Comair Firing

[Full of LUV]

What would have happened now?

When the Comair and ASA MECs got together to confer on a single list, it took a few minutes to agree on DOH then we spent the rest of the afternoon at the bar.

Unfortunately, we didn't belong to a national union that could force the issue.

Suppose ASA and Comair had merged lists back in the early 2000's, how would they have split it back apart 5 years later when Delta needed to sell ASA to raise cash?
Luv

 

[N2264J]

Suppose ASA and Comair had merged lists back in the early 2000's, how would they have split it back apart 5 years later when Delta needed to sell ASA to raise cash?

Why should a union fret about how the company is going to raise cash 5 years from now?

I suppose the company could sell the whole entity or not. If management decided to piece it out, ALPA has a fragmentation policy. But keeping the pilot groups separate for management's convenience and helping to promote whipsaw shouldn't be a union's charter unless, of course, you're ALPA.

The RJDC has been a voice in the wilderness on this for the last 10 years: When mainline scope is based on the exclusion of airframes instead of the inclusion of pilots, it's doomed to fail. Ask the junior Delta pilots how that Brand Scope is workin' out for 'em.

If you want to play around in hypothetical land, try to imagine the leverage the union would have if all brand flying was done by one seniority list. Oh wait, you don't have to. Southwest has one seniority list doing all the flying and industry leading rates. Coincidence?

 

[PuffDriver]

Why should a union fret about how the company is going to raise cash 5 years from now?

I suppose the company could sell the whole entity or not. If management decided to piece it out, ALPA has a fragmentation policy. But keeping the pilot groups separate for management's convenience and helping to promote whipsaw shouldn't be a union's charter unless, of course, you're ALPA.

The RJDC has been a voice in the wilderness on this for the last 10 years: When mainline scope is based on the exclusion of airframes instead of the inclusion of pilots, it's doomed to fail. Ask the junior Delta pilots how that Brand Scope is workin' out for 'em.

If you want to play around in hypothetical land, try to imagine the leverage the union would have if all brand flying was done by one seniority list. Oh wait, you don't have to. Southwest has one seniority list doing all the flying and industry leading rates. Coincidence?

Let's see where this misguided post fails the sniff test? Fragmentation within an airline is covered by each airline's CBA, not ALPA fragmentation policy.

How is Delta's scope working? Nobody on Delta's ls furloughed voluntarily. Cannot say that about Comair.

SWA DOES outsource flying.

You are not smart enough to be a union member. All you RJDC pikes can do is
:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[PuffDriver]

The fact that we have to pay for our own outside legal counsel to defend our interests when we merge with our "brothers".....speaks volumes as to what a scam this so-called "union" is....

Find out how many CMR pilots are in "bad standing" and organize together....It will be entertaining watching ALPA try to fire hundreds of their own members....They won't want the bad press and I bet something will be done....

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[N2264J]

Fragmentation within an airline is covered by each airline's CBA, not ALPA fragmentation policy.

Hidey ho, Poindexter!

Are you saying a mistake was made in naming Section 45 of ALPA's Administration Manual: Merger and Fragmentation Policy? Since it's an ALPA publication, I take your point.

SWA DOES outsource flying.

Southwest codesharing did not occur until after the SW pilots achieved their industry leading rates. Am I getting that wrong? If yes, my face is so red!

Nevertheless, when the Delta MEC threw the ASA and Comair pilots under the bus in 2000, management everywhere took notice and outsourcing became institutionalized as ALPA, "The Pilot's Union," signaled it wouldn't lift a finger to stop the whipsaw. Now, pilots throughout the industry are having to deal with it.

 

[Pilotbob3]

after paying 300 for a merger assesement in 2000. I am waiting for the 20 dollar check to arrive any day that is left over from the never used 300. uh huh!

 

[N2264J]

How is Delta's scope working? Nobody on Delta's ls furloughed voluntarily. Cannot say that about Comair.

Oh, I get it.

History in Poindexterland starts with the first Comair furlough and nevermind what could have been a displacement into the right seat of a Comair or ASA RJ for 1200 or so Delta pilots during the last downturn if the lists were merged in 2000.

Delta pilots hit the street while Comair and ASA together hired around 1200 new hires. Result: Delta pilots hate Comair pilots.

 

[PuffDriver]

Oh, I get it.

History in Poindexterland starts with the first Comair furlough and nevermind what could have been a displacement into the right seat of a Comair or ASA RJ for 1200 or so Delta pilots during the last downturn if the lists were merged in 2000.

Delta pilots hit the street while Comair and ASA together hired around 1200 new hires. Result: Delta pilots hate Comair pilots.

You skipped a few steps there, Poindexter. Let's fill in the blanks, shall we?

The RJDC is formed, claiming that the Delta MEC is "limiting" the careers of pilots. A PID is filed claiming sufficient operational integration between 3 carriers with completely different operations, missions, and aircraft. The PID is justifiably and correctly denied. The Delta MEC asks the Comair and ASA MECs about flow through and are vehemently turned away. C2K closes with unbelievable pay raises, QOL increases, etc--and more, larger jets for subsidiaries. Comair strikes, then caves with little to offer pre vs post strike. A little event called 911 hits. Delta furloughs, while Comair and ASA continue to hire--thus affirming that ALPA is limiting the careers of Comair and ASA pilots. Delta continues to furlough, illegally. Approximately 10 Delta furloughees elect to go the right seat at ASA. The rest do anything else--as it is more lucrative. The Delta MEC asks for the Comair MECs support in the hiring of Delta furloughees, and is refused. Delta loses the grievance process and a timetable is negotiated for the recall of furloughees. All furloughees are recalled much earlier than anticipated. The RJDC, caves and settles for just getting a memo. ALPA, the limiter of the Comair pilot career, continues to watch Comair hire. Delta hires massive amounts of ASA, Skywest, and Mesaba pilots. Delta hires a few pilots who have had strong ties to Delta and who are f/os. Gas spikes massively, putting the nail in the 50 seat coffin. 200 RJs to go away, most of which come from Comair--stemming furloughs. Merger with NWA airlines includes left seat protection at some subsidiaries in exchange for flow-up.

Delta pilots are not in need of right seats at Comair.

Delta pilot angst is with the RJDC, the true dividers in ALPA.

Back to your playpen, baby.

 

[Full of LUV]

Wow

You skipped a few steps there, Poindexter. Let's fill in the blanks, shall we?

The RJDC is formed, claiming that the Delta MEC is "limiting" the careers of pilots. A PID is filed claiming sufficient operational integration between 3 carriers with completely different operations, missions, and aircraft. The PID is justifiably and correctly denied. The Delta MEC asks the Comair and ASA MECs about flow through and are vehemently turned away. C2K closes with unbelievable pay raises, QOL increases, etc--and more, larger jets for subsidiaries. Comair strikes, then caves with little to offer pre vs post strike. A little event called 911 hits. Delta furloughs, while Comair and ASA continue to hire--thus affirming that ALPA is limiting the careers of Comair and ASA pilots. Delta continues to furlough, illegally. Approximately 10 Delta furloughees elect to go the right seat at ASA. The rest do anything else--as it is more lucrative. The Delta MEC asks for the Comair MECs support in the hiring of Delta furloughees, and is refused. Delta loses the grievance process and a timetable is negotiated for the recall of furloughees. All furloughees are recalled much earlier than anticipated. The RJDC, caves and settles for just getting a memo. ALPA, the limiter of the Comair pilot career, continues to watch Comair hire. Delta hires massive amounts of ASA, Skywest, and Mesaba pilots. Delta hires a few pilots who have had strong ties to Delta and who are f/os. Gas spikes massively, putting the nail in the 50 seat coffin. 200 RJs to go away, most of which come from Comair--stemming furloughs. Merger with NWA airlines includes left seat protection at some subsidiaries in exchange for flow-up.

Delta pilots are not in need of right seats at Comair.

Delta pilot angst is with the RJDC, the true dividers in ALPA.

Back to your playpen, baby.

Wow Puff, where were you during my college English Litt course, that was like war and peace in a paragraph.......

Only question I had wasn't the comair mec's opinion that the dal furloughees had to relinquish dal seniority to work there, unlike any other regional. When DALPA went to have the comair mec intervene they said too bad, so sad.
Luv

 

[PA44Jockey]

after paying 300 for a merger assesement in 2000. I am waiting for the 20 dollar check to arrive any day that is left over from the never used 300. uh huh!

Just curious, but wasn't that a different type of fund? I hear that wasn't a merger assesement, but something completely different.