comair lay-offs

[BenderGonzales]

I agree there. The outsourcing of flying to low-wage affiliates is very advantageous to management. It's low cost. It divides the pilot group. It becomes a multi-fronted whipsaw. Groups begin to compete for flying.

There's no downside for management... until one of these 500 hour wondersticks puts one in the dirt. Until then, I don't see the direction changing. Senior pilots will never sacrifice retirement or base compensation in order to purchase job security for junior pilots.

 

[h25b]

There's no downside for management... until one of these 500 hour wondersticks puts one in the dirt.

Did you happan to notice how amazingly quiet they kept the unbridled incompetence of the Pinnacle flight ? Wonder why ? If that flight would've had just one paying passenger... Care to speculate where we'd be today ?

 

[PropsR4Boats]

I think EMB has done a real good job of making their airplanes idiot proof. With the exception of the light switch (turn the strobes off guys…I can’t see!) I think the airplane does every thing for them.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

That's professionalism

Hmm, I don't know maybe because we are professionals we should show up for work when we are scheduled to work. Maybe we missed a few people last year during christmas, we could always strive for perfection and strand another 30k trying to get home to see ma and pa. The job sucks, but you still shine your shoes and press your shirt and get the cheap bastards from a to b.

That's what I did right up to my furlough. It sucks to leave all that time, but if you call in it just hurts your fellow pilots. I finished my last trip fro AA (TWA LLC) Oct. 31st, turned in my stuff and commuted home to take the kids tick-or-treating. It was more of a trick than a treat for me.

It was funny there was really bad weather the last night of my flying, holding deverted for fuel and was the last plane to make it to HOU before a small tornado. The Marriott was a mess with stranded customers. I thought, all that performance with shinned shoes and a crisply pressed shirt and I was still gone the next day. I flew that last leg home with the high-speed below 10,000', turned in my stuff, the Captain bought me lunch before my commute and I was done. Sick time in tact.

At least I left with the pride that I did my job professionally and gave my best effort to the last day. Nobody can take that away from me, but it doesn't pay the bills!

 

[smarc130]

Sorry, but i got to throw some gas on this one...

its all a big game and make no mis-STEAK(like last xmas, i missed my steak and had chinese food, not this xmas though) union or no union, ITS team you-know-who vs. everyone else, and sick time is a tool, and if you got some to use on xmas because last year your were watching Rudolf the RNR on the hotel tv on xmas eve, stranded because of some random computer F-up, followed by some egg foo young on xmas day, with the same crew instead of your hot girlfriend (i know your watching baby), then i say BANG RIGHT OUT, and have a nice HOT TADi, and some Cheesecake, with your feets up on the lazy boy @ home, because thats score one for you and less for the man.

Lets face it, if this applies to you, then NOW HEAR THIS, your career is tracking right along with this _hitty time in the airline industry, where this situation could happen every xmas, until this MGMT pukes figure out how to run an industry post de regulation, (its only been 27 years now dudes), in a way that if the service was priced for profit, there wouldn't be 4+ Majors in Ch 11!!!!!!!! and thats that.

 

[goodpilotithink]

That's what I did right up to my furlough. It sucks to leave all that time, but if you call in it just hurts your fellow pilots. I finished my last trip fro AA (TWA LLC) Oct. 31st, turned in my stuff and commuted home to take the kids tick-or-treating. It was more of a trick than a treat for me.

It was funny there was really bad weather the last night of my flying, holding deverted for fuel and was the last plane to make it to HOU before a small tornado. The Marriott was a mess with stranded customers. I thought, all that performance with shinned shoes and a crisply pressed shirt and I was still gone the next day. I flew that last leg home with the high-speed below 10,000', turned in my stuff, the Captain bought me lunch before my commute and I was done. Sick time in tact.

At least I left with the pride that I did my job professionally and gave my best effort to the last day. Nobody can take that away from me, but it doesn't pay the bills!

You Sir, deserve respect. Good luck to ya.

 

[RichO]

Sorry, but i got to throw some gas on this one...

its all a big game and make no mis-STEAK(like last xmas, i missed my steak and had chinese food, not this xmas though) union or no union, ITS team you-know-who vs. everyone else, and sick time is a tool, and if you got some to use on xmas because last year your were watching Rudolf the RNR on the hotel tv on xmas eve, stranded because of some random computer F-up, followed by some egg foo young on xmas day, with the same crew instead of your hot girlfriend (i know your watching baby), then i say BANG RIGHT OUT, and have a nice HOT TADi, and some Cheesecake, with your feets up on the lazy boy @ home, because thats score one for you and less for the man.

Lets face it, if this applies to you, then NOW HEAR THIS, your career is tracking right along with this _hitty time in the airline industry, where this situation could happen every xmas, until this MGMT pukes figure out how to run an industry post de regulation, (its only been 27 years now dudes), in a way that if the service was priced for profit, there wouldn't be 4+ Majors in Ch 11!!!!!!!! and thats that.

Dude, sorry if I read this message first, I wouldn't have just sent you my version of this msg to your ol'e-mail......but hey, I'll buy you a Tadi if you ever get your *ss out west......However I agree with your post hands down.......

 

[RichO]

That's what I did right up to my furlough. It sucks to leave all that time, but if you call in it just hurts your fellow pilots. I finished my last trip fro AA (TWA LLC) Oct. 31st, turned in my stuff and commuted home to take the kids tick-or-treating. It was more of a trick than a treat for me.

It was funny there was really bad weather the last night of my flying, holding deverted for fuel and was the last plane to make it to HOU before a small tornado. The Marriott was a mess with stranded customers. I thought, all that performance with shinned shoes and a crisply pressed shirt and I was still gone the next day. I flew that last leg home with the high-speed below 10,000', turned in my stuff, the Captain bought me lunch before my commute and I was done. Sick time in tact.

At least I left with the pride that I did my job professionally and gave my best effort to the last day. Nobody can take that away from me, but it doesn't pay the bills!

This was real moving, I think I have a tear in my eye........NOT

 

[HoursHore]

After the TA with the pay Freeze, I seem to remember language that the freeze would go away with retro pay if the company's promise of more jets wasn't fulfilled. Has the Bankruptcy negated that? Or is that something the union will pursue?

 

[DrewBlows]

After the TA with the pay Freeze, I seem to remember language that the freeze would go away with retro pay if the company's promise of more jets wasn't fulfilled. Has the Bankruptcy negated that? Or is that something the union will pursue?

Seeing that the company and the union are starting concessionary negotiations at the end of the month, I think that you can put that part of the TA in the "null and void" catagory.

 

[V-1]

I would expect the demise of the L.O.A. (it's not a Tentative Agreement once it's been ratified) should be counted against a portion of the 19.3 million management is looking to extort from the pilot group.

As you noted, the L.O.A. requires to company to compensate pilots according to the old contract language, should the company fail to live up to it's obligation. I would expect the union to subtract the value (to the company) of the L.O.A. from that $19.3 million demand.

I seem to remember the L.O.A.'s cost to the pilot group being pegged at somewhere around $8 million. If that's correct, that puts the pilot group nearly half way towards meeting the $19.3 million demand...before touching any section of the remaining contract.

Just some thoughts...I see the L.O.A. as an integral part of the contract that has a definable value. If the aircraft don't come, or are parked...the company owes everyone a previously negotiated raise, unless through negotiations the union offers to give up the L.O.A. in exchange towards credit against the $19.3 million demand.

 

[jetflyer]

V-1,
I see your point, but I think what management wants management is going to get?

If what you say were true, wouldn't they just ask for $8mil + $19.3mil= 27.3 mil?

Jet

 

[Phony Marconi]

Did you happan to notice how amazingly quiet they kept the unbridled incompetence of the Pinnacle flight......

excellent choice of words! If I were that eloquent, dude, I'd be doing another career which actually PAYS!

However....ALPA says this is not true....the dudes were competent!!!

Four-One F*#ng OH!

 

[NYCPilot]

A lot of competent high time pilots with experience find themsleves with no one aboard and end up horsing around too. You might say pilots will be pilots. I knew two guys who were repositioning for a 135 pax pickup at a local airport in a Lear 35, one which both have flown into hundreds of times and they crashed. The Capt. had 3500 hrs. and the F/O had 9,000. According to the NTSB report, they made some pretty sharp low altitude turns, hotdogging the airplane on a circling approach. Unfortunately, they lost control and both perished in the crash.

 

[100LL... Again!]

I agree there. The outsourcing of flying to low-wage affiliates is very advantageous to management. It's low cost. It divides the pilot group. It becomes a multi-fronted whipsaw. Groups begin to compete for flying.

There's no downside for management... until one of these 500 hour wondersticks puts one in the dirt. Until then, I don't see the direction changing. Senior pilots will never sacrifice retirement or base compensation in order to purchase job security for junior pilots.

BINGO!

There will never be pilot unity as long as the disparity between the top and the bottom is so large.

Chalk it up to the greedy bastrds who forged the first contracts.