest in a tea pot, may well be the third time that the Delta MEC has tried to use a Comair MEC decision to further its own political agenda. DMEC did it when we rejected your alleged offer of a flow-through. An offer on which you could not deliver then, wasn't really a bonafide offer at all and one that you had no authority to make (that authority comes from the Company, not the DMEC). In other words, a bogus "offer". DMEC did it again when you announced, after the PID filing, that we were demanding DOH and trying to "steal your seniority". Your DMEC used that ploy to incite Delta pilots and create animosity towards Comair pilots, who never asked for or expected DOH. Now you come with an alleged "offer of preferential hiring". An offer that you can't back up, have no real authority to make (that comes from the Company too) and no ability to honor.

As Afellowaviator points out, it is a transparent political ploy. The DMEC has been ineffective in protecting the jobs of Delta pilots, ineffective in preventing furloughs, ineffective in enforcing Scope and ineffective in getting furloughed pilots recalled. What better way to change the focus of Delta pilots from the ineffective MEC policys than to find the handy Comair scapegoat once more and blame the Comair MEC for your plight. That's exactly what you did. Now you can justify being "angered" and make threats against Comair pilots, while continuing to stew in the mess you have created for yourselves.

So our MEC isn't falling on its face and scrambling to accept a bogus offer on which you can't deliver anyway. Thank the Lord it didn't. On top of that your MEC Chairman has the nerve to tell us that his bogus preferential offer is preferential only after his buddies that don't work for either company get the more preferential, preferential hiring and, if we don't agree to what he wants, then he's going to "go public". Wow! Our MEC should really tremble in its boots at that threat. What, it didn't? Great!

Both the DMEC and the ALPA have declared that we are a separate airline. Guess what, there are lots of other "separate airlines" out there that are hiring pilots. How come you don't offer them preferential hiring and get them to hire you while you retain your seniority at DAL? Maybe they won't be smart enough to figure out that you really have nothing to offer them in return. The DMEC does not control the hiring process at Delta Air Lines now and you won't in the future. Like a whole lot of other things, you just think you do.

Face it, your MEC just picked the wrong place to attempt to throw its weight around. I have no doubt whatever that your Chairman knew that well before any meeting took place. Thus the ploy was made for political reasons and nothing more.

As for the propaganda that the ASA MEC "gave you" preferential hiring, that's BS too. ASA management decided to hire furloughed Delta pilots on its own. The ASA MEC was smart enough to jump on the political bandwagon that was handed them by their management. No more, no less. Good for them but it sure didn't happen because of anything they did to make it happen.

Comair management has decided not to hire furloughed pilots who refuse to relinquish their seniority at another airline. There is no reason whatever why the Comair MEC should go to battle with Comair management to secure a benefit for an MEC that has repeatedly proven it is quite willing to act against the best interests of Comair pilots.

Is it sad that things are this way? You bet it is. The line pilots at Delta didn't cause this mess. As our MEC told your MEC, the door is open. Come back when you have something to say. Meanwile, BRAVO to the Comair MEC!

 

[rjcap]

As for the propaganda that the ASA MEC "gave you" preferential hiring, that's BS too. ASA management decided to hire furloughed Delta pilots on its own. The ASA MEC was smart enough to jump on the political bandwagon that was handed them by their management. No more, no less. Good for them but it sure didn't happen because of anything they did to make it happen.

Thankyou for reiterating this.

There was never any ASA MEC or Delta MEC involvement in this decision. It was a management decision that was initiated to rehire some ex-ASA pilots who happened to go to the last 3 or 4 new hire classes at Delta.

It was done as a personal favor. Period.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

SURPLUS1,

Good post.!

 

[sleepy]

Thankyou for reiterating this.

There was never any ASA MEC or Delta MEC involvement in this decision. It was a management decision that was initiated to rehire some ex-ASA pilots who happened to go to the last 3 or 4 new hire classes at Delta.

It was done as a personal favor. Period.

The ASA MEC was consulted before the decision was made to hire DAL furloughs was made. Our MEC President told Skip that it was the right thing to do. I do not know if we would be hiring DAL furloughs if the ASA MEC had been opposed to it.

Glad our MEC made the right decision.