COMair in ATL

[Palerider957]

On time?

I wandered into Ops the other day and had a frank discussion with one of the long time guys there. He told me, in no uncertain terms, that the current "on time" numbers are totally false.

Apparently when we call out/off, these numbers are noted, but only for payroll (premium, overblock etc.) The GATE also calls numbers to operations and THOSE numbers are the ones used to determine our on time performance. He showed me a page full of numbers, gate time, vs. pilot times. NOT ONE OF THEM MATCHED.

If our on time performance were acurately recorded it would be more abyssmal than it currently is. The gate doesn't want to get gigged for being late, so they call it something beneficial to them.

Hey, it's always a "crew delay" anyway......

An earlier poster hit it on the head: ATL rampers don't have much to work with (shi.tty, broken down equipment. And total overcrowding), and they are less than motivated. ASA guys have gotten used to it, and have refined the late PA "We sure apoligize for the delay......."

 

[bvt1151]

Re: On time?

...current "on time" numbers are totally false.

You are absolutely correct! When we pull out of ATL and call in the times, we noticed that when we checked our schedule later, all out times were 10 minutes earlier than we reported. Makes me some money, however if the public ever catches wind of how scewed the on-time performances are, especially when its intentional, ATL will be in for a shakeup. There's already been some frustration in the accuracy of the on-time numbers in the professional journals.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

E twr told us yesterday that we don't need to call our times anymore that the times are put in from the gate! ok....so the times are going to be really off. From what i got from the cp's office, the times in the can are what goes to our pay. Far as I am concerened clock for me starts at door close, if they want to put in a different time...whatever.
DD, I wish I could agreee with you but believe me the rampers (for the most part, not all) could not care less if they are told to hit the road. Like was posted earlier, a piss test takes quite a few every time. The MOD asked me today how the dept coordinators were working out. I told him unless they have authority over the rampers, catering, cleaning and fuel, all they are, are just another person on the ramp.

 

[captainv]

ATL

First off, everything i've read here has been dead on about the ATL rampers. although i will say that the past few departure coordinators have been good - busting their a$$ to keep our delays to a minimum.

one thing to consider though - the city of Atlanta looks at Hartsfield as an enormous jobs program, apparently with special emphasis on people who would be useless in any other capacity.

actually, most civil workers in ATL share the same attitude - where the focus is simply in getting paid, not providing any actual work. when i came up here a few years back, it took 3 full days to get a Georgia Driver's license, but at least that's one civil service debacle that's actually been fixed.

even though our current mayor is vastly better than the last, i wouldn't expect much to change in the quality of rampers. i get the feeling the city would rather have them wasting our time at the airport than roaming the streets with nothing to do.

Captainv

 

[surplus1]

Your message seems to imply that the ATL rampers are civil servants of the city of ATL or the airport authority. If you check a little closer, I think you will find that they are employees of the respective airlines.

 

[captainv]

Comair in ATL

>Your message seems to imply that the ATL rampers are civil servants of the city of ATL or the airport authority. If you check a little closer, I think you will find that they are employees of the respective airlines.

of course they're employees of the airlines, i was just saying that the horrible work ethic of the airport rampers is shared by many of the city's civil servants. (one could also argue that many of them come from the the same hiring pool) sorry if i didn't make that clear enough.

also, even though it is the airlines or food service companies that hire the employees, the city takes a huge interest in how Hartsfield is run. For decades, it has been a political patronage system (albeit not at the ramper level).

i'd be interested to see the reaction at the airport if Comair were to transfer some rampers down there. i'd love to have them there, but i think it'd cause a ruckus...

Captainv

 

[winged princess]

To add my 2 cents to the ATL situation.....

I go in there several times a trip. Last week was the worse. We had been sitting there for 1 1/2 hours and started getting service and 71 passengers about 15 minutes prior to departure time. If my FO and I had not been out helping, we would still be there.

ATL is the worse station I have ever seen. This was my briefing to the passengers, "I apologize for the delay leaving ATL. This CVG based, Comair crew and airplane have been here for 1 1/2 hours. Unfortunately we were unable to get the ASA Atlanta ramp and gate to do there job."

There is also a writeup going to Comair. One of our Chief Pilots told me to write up every incident in ATL. They want to make sure we don't get blamed for the delays. Not sure if I want to spend that much time writing....

I can't believe I used to complain about our CVG ramp!! We have a great station and ramp and gate crew!!! We could probably TDY some rampies to ATL and it would be worth the extra expense. It doesn't help that they have to use fuel trucks from a different company.

It is amazing that Comair had the foresight to build the terminal and operate the way they have for almost 10 years!! Thank God!!

I feel sorry for the ASA pilots, you must be very patient or very frustrated!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually: The airport is worse than that. There are two sets of redundant positions in the airport staffing structure. The politician's buddies have offices in the Atrium and two sets of phone numbers, the public numbers that they never answer and private numbers so their friends and co workers can actually reach them.

Their jobs are to award contracts for the work that they are not doing. (If a contract requires 10 staff to do the job, then 12 people have to administer the contract)

Then private companies such as AATC do some work, while subcontracting most everything they do not want to do to another tier of sub-contractors. From the AATC on down the process gets more efficient and less political - but the political jobs go to the people we never see. You used to see their cars, however. Remember all the very nice autos in the covered parking even closer than the hourly lots - that's them.

I agree that the new Mayor is a huge improvement. However, this problem goes all the way back to the WMBE offices in the early 70's. The fact that the World's busiest airport works as well as it does is amazing to me and a credit to the folks at the AATC (who are acutally paid and run by the airlines, but sort of supervised by the City).

Someone tell me, why does the City of Atlanta even have their hands in an airport located in Hapeville anyway?

 

[~~~^~~~]

To add my 2 cents to the ATL situation.....

ATL is the worse station I have ever seen. This was my briefing to the passengers, "I apologize for the delay leaving ATL. This CVG based, Comair crew and airplane have been here for 1 1/2 hours. Unfortunately we were unable to get the ASA Atlanta ramp and gate to do there job."

That announcement would get us a visit to the Chief Pilot's Office. Numerous memos have been written and ASA distributed a QRH guide to passenger announcements covering most situations.

Bottom line, the passengers do not give a flying fornication that Comair is better in CVG. In Atlanta, Comair stinks just as bad as a E120 lav in August. Your passengers see you as Delta Connection, no different that Delta, the airline they bought your ticket from.

To some degree, management has a point that venting your frustration to the cabin does not make the passengers more understanding, it just makes them angrier, being reminded of the fact they are late.

You can take some solace in the fact you are growing while ASA is shrinking and our Captains are being displaced. As bad as you hate Atlanta, we ASA Captains sure wish it was us flying out of our senior base. We would gladly trade with you.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

There isn't enough time in the day for me to post stories of ramper (and others ie gate, cleaning, catering) horror stories....
As I said before...A great way to treat the people who pay their salary.

 

[sleepy]

The ramp in ATL is the way it is because that is the way Delta wants it to be. If they wanted to improve it, it would be done. Don't make the mistake of believing that ASA management does anything without the approval of Big D.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Seems hard to believe with all of the pi$$ed off passengers...
Had a redcoat and a d/c both on the other day trying to get me to board..no A/C cart, no pwr cart either. Went through 4 until one worked. The redcoat told me they only had 3 out of 12 ac units working! All of the broken tugs, trucks, pwr carts etc......you would think with these idiots breaking all of the equipment all the time they would start firing people....boy that would be a change!
I bet the employment flyers put out around here go something like this...
Do you want to work in the airline industry?? Whoops, get PAID to work in the airline industry?? Come to work, cruise the 'hot' chicks at the airport concourse's?? Be able to drive all different kinds of equipement and not worry about being responsible for it if you happen to put a small dent in it??? Take breaks all day and then catch the bus?? Well COME ON DOWN!!! WE WANT YOU!!!

 

[MJG]

Don't feel too bad this is the way it is in all major cities with all airline employees. Why do you think Southwest stays out of the big cities? Delay times.... no to avoid these kind of employees. We see the exact same thing day in and day out in Newark and in Houston.

Heard this excuse the other day: "blah, blah, blah, we can't park you right now because about half the shift didn't show up today..."

 

[FL000]

This was my briefing to the passengers, "I apologize for the delay leaving ATL. This CVG based, Comair crew and airplane have been here for 1 1/2 hours. Unfortunately we were unable to get the ASA Atlanta ramp and gate to do there job."

How professional. All that flight time and however many years flying, and that's the best you can come up with?

The customer doesn't want to hear, "that's not my job" or, "you're late because others are not doing their jobs." They want the job done, period; and they don't give a d@mn who gets it done. They want to go home.

Perhaps you could go to work for ASA ramp services and show the rampers how it's done. Of course, you'll need to work on your writing and spelling skills before they'll consider you.

 

[winged princess]

Whew!! Sorry I pissed so many pilots off.

First of all, I wish the Chief Pilot would call me in. What did I say that was a lie?? Actually, the passengers were able to see my crew and I go above and beyond to get the flight out. And they applauded when I made that briefing.

Second, I wish you guys were flying your own ATL stuff. Again, marketing does not check with me.

Third, I still think some of our guys from CVG could make a world of a difference on the ramp in ATL.

And last, sorry about my spelling, my flight time and that I offended you.