Colgan 3407 NTSB Animation

[Hawker800]

Training. We do a pretty good job teaching folks how to read glass and push buttons on an FMS. Perhaps teaching basic skills in an aircraft heavier than a C172 might be in order. I mean going up in the aircraft and let the pusher do its thing, do a steep turn, do single engine stuff. The feel is different. After all the simulator, even though a fine training machine, only sits in a room enclosed by four walls. It can only simulate. It isn't the real thing. Just my two cents worth.

 

[OurMoney1]

The flaps up is what really confuses me, with no crew co-ordination either. She didn't even have increasing trends. The situation goes from bad to deadly with the throw of a lever, sad.

I can't help thinking about the families that are living through this hell.

I will always wonder what her picture was that she thought that would help their situation.

 

[BFE]

Well thank god you don't work for the NTSB. Even the NTSB has not released its final report. These are just public hearings, and the final report will come out much later. You, being an emo idiot, don't question the "why" of the overall picture. You said "inexperience" and "lack of attention." Inexperience? Maybe, but then again, how much time did YOU have when you were hired at the Airlink? ANd for "lack of attention"..... WHAT WERE THE CAUSES??? That is what the NTSB will investigate!

How about:
1. Grueling scheduling practices at Colgan
2. Long, tiring day
3. That lond tiring day exacerbated by commuting in.
4. Tiredness that night due to the long day
5. FATIGUE

These are the main issues! So quit crucifying the crew. I don't blame them, it is far to easy to blame the dead. How about blaming the system that failed on them? How about blaming Colgan's sub-standard training program? How about addressing industry wide fatigue and scheduling/rest issues?

Seven, you're stupid if you can't think the whole situation through, as I just described above.

You obviously have no time in a large turbo prop aircraft. At 22:16:10 the condition levers (props) are placed (not called for) to max. This is largest drag on the aircraft, it's like putting on the brakes. Within 17 seconds the aircraft looses 40 knots of airspeed and stalls simply because the power was left as flight idle. This is one of the BASIC flying skills in turbo prop flying.

Quit crucifying the crew? How about stop making excuses for them.

 

[LJ45]

if you watch the animation... I don't think the pusher had anything to do with it, he yanked back on the controls when the sticker shaker went off. The pusher went off as the aircraft was already pitched way up.

absolutely pathetic for both pilots !!!!

 

[flynryan15]

The flaps up is what really confuses me, with no crew co-ordination either. She didn't even have increasing trends. The situation goes from bad to deadly with the throw of a lever, sad.

I can't help thinking about the families that are living through this hell.

I will always wonder what her picture was that she thought that would help their situation.

I am not condoning moving the flaps, but when she did it the airplane was rolling right through 90 degrees. The aircraft then came back to wing level momentarily. From that moment on if the ailerons were not used just rudder and max power applied while maintaining attitude the result would have been a lot different.

Yes her response to the flaps 15 and the shaker was UHHH. However if you notice right before that she had a hand off to the tower. It appears her head was down for a second as he made his calls she looked up as she selected the flaps and all hell started to break loose.

I wonder if the captains I used to fly with before my furlough that made fun of me for saying speed checks before I moved the flap or gear handle would laugh at me now?

 

[Lampshade]

Putting the flaps to zero at 93 kts was the nail in the coffin.

 

[30West]

I would think the training issue is that in a very short time period you had 2 crews stall and airplane! Something is getting missed here is this keeps happening!

The BTV airplane didn't stall.....where did you get 2 from?

 

[Sig]

I am not condoning moving the flaps, but when she did it the airplane was rolling right through 90 degrees. The aircraft then came back to wing level momentarily. From that moment on if the ailerons were not used just rudder and max power applied while maintaining attitude the result would have been a lot different.

Ailerons? Missed it by THAT MUCH, but you're on to something.

Watch the plane and the yoke- serious food for thought about what happens to a wing when a pair of barn doors rotate up from the top at an unimaginably slow speed and off the chart AOA. As the yoke see-saws, they become "what's left of the lift" dumpers vice roll spoilers.

An eye opener, for sure.

 

[Flyer1015]

Putting the flaps to zero at 93 kts was the nail in the coffin.

The nail in the coffin was already before this point.

 

[Flyer1015]

They weren't at 1,000 AGL!!

Yes they were low enough. Cleared to 2,300 MSL, and that's where they were at, and airport elevation is 728' MSL. This means they were approximately 1,500 AGL when all the problems started. A shaker or pusher at that low an altitude is a serious thing, and espeically a pusher when you're only 1,000AGL to 1,500AGL, I don't even want to think what your brain will force you to do.