College Flight Aviation or not?

[pilotyip]

What about the other 113 companies?

Air Inc, I know your favorite organization, lists 118 companies currently recruiting, on that list are maybe five companies that make the degree a showstopper. What about the other 113 companiesthat do not care about a degree?

 

[Clyde]

Air Inc, I know your favorite organization, lists 118 companies currently recruiting, on that list are maybe five companies that make the degree a showstopper. What about the other 113 companiesthat do not care about a degree?

Those other 113 are probably not worth a $&*!@ to work for anyway. Low pay, high work hours, little or no benefits, and if you're lucky, you might get to wear a pager 24 hours a day. The companies that don't care about a degree typically are the ones that nobody wants go to work for in the first place. In other words, they don't have a choice and cannot be picky when it comes to hiring.

The companies that someone should be aiming for are the majors, and only a few are hiring at the moment. Now, one or two may advertise that a degree isn't necessary in their hiring minimums, but that doesen't gurantee an interview or a subsequent job offer. There are few very good jobs up for grabs out there, and more than enough people applying for them.

BTW, Air Inc and Kit Darby should be taken as seriously as Mad Magazine and Alfred E. Newman.

 

[wmudriver]

This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We just hired a 20 year old pilot, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is starting as a DA-20 F/O at 33K, he will be a DA-20 Capt the day he turns 23, he feels he will have his degree completed by the time he is 25 or 26 years old. At that time he should have 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He will have his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management, and no debt. He will be interviewing with the 4 or 5 year traditional college graduate for his first airline job, The traditional 4 yr degree guy who has TT 1200 350 MEL 15 Turbine. Who is the more competitive?

Who cares....Whatever happenend to going to college, making buddies, drinking beer and getting laid?

 

[pilotyip]

Hey Clyde

Here is the picture; patterns tend to repeat themselves. Any year ending in an 8 is a great year to get a job. In 1968, 1978, 1988, and 1998, there was lots of movements, guys leave jobs at AirTran and SWA for the "Dream Jobs" at UAL, DAL and USAirways. Years ending in 3 are terrible years for hiring 1973, 1983, 1993, 2003. Therefore, the next hiring boom will be in full swing by 2008. Therefore never take a new job in a year ending in 9. Six months before 2008 is 2007 June and that is how you pick that date. Majors may not be hiring alot, but there will be plenty of jobs. Would you care to make a public wager that is hiring in 2008 is at least 200% better than it is this year.

 

[pilotyip]

Hey Clyde again

"Those other 113 are probably not worth a $&*!@ to work for anyway. Low pay, high work hours, little or no benefits, and if you're lucky, you might get to wear a pager 24 hours a day. The companies that don't care about a degree typically are the ones that nobody wants go to work for in the first place. In other words, they don't have a choice and cannot be picky when it comes to hiring" It happens to include Jetblue, Spirit, all of the "Regionals" and Net jets. No pagers there, good equip, scheduled flying.
Your brush of the 113 other companies is a little to broad for your conclusion

 

[pilotyip]

Now WMUdriver

Bobby would not like you to say going to college is fun, because if you went to Harvard or Yale you have to work real hard.

 

[bobbysamd]

College

Bobby would not like you to say going to college is fun, because if you went to Harvard or Yale you have to work real hard.

. . . . or Michigan State, Yip, or Colorado State University, N.Y.U., Chadron State, or East Armpit Normal. Reread my comments above. I did acknowledge how there are some kids who take off four years, hang at the frats, and live for Greek Weekend - and I did say those individuals are in the minority and that most college students really try to learn and get an education.

 

[bobbysamd]

113 companies

Those other 113 are probably not worth a $&*!@ to work for anyway. Low pay, high work hours, little or no benefits, and if you're lucky, you might get to wear a pager 24 hours a day. The companies that don't care about a degree typically are the ones that nobody wants go to work for in the first place. In other words, they don't have a choice and cannot be picky when it comes to hiring.

Moreover, by not having competitive credentials, i.e., the degree, you are limiting yourself to these 113 companies. When you think about it, 113 companies aren't very many. Good companies or not, considering the tremendous competition for jobs, why give yourself only 113 choices?

Once more, the benefit of being educated aside, it's all about having choices, and as many choices as possible. Earn the degree and you can apply to these 113 companies, and every other company.

BTW, Air Inc and Kit Darby should be taken as seriously as Mad Magazine and Alfred E. Newman.

How dare you slam Mad Magazine! Kit Darby couldn't carry Al Feldstein's typewriter. Mad was one of my favorite reads through junior high. Especially Don Martin and Spy v. Spy. Al Jaffee. The satires were matchless. Mad is a classic; even my wife used to stock it in her law school library. But your point about Kit, Air, Inc., and, of course, FAPA, is very well taken.

 

[Clyde]

Here is the picture; patterns tend to repeat themselves. Any year ending in an 8 is a great year to get a job. In 1968, 1978, 1988, and 1998, there was lots of movements, guys leave jobs at AirTran and SWA for the "Dream Jobs" at UAL, DAL and USAirways. Years ending in 3 are terrible years for hiring 1973, 1983, 1993, 2003. Therefore, the next hiring boom will be in full swing by 2008. Therefore never take a new job in a year ending in 9. Six months before 2008 is 2007 June and that is how you pick that date. Majors may not be hiring alot, but there will be plenty of jobs. Would you care to make a public wager that is hiring in 2008 is at least 200% better than it is this year.

Show me the money. This is the worst shape the industry has been in since its conception. Your computation of when the industry will beging hiring is no different than looking at the newspaper horoscopes for it.

The industry is going through a huge transformation right now. In years past, the regionals acted like feeders to the mainline carriers. The airplanes were smaller, routes more restrictive, and the companies very small.

Fast forward to today, and the smaller commuters are now large regionals. Instead of feeding traffic to the mainlines, they are being assigned a lot of routes that were once flown by mainline aircraft.

The economy today is a lot different than it was in the past. Sure we are in an economic recovery, but it is not like recoveries of past. In the past, the airlines sweated out a recession, and then they went back to business as usual when it was over. i.e., business practices such as outrageous pricing.

Can't do that anymore. Business practices have changed and the airlines of the present are having a hard time adapting.

We lost Eastern, Pan Am, and Braniff a while ago. Now, it looks like we may lose United and US Airways. When the previous three were lost, other majors picked up the slack. Now, it is being picked up by smaller carriers who are operating with much lower labor costs. i.e., pilots are paid very little.

So, there may be a hiring boom. But, do you consider making a career at a company where one will make a third of what a major pilot would have made 10 years earlier a success? How about retirements at these companies? Will it be there also?

I'll take your wager. Heck, double it and I'll still take you on. And, because I'm a nice guy, I won't collect from you when 2008 comes and goes without any hiring boom. Oh, by the way, one more thing. The majors have set a record for the most people furloughed. In the past, people were furloughed and brought back, and usually under the same or better pay and working conditions. Don't think we are going to see that.

 

[pilotyip]

Wrong again Clyde

I think the 79-83 downturn was worse than this one because I lost my job then. I had buddies in my reserve unit who were going through thier second layoff after being hired in 1973 just prior Oct war turndown. There are at least twice as many flying jobs avaialble today than there was in 1984. Anyone one have a comment?

 

[pilot_guy]

college can't buy you a seat...

College won't get you a job any moreso that PFT...let's get real. It's all about who ya know. If you network, kiss a$$, etc, you stand a better chance than the guy sending out resumes and building time in the meantime whether or not he has a degree.

It's a roll of the dice, always has been, only now it's more noticeable. The airlines learned that "Hey, these guys will do it for $hit. How much do you think we can get away with?" and have adjusted accordingly. The days of the big money are gone boys; the writing is on the wall. I think you'll be lucky to end up skipper on a 717 or 737 and making 80-100k. I'm not talking about you guys that are early 30s and older...you are in the system now. I'm talking about all us "young" guys (18-25) who haven't gotten there yet.

Someone posted earlier that it used to go back to business as usual after a recession. Yep, that's right. Prices were high, and mgmt. got fat, and so did the pilots. Now, with LCC and the regionals taking the lion's share of the work load, and consumers demanding cheaper flights, there's not enough dough for everyone to get fat, so mgmt. and the fat cats aren't gonna share.

So, where does this leave the new wonderkids? Well, they're all gonna get the d!ck from the boardroom. That's inevitable because there are too many whores that will fly for squat. Question is, how far will they take it before they say "ouch, stop that"?

 

[pilotyip]

$100k?

And what is wrong with $100K/yr and Captain's job on a neat airplane? Never made that in my life, would be thrilled to see it.

 

[standaman]

And what is wrong with $100K/yr and Captain's job on a neat airplane? Never made that in my life, would be thrilled to see it.

Amen brother. I see no problem with this. My dad has been working for close to 30 years now has a masters degree and everything. He has to work alot harder for 80K a year than any captain in a 717 ever has.

 

[Luchini]

College won't get you a job any moreso that PFT...let's get real. It's all about who ya know. If you network, kiss a$$, etc, you stand a better chance than the guy sending out resumes and building time in the meantime whether or not he has a degree.
QUOTE]

If this is true it would be better to get a degree in aviation since it surrounds you with aviation people to network with.

 

[Tycer]

Go to Purdue, major in something other than Aviation, but still take some aviation classes. Join the Greek system and have the time of your life! You will be able to still have a "aviation college" on your resume and you will have a ball. Go my route and become a waiter at the KKG house and then really have some fun! Good Luck!