Colgan 3407 CVR Transcript

[Thurman Merman]

I put this on another thread as well:

"A factor not discussed is the stupid "Increase ref speed switch." When in icing conditions and turned on it raises the low speed que about 20 knots hence the necessity for getting the corrected ref speeds for Icing conditions, or just remembering to bumb up your ref speed +15/+20 depending on flap setting. When the shaker occured it was a system manufactured event due to this little switch being moved to the on position. The stall was a result of the sudden pitch up. When the shaker occured there was still plenty of flying speed."

 

[FastJP4]

Very sad, and unfortunately should never have occurred.

I see alot of people pointing the finger at this guy being a PFT'r. While I don't agree with PFT - it seems to me that this guy must have passed some Colgan FO checkrides, a Colgan Saab upgrade checkride, and a Colgan Dash type ride.

I imagine the Colgan training department is definately on the hot seat. And I couldn't agree more - 5 busts seems like it would indicate some problems. How many of those busts were at Colgan? Anyone can have a bad ride - but 5?

RIP to all onboard.

 

[check6]

Here is the NTSB animation. I think it speeks for itself. Sad sad sad!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxywEE1kK6I

As a Q400 driver this animation saddens me. I watched it several times.

At around 180 knots the gear was called down. As part of that flow the condition levers went to max. Now, putting the condition levers to max creates a very large amount of drag. The blades are just over 13 ft. in diameter.

It looked to me that after the gear and condition levers were brought up, there was not much power movement until the stick shaker at which the power levers are increased.

All of this has been established earlier in this thread, but as for the Q400-esque stuff:

Normally, with the "Ref Speeds" switch placed to "increase", with each additional increment of flaps the "low speed cue" will decrease. It is noticeable if at a safe airspeed.

I noticed the "flaps 15" call was made at a very low speed. As said before, additional flaps would lower the "red tape" or low speed cue if the speed was higher and the AOA was lower. I think, the combination of speed and AOA, prevented the low speed cue from dropping due to the airplane from being on the backside of the power curve. In other words, I'd say the airplane's computer knew what was happening before the pilot did.

In icing conditions, I can honestly say I've never seen the speed that low without having already configured.

 

[cheerios2]

it didnt matter what the FO did with the flaps... the plane was never going to start flying again if the ********************ing nose was never lowered.

 

[LazyLightnin']

I imagine the Colgan training department is definately on the hot seat. And I couldn't agree more - 5 busts seems like it would indicate some problems. How many of those busts were at Colgan? Anyone can have a bad ride - but 5?

The two top training officials at Colgan resigned in the recent weeks. Probably just a coincidence.

 

[Abernathy]

I imagine the Colgan training department is definately on the hot seat. And I couldn't agree more - 5 busts seems like it would indicate some problems. How many of those busts were at Colgan? Anyone can have a bad ride - but 5?

One of the articles indicated that 2 busts were at Colgan. Could be more or less depending on the accuracy of the article.