Comair and Expressjet Pilots Hate RAH?

[Flex81]

Question for all of you Comair and Expressjet guys and gals. You guys are getting screwed over by Delta and Continental respectively. Are you guys also mad at RAH for taking over some of your routes? If so, are you bitter toward the RAH pilots. Would you allow a RAH pilot on your jumpseat?

 

[Sir Innocenti]

Someones bored......RAH pilots didnt TAKE the flying......Management bid for it and DL and CO AWARDED it to them.....This is the mentality that has to stop....regional pilots dont have a say in who we fly for...you should know that much!

 

[Flex81]

Question for all of you Comair and Expressjet guys and gals. You guys are getting screwed over by Delta and Continental respectively. Are you guys also mad at RAH for taking over some of your routes? If so, are you bitter toward the RAH pilots. Would you allow a RAH pilot on your jumpseat?

Yes Mr. Innocneti...I reposted my original statement again for you since you obviously cannot read. I said "you guys are getting screwed over by Delta and Continental". Maybe "taking your flying" is the wrong use of words, but the fact is RAH is flying routes that Comair used to fly. My question was simple...are comair and expressjet pilots bitter toward RAH pilots? I personally don't think they should be. You are correct in saying that management bidds on the flying and the pilots have nothing to do with it. One thing is certain... If you have a bunch of pilots that hate you, your life will be miserable.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Am I particularly fond of the way that their company survives by undercutting and potentially taking jobs away from other pilots? Nope. Am I going to be a jackass about it? Nope.

 

[The Drizzle]

Undercutting implies an overt act, our current contract was a hard fought battle for improvement that resulted in a 100% increase in our quality of life, secured scope, and raised all pay. The CHQ contract was for CHQ pilots lives only, not to come searching out for your jobs to steal. Even in 2003, not one pilot would have guessed that RAH would become what it has in the last 3 years. The lot of you who call us all whores have no idea, truely, what you are talking about when it comes to who we, the RAH pilots are.

SkyBoy, do we all come here and wipe the news in your faces? No, the very select few, for whatever reason seem to gloat. I'm also counting on you being intelligent enough to sort out the BS posters from the others. They call them 5%ers for a reason.

 

[pilotmyf]

Question for all of you Comair and Expressjet guys and gals. You guys are getting screwed over by Delta and Continental respectively. Are you guys also mad at RAH for taking over some of your routes? If so, are you bitter toward the RAH pilots. Would you allow a RAH pilot on your jumpseat?

FOs don't have the power to deny jumpseaters and on the same tolken, isn't XJT bidding for Midwest Connect flying???????????? Deal with it d0uchebag!

 

[bvt1151]

We're pissed because they have this "well its out of our control" attitude when it most certainly is not. By accepting aircraft flow by other companies, they are guilty by negligence and are very much replacing higher paid pilots. They like to say there's nothing they can do, but lets face it; Its an excuse and there's no real reason for them to change. They're getting everything they want, even if it is at the expense of others. At least they can deny, deny, deny.

In 5 years, when their flying is being farmed out to the lowest bidder, they'll be saying the same thing.

 

[The Drizzle]

We're pissed because they have this "well its out of our control" attitude when it most certainly is not. By accepting aircraft flow by other companies, they are guilty by negligence and are very much replacing higher paid pilots. They like to say there's nothing they can do, but lets face it; Its an excuse and there's no real reason for them to change. They're getting everything they want, even if it is at the expense of others. At least they can deny, deny, deny.

In 5 years, when their flying is being farmed out to the lowest bidder, they'll be saying the same thing.

and how, pray tell, do we not accept aircraft? sounds like illegal job action to me, but you seem smart, tell us.

 

[sleddriver77]

We're pissed because they have this "well its out of our control" attitude when it most certainly is not. By accepting aircraft flow by other companies, they are guilty by negligence and are very much replacing higher paid pilots. They like to say there's nothing they can do, but lets face it; Its an excuse and there's no real reason for them to change.

Hey, you're right! Gawdammit, I don't think I'll go to work tomorrow; because I resent the fact that the company I work for is undercutting other companies. Yep, such a selfless act for the "greater good of the industry" is SURE to get me the job I'll need at XJT or somewhere when RAH, uh, FIRES me for taking a stand!! Great line of thinking there, genius. The stuff the company negotiates is totally out of the pilots' control.

If CAL management decided the 737 was a "regional jet" and decided to get rid of the type at mainline, I betcha the XJT guys wouldn't have a problem flying them, either. Likewise, If scope breaks at CAL and XJT gets 170's, I'd bet my next year's salary XJT wouldn't have ANY problem filling the upgrade classes. (I'm sure it's different when it's YOU.)

 

[bvt1151]

And there we have it...

They sure get defensive, though. Don't they?

 

[sleddriver77]

And there we have it...

They sure get defensive, though. Don't they?

Uh, no sir.

Not "defensive," so much as "realistic."

Really, what do you expect us to do about it?

 

[Nindiri]

Well, why don't you answer their question?

 

[StarChecker]

Well, why don't you answer their question?

There was a question in there?

I just heard bitter, ignorant bull$hit.

Get educated...get informed...then you're entitled to an opinion. Until then....STFU.

 

[bvt1151]

Why was there no statement put out by Teamsters at least condeming the practice of replacing 690 XJT pilots with 690 lower paid Chautauqua new hire pilots?

 

[StarChecker]

Why was there no statement put out by Teamsters at least condeming the practice of replacing 690 XJT pilots with 690 lower paid Chautauqua new hire pilots?

It's coming out soon....right after ALPA's statement condeming the replacement of mainline routes by Comair and CoEx RJ's at lower wages...

 

[sleddriver77]

There was a question in there?

I just heard bitter, ignorant bull$hit.

Agreed, I just heard Pot-Stirring, posed in the form of a stupid question.
I suspect in addition to "hating" RAH, ComAir and Xjet pilot "hate"... Themselves!! After all, aren't ALL regionals really just taking (gasp) MAINLINE flying?? I mean, how many of us went to flight school intending to eventually work for a regional?
Good Lord, how do you Comair and Xjet guys LIVE with yourselves knowing that if you just quit going to work, all that flying would go back to mainline, and we'd all be driving around in 737's? Not a chance they'd just... oh, I don't know... REPLACE you with other pilots if you tried to do something about it, right? What is it the kids say nowadays? "Don't hate the Playa, hate the Game?"

Stir On!!

 

[CaptainChris77]

Why do you guys even give this jackass the time of day??? This site bothers me because most of you buy into these bullsh*t conversations about NOTHING.

 

[172driver]

It's coming out soon....right after ALPA's statement condeming the replacement of mainline routes by Comair and CoEx RJ's at lower wages...

The analogy is flawed. Comair and XJet are not flying the same equipment/seat range as DL and CO for less money, and therein lies the difference. Both pilot groups fought for, and won, the top contracts in their sector of the industry. Yes, there is some replacement of mainline flying, but that's economics at work. It's a little different than if we started flying 737's for $35/hr in order to take their flying, which is basically what has happened at CHQ and Mesa, although I don't think that was the intent of those pilots at the time.

As far as my feelings about the situation, in the last round of contract signings, none of us had any idea how out of hand the whipsaw situation was going to get. Thus, there was no intent to accept a certain wage in order to compete for/take away flying. So...I have no ill will toward pilots at CHQ/Mesa, even though guys with my seniority there are certainly enjoying many benefits from growth that could well have been at Comair, if not for their lower cost structure.

However, the next round of contract negotiations will tell a lot. We all know the game now and there is no excuse for accepting a subpar contract, especially for those two extremely profitable companies. If it happens again, I will indeed have some anger for their pilots.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Where is RAH finding FO's to supplement their growth?

 

[Popeye0537]

The analogy is flawed. Comair and XJet are not flying the same equipment/seat range as DL and CO for less money, and therein lies the difference. Both pilot groups fought for, and won, the top contracts in their sector of the industry. Yes, there is some replacement of mainline flying, but that's economics at work. It's a little different than if we started flying 737's for $35/hr in order to take their flying, which is basically what has happened at CHQ and Mesa, although I don't think that was the intent of those pilots at the time.

As far as my feelings about the situation, in the last round of contract signings, none of us had any idea how out of hand the whipsaw situation was going to get. Thus, there was no intent to accept a certain wage in order to compete for/take away flying. So...I have no ill will toward pilots at CHQ/Mesa, even though guys with my seniority there are certainly enjoying many benefits from growth that could well have been at Comair, if not for their lower cost structure.

However, the next round of contract negotiations will tell a lot. We all know the game now and there is no excuse for accepting a subpar contract, especially for those two extremely profitable companies. If it happens again, I will indeed have some anger for their pilots.

Some replacement of mainline flying??? Are you nuts. Have you looked at the routes RJ's now fly?? Its all OLD mainline routes. I have no ill will towards any regional out there either, but if you think we are any Lower than your precious company you need to take a good look in the mirror. Comair sold themselves for more growth but it never came true for them. Express will still keep the 69 A/C so what are they gonna be pissed about? You guys at Comair have already "SET" the bar by accepting lower wages. The only one you should be angry with sir is yourself.

 

[I.P. Freley]

The analogy is flawed. Comair and XJet are not flying the same equipment/seat range as DL and CO for less money, and therein lies the difference.

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*

 

[I.P. Freley]

Where is RAH finding FO's to supplement their growth?

The same place everyone else does, I imagine. People send in resumes, some get interviewed, some get hired. Seems pretty simple.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

our current contract was a hard fought battle for improvement that resulted in a 100% increase in our quality of life, secured scope, and raised all pay.

If you say so.

.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*

Geezus it amazes me how some of you folks are so stuck on thinking that hard pay rates alone are all that determines the value of a contract. Do you not realize that even a few work rule differences from one company to the other can make a substantial difference not only in employee QOL but also in labor costs? I'm willing to bet that the cost of pilot vacations at XJT is substantially higher than at RAH, as we have one of the best vacation policies in the industry. How much more money do you think our company spends every year paying us pilots 100% block or better on all deadheads? These are just two examples.

 

[Capt.PoopyPants]

Do you not realize that even a few work rule differences from one company to the other can make a substantial difference?

What, Do you mean things like no hot reserve, no junior manning and Christmas bonuses?

 

[goodpilotithink]

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*[/quot

CHAS 70 seat crew cost are less than our 50 seat crew cost
You left that part out.

 

[ERJDRVR]

Geezus it amazes me how some of you folks are so stuck on thinking that hard pay rates alone are all that determines the value of a contract. Do you not realize that even a few work rule differences from one company to the other can make a substantial difference not only in QOL but also in labor costs? I'm willing to bet that the cost of pilot vacations at XJT is substantially higher than at RAH, as we have one of the best vacation policies in the industry. How much more money do you think our company spends every year paying us pilots 100% block or better on all deadheads? These are just two examples.

How is that JR manning going for you??

 

[OldManPilot]

Why was there no statement put out by Teamsters at least condeming the practice of replacing 690 XJT pilots with 690 lower paid Chautauqua new hire pilots?

How is CHQ replacing 690 XJT pilots????? I thought you found a home for those 69 aircraft and that is why you are keeping them?????

 

[SkyBoy1981]

How is that JR manning going for you??

I have never had scheduling even attempt to junior man me. Sometimes I wish they would though as the junior man pay would be nice.

 

[samballs]

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*

Your an idiot if scum bags like you weren't willing to fly for those crap rates we would have never had to worry about freezes and such. We have work rules, you have some, we have pride, you guys have yourselves to make each other feel like you do. Theres a reason everyone hates you guys, you guys remind me of the sh*t I stepped in yesterday. I dont like mesa for their contract and such but for the most part the guys there are good guys and they know their at a sh*t company. You guys on the other hand think you have a great job make good money, yes your company is doing good but your not, you make poor wages and get abused on a daily basis, and this shows in your attitudes and appearances today in concourse A I watched a captain from RP get two subs from Quiznos then proceed to sit down at gate A6 untuck his shirt and eat not one but both of them, well keep eating piggy cause thats all you have to live for working at RP.. And finally can guys please stop sounding so immature on the radios and especially on atlanta radio, learn to make decisions and not have your dispatchers tell you what to do. dissapear RP and please take all you pilots with you.