Comair Concessions?

[Flash 7]

This is from a mgt. pilot I was talking to this morning.

Apparently the company wants a pay freeze for the next two scheduled increases june 03 & 04. In exchange there is talk of larger aircraft whatever the hell that means.

 

[Flash 7]

Sorry thats June 04 & 05.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Hmm

Let me get this straight they want a pay freeze so they can TALK about larger a/c. I think they first need to explain how they are going to get around scope to acquire those a/c.

 

[Flash 7]

I agree

 

[DDpaysoff]

I think the whipsawing of ASA has begun. We can't let that happen. You can bet they are dangling that carrot in front of them too. We need to support each other now!

 

[General Lee]

There won't be any "larger" aircraft without Dalpa's stamp of approval. So, with that said, I just want to say that, "I love you all."

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jarhead]

General Lee

I do not know all the possible outcomes in court, but one of them may well be, that the RJDC lawsuit "could" negate the restrictions you mention. Maybe not likely, but certainly a possiblity.

 

[General Lee]

Even if the RJDC pulls a rabit out of the hat and wins, the appeals would take many more years. Unlikey, though---and if Dalpa and ALPA thought they would lose, they probably would have settled by now. Leo signed the contract.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flash 7]

It's just now becoming a class action suit representing all Comair and ASA pilots.

98 percent of all class action suits are settled out of court.
Dalpa is not being sued, ALPA national is.
I wouldn't say that ALPA national would've settled by now. They just lost there appeal to send the matter to the national mediation board back on the 26th of August.

The Judge ruled in our favor that their is sufficient evidence to move forward to trial.

The Discovery phase will take place in October.

 

[Treme]

Back on topic please. There should be a seperate conference for RJDC arguments.

The thread was about the potential for concessions at Comair.

I personally believe that your management will not just pack up and go home after you say "No!".

Airline management usually takes such an opportunity to play THEIR hand which usually has a dramatic impact on junior pilots.

 

[General Lee]

Ok, sorry I moved back to the RJDC argument, and I will get off the subject, right after I say that the judge only agreed to one of your arguments and dropped the rest, and I think the ALPA attorneys are well aware of the situation.

Anyways.....I think we will all eventually be asked for concessions, and I think this also has something to do with the ASA contract negotiations. I also think that we at mainline will eventually give some pay back, but not the whole 31%. And, if we do give some back, others will also have to give. (That's the deal) I don't know if that will include the fine people at Comair, or not, they have their own contract and own negotiators--so it is up to them. Things seem to be getting better in this industry, and the longer we wait, the better things seem to get. But, that looming debt problem (brought on partly this year by $1.2 billion worth of RJs this year alone,--not used by mainline.....) will have to be looked at eventually.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jarhead]

......as well as the 5$ billion dollar unfunded pension liabilty for Mainline pilots! Comair pilots will not contribute to that.

 

[General Lee]

Jarhead,

As I keep telling people, the pension shortfall is a FUNCTION OF THE STOCK MARKET. When stocks go up, as they have been lately, the pension shortfall gets smaller. You are not paying for mainline's pensions.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jarhead]

General........what assurance do you have that the stock will ever go up enough to cover that huge debt. Braniff went under too, ya know. I think the Comair group wants the Delta mainline group to cover their own pension short fall. How much money are mainline plots contributing to Comair pension funds. (bzzzzt....easy answer. Zero, cause Comair pilots do not have an unfunded pension plan).

 

[General Lee]

Jarhead,

You're right, I don't know if the stock will ever go up, but it has jumped 43% in the last couple of months, and things appear to be getting better, so I think it will eventually be covered. How about your pilots paying for the debt incurred by the $1.2 billion worth of RJs being bought for YOU (not us) this year alone? A lot of our total debt is due to your growth also---don't forget that. We suggested that they stop paying for capital expenditures this year---like the new BOS terminal (used by both of us---$1 billion), the new JFK terminal (again, used by both of us probably--another $1 billion), and your RJs. We aren't getting any of those RJs purchased this year---none. Would you like to help pay for your expansion? I didn't think so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WorldSeries]

Until regional airline pilot salaries are better than you can get a Mcdonalds or Walmart without any education or training, I will vote NO for any type of concession. I would rather be furloughed again. If the airliners cant afford to operate with out concession then they do what they have to, furlough ,give away flying, cut back flying and when they can afford to pay us some thing decent at the regional level then we will come back.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Here's the approach to take:

Don't say no, they never do..

Say "maybe, we'll, see, we'll take that under advisement."

Management never says no - they just say maybe until you go looking for a wall to bang your head against.

Give 'em a taste of their own, saying assuring, calming things like: "We value our management and want them to have the best contract possible." Drag it out two years after the amendable date, too.

[/sarcasm]


Above all, STAY in the driver's seat - good luck,and we're all counting on you.

 

[WorldSeries]

i like 100LL idea..we should say maybe we will look at it and then delay and delay and delay

 

[jarhead]

GeneralLee

Those RJ's are making money for Delta, with the current CMR contract. Can you say the same for the mainline fleet?

 

[General Lee]

Jarhead,

You really didn't answer my question: would you help pay the debt incurred by the $1.3 billion worth of RJs bought this year alone? (For your use only)

As far as your airplanes only making money, I think that is wrong. We had a great Summer at Mainline also, and our INTL flights were packed. The problem we are having is the debt---not the size of aircraft. We are also bringing back some 737-200s from the desert, which also proves my point. The problem is not only caused by us, and your helpful RJs are actually more inefficient when it comes to the CASM factor, and that is also why Fred Reid is looking at larger planes, like 100 seaters. The argument that Comair/ASA is saving the day is done. This Summer proved that mainline jets also contributed to the bottomline. The debt problem, though, now must be shared by all of us, especially if your growth contributes to it.

Bye Bye--General Lee