Comair hires Delta pilots...

[DAL737FO]

The CMR MEC was right the first time and it is wrong this time. This latest manuever is purely political and a bad move. It shows weakness of judgement, not strength. There has been no change in events that justifies this reversal. If we as a group are going to ask our Company to change its hiring policies, the change should apply to ALL furloughed pilots with no preference for anyone.

Well here is one thing that you and I agree on. You should give any pilot an equal shot. It's funny this seniority number business. My class at Delta was a diverse mix of regional, military and fractional pilots. Not one person was asked a question about seniority numbers. If you have a good enough company then I really don't think it would matter. People will stay because they like the job.

Cheap politics is the cause of our problems with Delta pilots. More of it will not solve them.

Please elaborate about the cheap politics? This seniority number thing was done by your MEC. Whatever politics are behind it was driven from your side of the fence.

 

[surplus1]

Please elaborate about the cheap politics? This seniority number thing was done by your MEC. Whatever politics are behind it was driven from your side of the fence.

The "politics" have been ongoing since 1995 and they really don't have anything to do with resigning seniority numbers. It's been hashed and rehased so many times that there isn't much I could say that I haven't said already, a dozen times or more.

We don't agree that the politics was "driven from my side of the fence". From my perspective, it is the other way around. None of you were affected previously so you chose to not notice.

This issue affects you directly (or you think it does) so you (your MEC) have chosen to make it a huge issue for political reasons. Your MEC has done that before with other issues. Your MEC's real animosity has nothing to do with furloughed pilots, it is directly related to our objections to being controlled by them (DMEC). That is what they don't like.

If tomorrow we were to roll over and agree to whatever they do, however they do it, we would be given a piece of candy for being "good little children" and allowed to watch TV for an extra hour. This isn't about seniority numbers, its about power. Someone is telling the DMEC that it does NOT have the power to control the lives of Comair pilots, and they don't like it. The DMEC is accustomed to getting its way and can't deal with being told NO. They are countering with anti-Comair political campaigns and you (the Delta pilots) are the pawns in their game.

Most CMR pilots do not wish to be pawns of ALPA's ill-advised policies or of the Delta MEC. We are resisting that and as long as we do the DMEC and ALPA will both find reasons why we should not be "liked". They can't defend their illigitimate policies so they switch to attempts to brand us as the pariah of the month for not giving in. Typical dirty politics, which has been ALPA's "friend" for decades.

Seeing as how when we were "liked" it did us no good, it is a better choice to protect our own interests than trying to win ALPA popularity contests, which is not possible unless we agree to "suck up".

Should our MEC decide to wear knee pads, hopefully we will have the fortitude to replace it with one that doesn't crawl.

 

[737 Pylt]

Your MEC's real animosity has nothing to do with furloughed pilots, it is directly related to our objections to being controlled by them (DMEC). That is what they don't like.

Of all the nonsense you type Wil, this one stands out!
Please provide proof that the DMEC wants to control the CMR MEC?? Not just, I heard from a friend who's brother is on the MEC, Written proof that we (DAL MEC) want to control the CMR MEC.
If anything, that POS Dan Ford keeps sending his letters requesting that he and his rjdc losers want to be involved in any DALPA negotiations. Sorry pal, that isn't the way it works. DALPA negotiatiates with DAL management, and CMR ALPA negotiates with CMR management. Get it??
regards,
737

 

[kc81900]

Well, I suppose we could say that's "noble" or whatever else you would like to call it. If I'm not mistaken, when the furloughs began the CMR MEC asked the Company to hire ALL furloughed pilots in preference to those not furloughed. That's the proper way to "send blankets" when there's trouble. You don't single out one group that is "more worthy" of blankets than the other.

Now I have some more questions.

1. Why should the CMR MEC demand that Comair hire furloughed Delta pilots in preference to furloughed pilots from other airlines?

2. If Comair pilots were furloughed, do your really believe that the Delta MEC would go out of its way to demand that Delta hire furloughed CMR pilots in preference to anyone else or even without any preference at all?

If you do believe that, I have an ocean-front lot in Arizona that I'll sell you real cheap.

Sorry, but your logic is just like the Delta pilots logic. They have decided that they should be first in line above others and you agree with them. I can't agree with either one of you. A furloughed USAir pilot with 15 years seniority is a lot more in need of a "blanket" than a furloughed Delta pilot with 18 monts seniority, and there are a lot more of the former. If you're going to pick and choose who you send blankets to, then send them where they are most needed.

I think your "because it's the right thing to do" is obviously prejudice in favor of a particular group, and that translates not to generosity but to political opportunism.

The CMR MEC was right the first time and it is wrong this time. This latest manuever is purely political and a bad move. It shows weakness of judgement, not strength. There has been no change in events that justifies this reversal. If we as a group are going to ask our Company to change its hiring policies, the change should apply to ALL furloughed pilots with no preference for anyone.

Cheap politics is the cause of our problems with Delta pilots. More of it will not solve them.

question 1. I do not believe the cmr mec is demanding that Delta furloughees be hired. They have stated that the MEC would support mangements position if they decided to hire Delta furloughees. they still have to interview and start as a new hire. should they be considered before another furloughed airlines pilot? Yes. Because we are the same company. Should CMR/ASA be considered over other pilots when and if Delta ever hires again? Yes. Because we are the same company.

question 2. NO I DO NOT BELIEVE DELTA MEC WOULD SUPPORT CMR/ASA IN ANY WAY. I do believe these pilot groups, the MEC's and ALPA national have to start moving in the right direction. IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE. And I don't see ALPA national or DALPA doing the right thing.

If CMR wants to be considered a part of the same company which they are than it has to act like it. With that said Delta MEC has to do the same and recognize ASA/CMR and Delta are the same company and our combined futures are intertwined.

i do believe CMR has hired furloughed pilots from United and USAir they may have or may not have resigned their seniority. I am betting they have not resigned their seniority numbers with those carriers.

 

[surplus1]

Of all the nonsense you type Wil, this one stands out!

First of all my name is not Wil so you can quit calling me that and you can quit fishing. I'm not asking your name so don't ask mine. I have no interest in who you are personally, only in what you say in public. When you write things with which I do not agree I will let you know, so get used to it. When you make reference to my airline or to my fellow pilots, you will get a response. You may read it if you wish or ignore it if you wish, but you will see it if you choose to sign on and read.

Please provide proof that the DMEC wants to control the CMR MEC??

When the time comes the necessary proofs about the activities of ALPA and the DMEC will be provided to a judge and a jury in a court of law. Not to you. Additionally, it is not the CMR MEC that you seek to control, it is the activites of Comair and as such the future of all Comair pilots. If and when you should gain control of the CMR MEC we will replace it with one that you do not control, so the MEC is not a problem. If you choose to respond to what I write, don't take it out of context and don't impute meanings that I did not give. I write what I mean, not what you think I mean.

If anything, that POS Dan Ford keeps sending his letters requesting that he and his rjdc losers want to be involved in any DALPA negotiations.

Confine your name calling and your personal insults to your own kind. I have not attacked you or anyone else personally so don't do it to me. As for Dan Ford, he happens to be a friend of mine, you are an unknown and I would stack him up against you any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm quite sure you've never met him personally so again, confine your low level remarks and name calling to your own kind and spare me the need to reply

He doesn't want to participate in "DALPA" negotions, neither do I or anyone else that supports the RJDC. If your are not capable of understanding the issues then, candidly, that is your problem.

What we want you to do is stop negotiating our futures and our flying. Whether you deny it or not your MEC has been trying to do that for years and continues doing it as I write. If you are going to bargain with our future then we have a right to participate. Bargain for yourselves and we will mind our own business. Use us as your negotiating capital and bargaining "chips" and you will get more and more interference until the courts force you to stop.

As for DALPA, you might as well know that from my perspective is it a non-entity. The bargaining agent is the ALPA. I couldn't care less what "DALPA" does. On the other hand as a member (like you) I do care what ALPA does and I have a voice that is the equal of yours. I don't care whether or not you agree with that or whether or not you like that, that is the way it is under the law. When my union bargains the issues that affect my job I have a legal right to participate in that bargaining and be represented. I don't need your consent and don't care if you give it or not. I will exercise my right and when my union denies that right, I will seek recourse in the courts. If that makes you unhappy, you know exactly what you can do.

Sorry pal, that isn't the way it works. DALPA negotiatiates with DAL management, and CMR ALPA negotiates with CMR management. Get it??
regards,
737

No, I don't get it. When you've learned enough then you will "get it". If you don't, the courts will "get it" for you.

I am more than happy to debate any issue with you or anyone else. Like you, I have strong opinions and I voice them. I do not call anyone names in the process. The only thing that cofirms is that you have little of substance to say.

One final thing: Do not confuse debate with dictate. You are free to do the former, as am I. Attempts at the latter are fruitless.

Regards to you as well.

 

[737 Pylt]

oh brother, where to start??

First of all my name is not Wil so you can quit calling me that and you can quit fishing. I'm not asking your name so don't ask mine.

Whatever!

When the time comes the necessary proofs about the activities of ALPA and the DMEC will be provided to a judge and a jury in a court of law.

OK, so there is no proof, just what I thought, more rjdc spin. You guys are so desparate, I would think Dan Ford has the market covered in that, but you do pretty good too!

I have not attacked you or anyone else personally so don't do it to me. As for Dan Ford, he happens to be a friend of mine, you are an unknown and I would stack him up against you any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

For the one man trying to uproot the industry, do more damage than any scabs have over the past 50 years, that shows the kind of person you are!

He doesn't want to participate in "DALPA" negotions, neither do I or anyone else that supports the RJDC. If your are not capable of understanding the issues then, candidly, that is your problem.

Maybe you need to talk to him more! Tell him to stop sending faxes and cert. mail to the DMEC requesting to be in on DALPA negotiations. More rjdc spin huh??

What we want you to do is stop negotiating our futures and our flying. Whether you deny it or not your MEC has been trying to do that for years and continues doing it as I write. If you are going to bargain with our future then we have a right to participate. Bargain for yourselves and we will mind our own business. Use us as your negotiating capital and bargaining "chips" and you will get more and more interference until the courts force you to stop.

Nobody is negotiating your futures of flying. one thing you forget Wil is that "your flying" is done under the DAL code. As long as that happens, then that "flying" belongs to the Delta Pilots. We allow you (CMR) to do that flying for us under the "scope provisions" of our contract.

As for DALPA, you might as well know that from my perspective is it a non-entity. The bargaining agent is the ALPA. I couldn't care less what "DALPA" does. On the other hand as a member (like you) I do care what ALPA does and I have a voice that is the equal of yours. I don't care whether or not you agree with that or whether or not you like that, that is the way it is under the law. When my union bargains the issues that affect my job I have a legal right to participate in that bargaining and be represented. I don't need your consent and don't care if you give it or not. I will exercise my right and when my union denies that right, I will seek recourse in the courts. If that makes you unhappy, you know exactly what you can do.

Actually, I agree with you there, no problems there.

I am more than happy to debate any issue with you or anyone else. Like you, I have strong opinions and I voice them. I do not call anyone names in the process. The only thing that cofirms is that you have little of substance to say.

And you say too much without saying anything! Are you kidding me? You are nothing more than a word merchant! I guess you must re-read your posts admiring yourself at what you type! One thing is Certain, the lawsuit will not be solved here on this forum. But when it is decided and you and your pals lose, I will feel very sorry for you!
regards,
737

 

[Long Time Gone]

I wonder what the Delta pilots plan to do for us in return?

See all of the crap you've started? Arrogance must be one of the courses now offered at Delta Connection Academy.

LTG

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

737,
He said his name is not Wil.
Your response: "whatever!"
You again refer to him as 'Wil'.
Just what is YOUR problem?
Do you know him personally?
Are you sure that is his name?
Or are you just going by what some other idiot has done in 'guessing'?
If you had referred to me by someone else's name I would suspect standard incompetence and ignore you. He on the other hand chose to continue to respond to your post. It shows class on his part to do that, and your obvious lack of in your continued use of the name in yours.

 

[N2264J]

Surplus1:
I have not attacked you or anyone else personally so don't do it to me. As for Dan Ford, he happens to be a friend of mine, you are an unknown and I would stack him up against you any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

For the one man trying to uproot the industry, do more damage than any scabs have over the past 50 years, that shows the kind of person you are!

Uproot the industry? Do more damage than scabs? Holy hyperbole Batman!

I'm confident that requiring the union to provide plaintiffs the duty of fair representation, which is ALPA's fiduciary responsibility anyway, is not going to uproot the industry or do more damage than any scabs in the last 50 years.

737Pylt, who doesn't know Wil or Surplus or Dan Ford let alone understand the issue, is about as shallow as piss on a flat rock.

 

[jarhead]

737,
He said his name is not Wil.
Your response: "whatever!"
You again refer to him as 'Wil'.
Just what is YOUR problem?
Do you know him personally?
Are you sure that is his name?
Or are you just going by what some other idiot has done in 'guessing'?
If you had referred to me by someone else's name I would suspect standard incompetence and ignore you. He on the other hand chose to continue to respond to your post. It shows class on his part to do that, and your obvious lack of in your continued use of the name in yours.

737 is just some sort of tool when it comes to his message. I happen to know Surplus1 personally, and his name is definatly not "Wil", "Will" "William", "Bill" or any other derivitave of the name William. He's not even remotely close to guessing the identity of Surplus1 and his actual given name. 737 going on his fishing expeditions to try to 'guess' the identity of another poster on these forums shows a bit of a character flaw in my view. There is a reason that all the users use a pen name on these forums. I wonder if 737 would like to reveal for himself, his given name?

Again, I know Surplus1, and his name ain't "Wil". Pesonally, I think it would have been better if Surplus1 had not challenged 737's mistaken belief that he thinks he knows the identity of Surplus1 That would be the ultimate identity cover.....to have a wrong identity assigned to him. Now there's some covert 'cover' to ones identity.

 

[jarhead]

If anything, that POS Dan Ford keeps sending his letters requesting that he and his rjdc losers want to be involved in any DALPA negotiations. Sorry pal, that isn't the way it works. DALPA negotiatiates with DAL management, and CMR ALPA negotiates with CMR management. Get it??
regards,
737

Just last March 3rd, 737, you started the first thread you ever did on this forum, by your own words. I have copied it and pasted it below. Tell me, (if you can avoid the hypocrisy) how is it that you can refer to Dan Ford as a "POS", and use the term "losers" in this excerpt from yesterday, and remain consistant with your admonition of others who resort to name calling? Is P.O.S. a genteel term in your world? Inquiring minds want to know.

Read your own words below, and then serve up a helping of crow for your dinner.

Name calling
I never thought I would start a thread, but here goes. What gives with all the name calling. I feel like I'm back in high school, and for me that was almost 20 years ago! The thread titled RFP Announced at DCI has more name calling in it than a Soprano's episode.
When I see things like:
The only thing I profoundly resent is those mo#$%^ers at CHQ getting more flying and aircraft instead of CMR
How many times have I seen you sh@ttaco morons screw up.
Yea, class act you got there...fu#king dipsh#ts!
In the words of a beaten brother, "can't we all just get along."
Don't you folks throwing mud realize you lose all cedibility when you start the insulting, and don't stick to the debate?!?!
737
out of work, out of money, and fed up!
oh yeah, if you're going to insult, I won't dignify it with an answer!

__________________
Plan for the worst, and hope for the best!

 

[FDJ2]

After negotiating with the Delta MEC, the Comair MEC has agreed to ask thier management to hire furloughed Delta pilots without having to give up their seniority at Delta. This is confirmed on the current Comair VARS message.

I wonder what the Delta pilots plan to do for us in return?

32 months into a cmr furlough, I think we would be as magnimous as the cmr mec and support the hiring of furloughed cmr pilots, without having them resign their cmr seniority number, particularly if our hiring is winding down and you have started recalls.

It's really wonderful of you guys to make this huge gesture now that our recalls have begun. I hope it didn't cost you any negotiating capitol. Oh, that's right, you're not in negotiations.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Arrogant? How does asking a question make me arrogant? I guess I'm arrogant for asking that one too! Looks like I started a lively discussion, and have learned a lot in the process.

And you would let us keep our seniority numbers at Comair if we went to Delta? Now, that is an offer I can sink my teeth into! Are you serious, or just kidding me?

Still no answers on all the lies I keep spreading.

 

[DAL737FO]

And you would let us keep our seniority numbers at Comair if we went to Delta? Now, that is an offer I can sink my teeth into! Are you serious, or just kidding me?

Actually, I had 20 people in my class, with a mix of regional, military, fractional and major pilots, two from AWA, and not one person was asked to resign a seniority number. Matter of fact the topic never even came up.

 

[737 Pylt]

737,
He said his name is not Wil.
Your response: "whatever!"
You again refer to him as 'Wil'.
Just what is YOUR problem?
Do you know him personally?
Are you sure that is his name?
Or are you just going by what some other idiot has done in 'guessing'?
If you had referred to me by someone else's name I would suspect standard incompetence and ignore you. He on the other hand chose to continue to respond to your post. It shows class on his part to do that, and your obvious lack of in your continued use of the name in yours.

Hey ATR driver:
This was an A and B conversation. I don't recall anyone asking or even caring about your input.
C-ya!

 

[737 Pylt]

737Pylt, who doesn't know Wil or Surplus or Dan Ford let alone understand the issue, is about as shallow as piss on a flat rock.

Well my little friend. You seem to know an awful lot about piss. Maybe its from all the d1cks you hang around!
Later dude!

 

[jarhead]

Hey ATR driver:
This was an A and B conversation. I don't recall anyone asking or even caring about your input.
C-ya!

So tell me Douglas, who is A and who is B?

 

[FlyComAirJets]

737, took you two days for those snappy responses?

I thought you had been so completely flammed that you had fled the board for good. Pity.

Bullying tactics -- failed. Name calling -- failed. Scatological references -- failed.

The real Douglas is much funnier.

 

[737 Pylt]

So tell me Douglas, who is A and who is B?

Its ok, you can just call me Doug!

 

[737 Pylt]

2 days because some of us work for a living!

I thought you had been so completely flammed that you had fled the board for good. Pity.

Bullying tactics -- failed. Name calling -- failed. Scatological references -- failed.

The real Douglas is much funnier.

Fly Comair jets:
Sorry it took so long to reply to the origional post. But unlike you, my life does not revolve around this forum. I sometimes go 7-10 days without viewing this forum, and will not take my laptop on the road to let the wonderful folks at the TSA have "their way" with it!
regards
737