Colgan udpates

[Kaman]

most people with any sense don't want to deal with our mediocre training dept. either as it pertains to the Q. The "culling" that has been going on is a function and reflection upon the airline and it's training dept. and NOT always the individual. You show me a high rate of attrition in a 121 environment and I will show you a training/flight stds. dept. that is ill-staffed, ill-led and doesn't have the right people in the right position. Failed training, failed checkrides, failed line checks, excessive TPs...That is costly to the bottom-line. It is all politics at this company. Unfortunately, just like everywhere else.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

Kaman...uhhh thanks for the rant, makes me think your training experience wasnt so great.
Colgan guys and gals...how do the work the training part of this..rooms ..pay ..when and how much..ASKED by my wife of course...lol

 

[Kaman]

Actually, the training on SAAB and BE-1900 was very good and the company had a very low attrition rate on the Beech especially and pilots typically performed very well when they transitioned to the SAAB from the Beech. Slightly higher number on the SAAB, but well within what you would consider normal.
The Q on the other hand has been a different story completely and suffers from the fact that it was rushed into service, they didn't go out and hire people that were subject matter experts on the airplane. Just my opnion.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

Kaman, Sounds like you enjoyed the saab...I have a friend at Horizon and he loooooves the q..hopefully they will build the required knowledge quickly and correctly.

 

[Kaman]

Kaman...uhhh thanks for the rant, makes me think your training experience wasnt so great.
Colgan guys and gals...how do the work the training part of this..rooms ..pay ..when and how much..ASKED by my wife of course...lol

You will be paid a daily rate of per diem (It was $50.00/day) while you are in training until you are finished with I.O.E. and your room is paid for by the company (double occupancy). You should see the first check on either the 5th or the 20th of the month depending upon when you began training and filled out your W-2. Uniforms are taken out of your paycheck on a monthly basis and I think you can spread that out over 12 months. Good luck, and if you have any questions on the sim let me know...

 

[PC12Cowboy]

Kaman any and all info would be appreciated its been a year almost since I flew the Metroliner and am looking forward to flying again. trying to stay current..but its hard with no money. if you want you can PM the info ..Thanks in advance

 

[Brae123]

most people with any sense don't want to deal with our mediocre training dept. either as it pertains to the Q. The "culling" that has been going on is a function and reflection upon the airline and it's training dept. and NOT always the individual. You show me a high rate of attrition in a 121 environment and I will show you a training/flight stds. dept. that is ill-staffed, ill-led and doesn't have the right people in the right position. Failed training, failed checkrides, failed line checks, excessive TPs...That is costly to the bottom-line. It is all politics at this company. Unfortunately, just like everywhere else.

Scott, what have you done to make the training department a better place? Last time I checked, you were not contributing to the "mediocre" training department. I am sure your lack of involvement must be what is making this a "mediocre" department. There are challenges in the training department but I know you have not contributed to making this place better.

I am also curious about your experience with the Q training department since you are not rated on the Q. Your time here has only been on the Saab and Beech. Remember, some of the most senior instructors, check airman, and APDs in the Q training department are some of the fellow pilots that you flew with on the Beech and Saab. Before you give out a critique on the department, you might want some actual experience in that department.

 

[Kaman]

.....

 

[IslandDriver]

Looks like Kman was really just reporting statistics on the success rate of folks going through the training. That is what speaks for itself. A small percentage of people will not make it through a training cycle. But it seems as though the number of failures in the sim or on the line is higher than what it was in the 1900 or the 340.

If a guy fails a ride on the line or in the sim it is not only a failure for the person taking the ride but should be looked upon as a failure for the person reccomending them for the ride. sure sometimes mistakes happen but that should be an exception not a rule.

I know if i had the required time for a new job and was posed with waiting for the training or hopefully moving on to the majors...i would just stay senior on the SAAB and wait till the training got better.

just my opinion.

 

[Kaman]

Agreed, and for some reason this person decided to take this as some kind of personal attack on members of the training dept. Which it was NOT. I was simply stating the facts, and my opinion.
In the military, it was a reflection on the command if we consistently exceeded the programmed attrition rate. For budgeting and personnel management purposes it was always factored into the amount of personnel that were budgeted as throughput in the schoolhouse. The airlines also operate on a similar basis, but the amount of attrition is designed to be very, very small. It is a cost of business to operate a training department at an airline and your product out the door of the schoolhouse effects the safety of the operation, and ultimately the operational success of the airline.
The Q program is suffering from the same problems that Colgan had when they first introduced the SAAB 340. They went from a small 1900 operation to the SAAB, and it is my understanding that they had close to a 35% overall failure rate on the airplane. As a manager and an FAA inspector, those kinds of numbers would and should get their attention. It is the same with a CFI that can't get better than an 80% pass-rate on pilot applicants.
The Q program was accelerated into operation at a rate that was honestly faster than what the airline was honestly ready to handle. Airplanes don't make money unless they are in the air generating revenue and it was imperative to get the Q into revenue service as fast as possible. There were teething problems...That isn't disputable, and not unusual either for a new type of airplane with so many "firsts" for Colgan. Perhaps this could have been mitigated by "head-hunting" subject-matter experts from another current operator, purchasing or leasing state-of-the-art training aids (CAE Cockpit Procedures Trainers, FMS trainers, etc...). We just didn't do it...I say WE, because at the time the Q was announced and until February of 2008 I was working in the training dept. as a ground/sim instructor and line check airman. I wasn't involved directly with the Q, but I was well aware of what was planned for the initial cadre.
As of today, the company is still struggling to stay ahead of our training needs. This isn't their fault, it's a function of the many changes going on at the airline. This is a dynamic time when we REALLY have to re-emphasize safety, standardization and procedures. We are in a historically dangerous time for an airline; rapid growth, A LOT of new-hires arriving on the property, new deliveries of airplanes, new FOM and an imminent release of a new CFM on the SAAB, Contract negotiations and a merger (actually a consolidation, if you read between the lines).
So, YES I think we have a LONG way to go in improving our training. There are some steps being taken, but I see them as being mostly reactionary, and some are being watered down or not being managed properly from a curriculum review/update process. We simply don't have enough people, and we REALLY need a Human Factors manager that can oversee the CRM/TEM program.
And, lastly...Someone using my name was pretty low.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[sqwkvfr]

*******, what have you done to make the training department a better place? Last time I checked, you were not contributing to the "mediocre" training department. I am sure your lack of involvement must be what is making this a "mediocre" department. There are challenges in the training department but I know you have not contributed to making this place better.

I am also curious about your experience with the Q training department since you are not rated on the Q. Your time here has only been on the Saab and Beech. Remember, some of the most senior instructors, check airman, and APDs in the Q training department are some of the fellow pilots that you flew with on the Beech and Saab. Before you give out a critique on the department, you might want some actual experience in that department.

Wow. If this isn't the biggest hanging floater that I've ever seen on flightinfo, I don't know what was.

I don't have the balls to swing at it.....but I'm sure someone here does.