COMAIR in Atlanta....

[ERJdca]

sleepy Why harbor any ill feeling toward any other pilot group (Comair, ACA, Skywest, Chit, or Comair)? There is nothing any of us in the DCI system can do about flying that we are getting or giving away. We are all just pilots trying to do our jobs. We have no control over this process. I can't imagine DCI management giving us any either. sleepy Why harbor any ill feeling toward any other pilot group (Comair, ACA, Skywest, Chit, or Comair)? There is nothing any of us in the DCI system can do about flying that we are getting or giving away. We are all just pilots trying to do our jobs. We have no control over this process. I can't imagine DCI management giving us any either.


I only wish more people thought like this! I got treated like **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** trying to commute home the other day on comair(and they had plenty to say about CHIT and how they dont like those guys). I didn't vote for my contract(mesa). I wasn't trying to steal someone else's flying. I was hired as a pilot and thats what i do. I can't help managements decisions, neither can those guys. Im sure not all comair guys are like this, infact i have quite a few buddies over there. I just wish we would stop attacking "pilot groups!"

 

[General Lee]

Captainv,

I was not attacking you and I certainly would not want any of the RJ's scrapped. No way. I think they play an important role in our Delta family. I understand their use, and sometimes I bring up the fact that I wish we had some at Mainline, only because I know quite a few of our 1300 or so furloughs. I never wanted to "take" any of your 70 seat RJ's away, I just want to do something with our furloughs. I am not against any particular Comair pilots---with the exception of Lawson and some of his cronies. I just have the opinion that their views may one day hurt the chances of the regular Comair line pilots. I respect all professional pilots, and would never treat anyone poorly on any jumpseat. I thank the ASA pilots for helping our furloughs, and wish the Comair MEC would allow the same for our pilots out of work. I understand how it feels when you are "freakishly tall," and think that you will someday feel relieved when you are piloting a 767 at Delta----the cockpit is huge---and you can easily do jumping jacks in there.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[captainv]

Gen. Lee,

Once again I am in complete agreement with you, especially in support of bringing the furloughees in at Comair with no strings attached. perhaps one day we can make it happen.

i've had the pleasure of jumpseating on a 767 several times already, it's like an apartment up there. i can only imagine how cavernous the 777 must be. one day!

 

[General Lee]

No doubt--captainv--no doubt

 

[surplus1]

Gen. Lee,

Once again I am in complete agreement with you, especially in support of bringing the furloughees in at Comair with no strings attached. perhaps one day we can make it happen.

It's amazing captainv, that you're busy agreeing with General Lee, who advocates banning you for life from Delta, but (in another thread) you don't even know what your union dues will be when you get off probation. Nevertheless you are willing to disagree with your MEC. It's little wonder the union is so screwed up.

I hope you realize that when the people you are supporting win the battle they are waging against us, and succeed in transfering our airplanes to themselves, it is YOU that will be on the streets. Ignorance is truly bliss.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

Maybe Captainv actually understands the situation better than you do. All I have ever said was that I was mad that Comair, a company owned by Delta and a sister/brother of ASA, was not allowing our furloughed pilots a chance at the bottom of their list without resigning their Delta number. I didn't think this would be such a huge request since ASA (Your brother/sister) has allowed the same. I am not mad at the regular Comair line pilot, only the MEC chair and some of his immediate cronies. Captainv understands the fact that we should have some "unity" here, and my aggression has been focused on people who think they should hold our furloughed pilots, who mostly can't find new work in this great jobmarket, as hostages for things that they want. That is essentially what your Mec Chair expressed to Buergey. He did not come to our aid when we needed it, sort of like when we did support you when you needed our help. I would much rather have unity and our furloughs to have the ability to get back into the cockpit, especially since you are hiring. I have commented on the fact that we should get some of the "new" 70 seaters---over the 57 you will get---because we will have 1300 pilots out of work. What should we do with them? I am concerned because I have many friends that are among them. That is why I have advocated getting some 70 seaters. I have stated that the "comair pilot group" might have some problems getting hired at Delta in 3-4 years (after our furloughs come back) because it is TRUE that your MEC Chair is hurting your collective image. This is a true statement. His lack of wanting to be an FO someday on a Delta MD-88 is hurting all of your chances. He wants to stay a Captain, and could never see himself as an FO for anyone else. That is bad for you. I have stated all of this to hopefully spur some of you into action, to tell your feelings to your elected people. If you do not wish to ever fly at Delta someday, well--fine. Some people do not want to, and I can understand that.

All I have ever wanted here was to help my fellow pilots and furloughs through this tough period. I do not have a specific agenda, and I am not a spokesman for anybody other than myself. I can see that captainv might want to eventually fly for Delta, and I am sure that others might feel the same. It is a great job and I love doing it. But, some people have to understand that this period of time is one of our lowest here at Delta, and a lot of our people NEED HELP and SUPPORT, kind of like what you were going through in the Summer of '99. It would appear to some people (most people) that a double standard is going on here---we help you when you need it (in every legal way we could), and in return you do not help our furloughs when they need help. (Going to the bottom of your list, flying the crappy trips, being on reserve forever, etc) That is what I am talking about. I think captainv has it right, and he might want us to pull together in bad times like these. You don't always have to "get something" when others are in need. (example---less limits on 70 seaters, and more 50 seaters, more growth) Those limits in our contract have not restricted you in the past 2 years. You have grown HUGE in the last 2 years, with many many upgrades and fleet expansion. And now you want more, at the expense of our pilots who are out of work. That just doesn't seem right. And we DID help you when you were striking---giving money (along with others), some walked the line with you, and we did not fly any struck work. What have you done for us and our furloughs??? I'm waiting.

Thanks Captainv for your support. I know there are a lot out there just like you.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JECKEL]

I am not against any particular Comair pilots---with the exception of Lawson and some of his cronies. I just have the opinion that their views may one day hurt the chances of the regular Comair line pilots.

General Lee,

I'm kinda tired of the this stuff your are shoveling. You make a statement like the one above and you think people will be fooled about your true intentions.
The only way "regular" Comair pilots are going to "one day" be hurt is not by JC Jawson and his views, but by Delta mainliners, like yourself, who are going to stick it to every Comair guy when the day comes.
For what it's worth, my jumpseat is always open to you and all Delta pilots and I wish the best for the furloughees.

 

[General Lee]

Jeckel,

I also am very nice to you and your Comair pilots who wish to jumpseat. I am sure there are a lot of "tired" furloughed pilots from Delta who are "tired" of looking for a job without having to move their whole family out of CVG. As far as mainliners like me "sticking it" to the average Comair guy that wants to get hired someday at Delta, what about the 1300 or so mainline furloughs that weren't even offered the chance to interview without losing their own numbers at Delta? You seem to forget about the "help" we gave you during your strike. You and your friends who might want to interview someday at Delta might want to say something LOUD to your MEC and change their mind. They are speaking for you as a whole. I am "tired" of Comair people saying it is not their FAULT. Do something about it. The senior guys have helped elect their friends, but you probably have a lot more junior people who might want to get on someday with Delta. Your MEC Chair has said "CRM" is the factor here----relayed by Fred Butrell at a recent Delta pilot meeting in ATL. Well, why would we want to hire any of you? There could be huge CRM problems......Guys are retiring quickly, the economy is getting better, and loads are going up. When the furloughs come back (maybe within 3-4 years total)---we will start hiring again. The ball is in your court.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[embdrvr]

How is it that Rectal Lee turns every subject into bashing the CMR MEC for not doing more for furloughed mainline pilots? I don't have a lot of love for Lawson but he didn't come out and say don't hire DAL guys. He just didn't insist that company policy be voided to accomodate them. If I was in his shoes I would have tried to do more to help but I'm tired of every thread turning into Lawson bashing. I'm also tired of the assumption that every regional pilot wants to be working for mainline Delta. It ain't so.
G.L., can't you find a hobby, wife, girlfriend and not spend every day on these boards? You must carry a laptop with a wireless connection. I'm guessing whenever you have 5 or 10 minutes free during a turn you must be on the PC.
Get a life and quit ragging on the regional pukes.
Seriously.

 

[General Lee]

Embdrvr,

You're really cool. I'd love to slam you but I have many friends who fly Embreaers and I think they are neat planes. Rectal lee huh? Creative. I have been called an "a$$" before by many people. So, Lawson "didn't insist the company policy be voided to ACCOMODATE us" huh? What a load of crock. Even Fred Butrell told us in a recent ATL crew lounge meeting that it was due to "CRM" issues. Fine. We can do the same. And, you don't want to work for Delta? Ok? You are in the MINORITY. The industry runs in cycles, and when we start hiring again after our furloughs get back, you might be changing your mind. If not, well ok then---stay there.

Why do I write on the board often? Well, I often go flying on 3 to 4 day trips, and I do not have a laptop. I actually care about the furloughs at this company, and I check the news often and check this board from time to time. In my free time I lift weights, play tennis, and kiss my wife. Atlanta has a lot to offer out doors, and I take advantage of that. Thanks for caring.

As far as staying off YOUR board, I thought anyone was allowed to write on any board? Is that wrong Embrdrv? Are you the boss? Lay off.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[embdrvr]

GL,
All I'm trying to say is you hijack every thread and turn it into Lawson bashing. Many of us are tired of it seeing it every day on every thread.
I feel for anyone who is furloughed right now. I hate to see anyone on the street. I have friends and family that are either furloughed or spent time on furlough. It's an ugly situation that noone is happy with. I'm sure almost everyone agrees.
Many CMR guys and gals would support mainline furloughees joining CMR as a new hire. Lawson does not speak for every swinging di_ck on the property. You've chosen to turn this into a vendetta against all CMR pilots, the majority of which are not your enemy.
Obviously I don't own this board but you're sounding like a broken record.

 

[General Lee]

Embdrvr,

I have said many times that I am not against the regular Comair line pilot, just the MEC Chair and his cronies. I cannot believe that I supported a group (and I really did---I wanted you to win, and I happily signed those checks for you guys), and the group's LEADER does not want to help my friends that are on furlough. I can't believe it. Can I get over it? Probably. But, I have to hear about my friends and their job searches, and their WORRIES often. It makes me feel bad that I am still flying and they are not. I just want them to get back in the air. That is what I want, and by getting on this forum and seeing what your views are, it helps me a bit. I am a team player, and if you were to ever get on this team, I would support you too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[embdrvr]

Embdrvr,

I have said many times that I am not against the regular Comair line pilot, just the MEC Chair and his cronies.

Do I need to pull up some of your previous posts where you make threats that noone from CMR will get hired at Delta? That doesn't sound like something that you'd be saying if your only gripe was with Lawson et al. You have gone on record stating that CMR pilots won't be hired at Delta due to the actions of the CMR MEC? Are you denying those statments?

 

[captainv]

Surplus1,

Actually, beyond the issue of furloughees, Gen. Lee and I rarely agree. in this thread, we agreed that 1) it would suck to sit in the back of an RJ for 3 hours and 2) 767s have large cockpits. feel free to look up some of my past posts.

why do i back bringing the furloughees to Comair? a good friend of mine, who taught me how to fly, is one of them. he's paid his dues and then some, through instructing, flying in the regionals in conditions far worse than i enjoy today. when his hard work pays off, he gets hired at Delta, his dream job. and then 9/11 happens and soon after he's on the street.

I, on the other hand, have had a pretty easy ride in my career. i fell into a sweet corporate gig early on and didn't have to make the sacrifices that he did. so then, with no previous airline experience, i land a job flying at Comair, a great airline, flying a great airplane. it's really been a lot of fun so far. meanwhile, even though he's got years of airline experience, he's unemployed. i just think that's unfair. that's the way the airlines work, and we all sign up knowing it can happen, but it still sucks.

union dues: the actual percentage was mentioned to us at the dinner they held for us in the first week of training, haven't heard a thing about it since. all my manuals and whatnot are in cincy, so i made a guess in that post. i was wrong, so thanks for putting up the correct info. i'm not sure i see the significance though, whatever the percentage is, i still have to pay it. (once i'm off probation, of course)

and, yes, i am willing to disagree with my MEC. is that wrong? am i not able to form my own opinions about things? in large part, i participate on this board to help flesh out my own opinions. as you know, i'm new to all this, so it'll take a while. i don't hold myself out as being some kind of expert on how to make things right, but i'm not afraid to express my view of things. i'd certainly like to hear your take, especially considering your wealth of experience compared to mine, but don't expect me to agree with you until i see the validity in your arguments for myself.

for example, i wasn't here during the strike, so i don't know what went on. did Delta pilots support you or did they try to screw you? it depends on who you ask. what really happened when our MEC met the Delta MEC. Did the Delta MEC try to railroad us into taking their furloughees, knowing we'd react defensively, so they could start a PR war against us? Our did our MEC tell Delta to p1ss off, in retribution for treatment we received during the strike? Or did Delta management nix the whole idea before it was offered, because Leo doesn't want the pilot groups to work together? Or did our management say no because of the training costs involved, and because it might hurt attendance at the Academy if the students think they won't have an interview spot? in my short time here, I have heard either a Delta or Comair pilot swear to me that each of the above was the REAL reason behind the current ruckus. so which is it? and how do you know?

as for being furloughed, i already dodged one bullet by turning down ACA and waiting for a class date from Comair. my gut feeling is that the RJ won't go to mainline. however, if i were to get furloughed, i doubt that simply changing my opinions to match yours would in any way prevent that from happening. still, i'd like to hear your thoughts on things. you may find that we agree on more than you might think.

Captainv





Surplus1: It's amazing captainv, that you're busy agreeing with General Lee, who advocates banning you for life from Delta, but (in another thread) you don't even know what your union dues will be when you get off probation. Nevertheless you are willing to disagree with your MEC. It's little wonder the union is so screwed up.

I hope you realize that when the people you are supporting win the battle they are waging against us, and succeed in transfering our airplanes to themselves, it is YOU that will be on the streets. Ignorance is truly bliss.

 

[JECKEL]

General Lee,

Why do you keep quoting Fred Butrell?

Is he your father? (just kidding)

No really. Why is what this management type, who I'm sure goes to sleep every night wondering how he can whipsaw the pilot groups again, says the "Gods Honest Truth".
Of couse he is going to say someting like that to a group of Delta folks - Comair CRM issue. And you evidently bought it hook, line and sinker.

Whipsaw comes in many forms my friend.
Fred Butrell probably laughed all the way back to his office.

 

[Anaconda]

It's amazing captainv...you don't even know what your union dues will be when you get off probation. Nevertheless you are willing to disagree with your MEC. It's little wonder the union is so screwed up.

give me a break...

what are your dues surplus? from what i've heard they are $0.00 since you don't work at comair anymore...

i don't know what my dues are either, are you going to bash me? oh, wait, you already did that once before...

 

[Anaconda]

Even Fred Butrell told us in a recent ATL crew lounge meeting that it was due to "CRM" issues.

you actually believed that???

JECKEL, good post.

 

[General Lee]

Anaconda and Jeckel,

Well, what am I supposed to think? You have to back up your words with action. Fred Butrell and Fred Reid (No, I don't believe everything they say) recently gave a talk in the ATL crew lounge. They both were taking a lot of flack, and a lot of our pilots were asking what was up with Comair. Fred B. claimed it was a "CRM" problem, but did say that ASA was hiring our furloughs (this is NOT flame bait---he said this to our pilots), but not many have tried so far, then someone pointed out that ASA has pretty much stopped hiring due to the E120 parkings. I think they would rather not give some 70 seaters to us, but we pressed them on that issue. In the end they said that if the price was right, then maybe.....I am sure Dalpa is looking into it. We have to do something with our 1260 furloughs (1310 in June), and Comair and ASA(right now anyways), are not helping the situation. I am not trying to flame anyone, I am just trying to state the facts as I see them. Fred Butrell, by the way, is not my father----I am just relaying what he said in an actual meeting at our lounge. I give the facts.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CarjCapt]

I give the facts.

Facts=Koolaid

 

[General Lee]

Koolaid from a guy that runs your company. I haven't seen your MEC Chair come out and say, "Hey guys, come on over. We feel for you and we thank you for supporting us when we were striking. We won't even try to take advantage of this situation by asking for things in exchange for LETTING your unfortunate furloughs fly our crappiest trips on reserve forever...." I just don't think I will ever hear that from Lawson. Tell me one thing in that made up quote that is inaccurate? Tell me. This isn't flame bait, it is a real question.

Bye Bye--General Lee