Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Colgan 3407 Findings

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

ImbracableCrunk

Unregistered Un-User
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
1,481
In the Board Meeting on Feb 2nd the NTSB adopted the following 46 findings, probable cause and 25 recommendations:

Findings:

1. The flight crew was properly certificated and qualified in accordance with applicable Federal regulations.
2. The airplane was properly certified, equipped, and maintained in accordance with Federal regulations.
3. The recovered components showed no evidence of any preimpact structural, engine, or system failures, including no indications of any problems with the airplane’s ice protection system.
4. The air traffic controllers who were responsible for the flight during its approach to Buffalo-Niagara International Airport performed their duties properly and responded immediately and appropriately to the loss of radio and radar contact with the flight.
5. This accident was not survivable.
6. The captain’s inappropriate aft control column inputs in response to the stick shaker caused the airplane’s wing to stall.
7. The minimal aircraft performance degradation resulting from ice accumulation did not affect the flight crew’s ability to fly and control the airplane.
8. Explicit cues associated with the impending stick shaker onset, including the decreasing margin between indicated airspeed and the low-speed cue, the airspeed trend vector pointing downward into the low-speed cue, the changing color of the numbers on the airplane’s indicated airspeed display, and the airplane’s excessive nose-up pitch attitude, were presented on the flight instruments with adequate time for the pilots to initiate corrective action, but neither pilot responded to the presence of these cues.
9. The reason the captain did not recognize the impending onset of the stick shaker could not be determined from the available evidence, but the first officer’s tasks at the time the low-speed cue was visible would have likely reduced opportunities for her timely recognition of the impending event; the failure of both pilots to detect this situation was the result of a significant breakdown in their monitoring responsibilities and workload management.
10. The flight crew did not consider the position of the reference speeds switch when the stick shaker activated.
11. The captain’s response to stick shaker activation should have been automatic, but his improper flight control inputs were inconsistent with his training and were instead consistent with startle and confusion.
12. The captain did not recognize the stick pusher’s action to decrease angle-of-attack as a proper step in a stall recovery, and his improper flight control inputs to override the stick pusher exacerbated the situation.
13. It is unlikely that the captain was deliberately attempting to perform a tailplane stall recovery.
14. No evidence indicated that the Q400 was susceptible to a tailplane stall.
15. Although the reasons the first officer retracted the flaps and suggested raising the gear could not be determined from the available information, these actions were inconsistent with company stall recovery procedures and training.
16. The Q400 airspeed indicator lacked low-speed awareness features, such as an amber band above the low-speed cue or airspeed indications that changed to amber as speed decrease toward the low-speed cue, that would have facilitated the flight crew’s detection of the developing low-speed situation.
17. An aural warning in advance of the stick shaker would have provided a redundant cue of the visual indication of the rising low-speed cue and might have elicited a timely response from the pilots before the onset of the stick shaker.
18. The captain’s failure to effectively manage the flight (1) enabled conversation that delayed checklist completion and conflicted with sterile cockpit procedures and (2) created an environment that impeded timely error detection.
19. The monitoring errors made by the accident flight crew demonstrate the continuing need for specific pilot training on active monitoring skills.
20. Colgan Air’s standard operating procedures at the time of the accident did not promote effective monitoring behavior.
21. Specific leadership training for upgrading captains would help standardize and reinforce the critical command authority skills needed by a pilot-in-command during air carrier operations.
22. Because of the continuing number of accidents involving a breakdown of sterile cockpit discipline, collaborative action by the Federal Aviation Administration and the aviation industry to promptly address this issue is warranted.
23. The flight crewmembers’ performance during the flight, including the captain’s deviations from standard operating procedures and the first officer’s failure to challenge these deviations, was not consistent with the crew resource management (CRM) training that they had received or the concepts in the Federal Aviation Administration’s CRM guidance.
24. The pilots’ performance was likely impaired because of fatigue, but the extent of their impairment and the degree to which it contributed to the performance deficiencies that occurred during the flight cannot be conclusively determined.
 
25. All pilots, including those who commute to their home base of operations, have a personal responsibility to wisely manage their off-duty time and effectively use available rest periods so that they can arrive for work fit for duty; the accident pilots did not do so by using an inappropriate facility during their last rest period before the accident flight.
26. Colgan Air did not proactively address the pilot fatigue hazards associated with operations at a predominantly commuter base.
27. Operators have a responsibility to identify risks associated with commuting, implement strategies to mitigate these risks, and ensure that their commuting pilots are fit for duty.
28. The first officer’s illness symptoms did not likely affect her performance directly during the flight.
29. The captain had not established a good foundation of attitude instrument flying skills early in his career, and his continued weaknesses in basic aircraft control and instrument flying were not identified and adequately addressed.
30. Remedial training and additional oversight for pilots with training deficiencies and failures would help ensure that the pilots have mastered the necessary skills for safe flight.
31. Colgan Air’s electronic pilot training records did not contain sufficient detail for the company or its principal operations inspector to properly analyze the captain’s trend of unsatisfactory performance.
32. Notices of disapproval need to be considered along with other available information about pilot applicants so that air carriers can fully identify those pilots who have a history of unsatisfactory performance.
33. Colgan Air did not use all available sources of information on the flight crew’s qualifications and previous performance to determine the crew’s suitability for work at the company.
34. Colgan Air’s procedures and training at the time of the accident did not specifically require flight crews to cross-check the approach speed bug settings in relation to the reference speeds switch position; such awareness is important because a mismatch between the bugs and the switch could lead to an early stall warning.
35. The current air carrier approach-to-stall training did not fully prepare the flight crew for an unexpected stall in the Q400 and did not address the actions that are needed to recover from a fully developed stall.
36. The circumstances of this and other accidents in which pilots have responded incorrectly to the stick pusher demonstrate the continuing need to train pilots on the actions of the stick pusher and the airplane’s initial response to the pusher.
37. Pilots could have a better understanding of an airplane’s flight characteristics during the post-stall flight regime if realistic, fully developed stall models were incorporated into simulators that are approved for such training.
38. The inclusion of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration icing video in Colgan Air’s winter operations training may lead pilots to assume that a tailplane stall might be possible in the Q400, resulting in negative training.
39. The current Federal Aviation Administration surveillance standards for oversight at air carriers undergoing rapid growth and increased complexity of operations do not guarantee that any challenges encountered by the carriers as a result of these changes will be appropriately mitigated.
40. Mandatory flight operational quality assurance programs would enhance flight safety because all operators would have readily available data to identify operational risks and use in developing corrective actions.
41. The viability of flight operational quality assurance programs depends on the confidentiality of the data, which would currently not be guaranteed if operators were required to implement these programs and required to share the data with the Federal Aviation Administration.
42. The systematic monitoring of all available safety data, as part of a flight operational quality assurance program, could provide operators with objective information regarding the manner in which flights are conducted, and a periodic review of this information would enhance flight safety by assisting operators in detecting and correcting deviations from standard operating procedures.
43. Distractions caused by personal portable electronic devices affect flight safety because they can detract from a flight crew’s ability to monitor and cross-check instruments, detect hazards, and avoid errors.
44. The current use of safety alerts for operators to transmit safety-critical information is not effective because oversight and documentation of an operator’s response are not required and critical safety issues may not be effectively addressed.
45. Weather documents missing key weather products or containing products that are no longer valid prevent flight crewmembers from having relevant, readily available weather-related safety information for preflight and in-flight decision-making.
46. Detailed icing definitions that include accretion rates and recommended pilot actions would help pilots more accurately determine the icing conditions to report in airframe icing pilot reports and more effectively respond to those conditions.
 
Neither should have been in the cockpit & slacker management failed to spend the $$$ to make sure of the proper training and the removal of unfit, unqualified crews. End result a tragic loss.
 
Short version;

1. Crew failed to notice performance degredation.
2. Poor piloting skills complicated what would normally be a practiced escape manuever.
3. The subsequent crash was not survivable.

May we be blessed with wisdom from the loss of life.
 
I'm still voting for the tail-stall recovery, the NTSB didn't go for that.
 
I'm still voting for the tail-stall recovery, the NTSB didn't go for that.

With all due respect, I think the NTSB analysis is more accurate, especially given the documented scenario. You're giving this "5 time failure" too much credit to think he was addressing a tail stall. The guy was startled and pulled up, up, up. He stalled the damn thing himself.
 
With all due respect, I think the NTSB analysis is more accurate, especially given the documented scenario. You're giving this "5 time failure" too much credit to think he was addressing a tail stall. The guy was startled and pulled up, up, up. He stalled the damn thing himself.

Are you saying my Flightinfo opinion doesn't carry as much weight as the NTSB?!? ;)
 
Sorry for the crude remark (Big Doofus), but this was a very preventable accident. Automation was there to help and he fought it. Sad for all the familes.
 
As a result, GIA will now be offering "Stick Shaker & Pusher" Training for an addition $10,000.
 
As a result, GIA will now be offering "Stick Shaker & Pusher" Training for an addition $10,000.

To bad GIA does not have stick shaker nor pusher on the 1900. Sounds like the airline that trained them in the plane should of provided proper training. But then again its all GIA's fault for not training him properly on the Shaker/Pusher five years before the accident.
 
To bad GIA does not have stick shaker nor pusher on the 1900. Sounds like the airline that trained them in the plane should of provided proper training. But then again its all GIA's fault for not training him properly on the Shaker/Pusher five years before the accident.

Wow, nothing gets by you, does it?
How about you lighten up and realize it's a joke.
 
A camera in the cockpit would have made it easier for the investigators to see what the CA and FO were doing to not catch the airspeed decaying.
 
A camera in the cockpit would have made it easier for the investigators to see what the CA and FO were doing to not catch the airspeed decaying.
Go ahead about put video cameras in the cockpit.
2 things will happen. 1. Newspapers or hats will be placed over the lens.
2. They will air videos on the news of pilots sleeping, reading the newspaper, picking their noses and flying in the nude.
 
Go ahead about put video cameras in the cockpit.
2 things will happen. 1. Newspapers or hats will be placed over the lens.
2. They will air videos on the news of pilots sleeping, reading the newspaper, picking their noses and flying in the nude.
Don't mind CX...he's FI's version of the kid in the back of the short bus who's licking the window.
 
a camera in the cockpit would be ok so long as it was located in such a way that I could hang my hat on it.
 
If we don't get serious about "policing" our own, then we will all suffer....The union can't have it both ways.....Either we stop protecting those who need to find something else to do...or we ALL suffer the consequences and subject ourselves to some political BS....I say we start policing our own and raise the standards...
 
Neither should have been in the cockpit & slacker management failed to spend the $$$ to make sure of the proper training and the removal of unfit, unqualified crews. End result a tragic loss.

+1. Here's the answer.

This NTSB "investigation" will remembered in the same vein as the "Lover's spat" conclusion for the COS UA 737 rudder-hard-over accident.

That vein is in shame.

The FAA skates, Colgan skates, and the NTSB raises its hands and says, "Don't worry Mr. and Mrs. America, regional airlines are safe!"
 
+1. Here's the answer.

This NTSB "investigation" will remembered in the same vein as the "Lover's spat" conclusion for the COS UA 737 rudder-hard-over accident.

That vein is in shame.

The FAA skates, Colgan skates, and the NTSB raises its hands and says, "Don't worry Mr. and Mrs. America, regional airlines are safe!"

Bingo!
 
+1. Here's the answer.

This NTSB "investigation" will remembered in the same vein as the "Lover's spat" conclusion for the COS UA 737 rudder-hard-over accident.

That vein is in shame.

The FAA skates, Colgan skates, and the NTSB raises its hands and says, "Don't worry Mr. and Mrs. America, regional airlines are safe!"

While I agree with you that they didn't belong in the cockpit, ALPA should have made sure these two were never in the cockpit.
Since ALPA is all about safety, they should have made sure they weren't hired. Now I know ALPA wasn't on the property at the time, but if ALPA is as serious about making the whole aviation industry safer for everyone, well they should have stepped in and made sure Colgan was hiring competent pilots.
Instead ALPA is more worried about the collection of dues, and having unsafe pilots in the cockpit would bankrupt the Union.
 
While I agree with you that they didn't belong in the cockpit, ALPA should have made sure these two were never in the cockpit.
Since ALPA is all about safety, they should have made sure they weren't hired. Now I know ALPA wasn't on the property at the time, but if ALPA is as serious about making the whole aviation industry safer for everyone, well they should have stepped in and made sure Colgan was hiring competent pilots.
Instead ALPA is more worried about the collection of dues, and having unsafe pilots in the cockpit would bankrupt the Union.

ALPA, for all of its faults, cannot run the airline. The way that Colgan integrated the Q400 into its fleet, trained (or more properly didn't train)the pilots, hired pilots, and managed (or more properly, mismanaged) the Q400 in day to day operations, helped to cause this accident. Period.

ALPA cannot mandate training, manuals, and qualifications. These are the job of the management team, with oversight from the FAA.

While in a perfect world, ALPA would raise these issues with airline, or if that fails, raises them with the media, they are treading on some thin ice if management decides to push back, which a management team with Colgan's reputation most certainly would.

Accident investigations are about assigning blame to the most judgement-proof involved party, at this point. Regarding safety, its rapidily approaching every man for himself.
 
ALPA, for all of its faults, cannot run the airline. The way that Colgan integrated the Q400 into its fleet, trained (or more properly didn't train)the pilots, hired pilots, and managed (or more properly, mismanaged) the Q400 in day to day operations, helped to cause this accident. Period.

ALPA cannot mandate training, manuals, and qualifications. These are the job of the management team, with oversight from the FAA.

While in a perfect world, ALPA would raise these issues with airline, or if that fails, raises them with the media, they are treading on some thin ice if management decides to push back, which a management team with Colgan's reputation most certainly would.

Accident investigations are about assigning blame to the most judgement-proof involved party, at this point. Regarding safety, its rapidily approaching every man for himself.
Don't get me wrong, I complete agree and understand what you're saying.
But in recent threads, there have been some ALPA chest thumpers who think that ALPA's sole purpose is safety and that they have made the whole aviation community safer (91,135,121) single handedly.
They also say ALPA has the power to do anything they want. They can make anything happen, they get what they want because they're so powerful.

So, what I am saying is more in a response to what those guys think of ALPA.
 
Neither should have been in the cockpit & slacker management failed to spend the $$$ to make sure of the proper training and the removal of unfit, unqualified crews. End result a tragic loss.
Would the outcome be different if both crew members were paid a salary with which they could afford to put themselves up in a hotel?
 
wayback,

I know you hate ALPA, but the fact is ALPA had been on the property at Colgan less than a month when the accident happened. How could ALPA have kept them out of the flight deck?
 
They also say ALPA has the power to do anything they want. They can make anything happen, they get what they want because they're so powerful.

So, what I am saying is more in a response to what those guys think of ALPA.

As a former ALPA Safety Chair, I've never said that, and I don't know of one that would. Maybe it's time to ignore the riffraff around here.

Maybe a good Pro-Stands could have prevented this type of accident if the captain was such a rotten PIC.

Everyone on here talks about flying with Capt X or FO X, and what a rotten pilot they are. But they probably never call their Pro-Stands team and get that pilot some help.

[/ramble]
 
If we don't get serious about "policing" our own, then we will all suffer....The union can't have it both ways.....Either we stop protecting those who need to find something else to do...or we ALL suffer the consequences and subject ourselves to some political BS....I say we start policing our own and raise the standards...


Are you saying that you would prefer an increase in dues to give ALPA a Check Airman role at each property?


Are you saying that you personally should be the judge of flying skills of line flying pilots?


What are you saying here?
 
While I agree with you that they didn't belong in the cockpit, ALPA should have made sure these two were never in the cockpit.



How precisely would ALPA have prevented this from happening with less than a month on property?

I think I agree with you that ALPA isn't perfect, but I'm not following you on your assertion that this accident can be attributed to Alpa.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom