Colgan 3407 CVR Transcript

[WSurf]

Surf, maybe a refresher course before you carry your next passenger.

I hate the internet...

LOL, I will try not to stall my Dash today.

 

[UALRATT]

Correct, I haven't instructed in over 10 years. Ty

Very Sad. What does instructing have to do with professional knowledge?

 

[Singlecoil]

Please quit while you are behind Wsurf. You sound like a moron, but I'm sure you're just confused. An F-15 can go straight up because it has a thrust to weight ratio greater than 1. You can go straight up in a Cessna (briefly) and not stall the wing at 10 knots IAS. You can also stall the Cessna at 120 knots. The instant the angle of attack is lowered, the stall is broken, but airspeed hasn't increased yet. Airspeed increases as a result of the stall recovery, it isn't the stall recovery in an of itself.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Yep. As has been said...it's all about reducing the AOA to less than the critical angle of attack for the given conditions...airspeed, configuration, weight, cg, etc. And in this case (unlike a go-around) raising flaps, gear etc would be a bad thing.

 

[twott driver]

WSurf, sometimes it's better to keep quiet than open your mouth and confirm your lack of understanding.

Regarding the crews' discussion about their lack of experience, and then promptly crashing a perfectly good plane into the ground, I couldn't agree more. This won't be the last crash attributed to lack of experience/training/piloting ability unfortunately.

 

[Andy Neill]

HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.

This has been quoted by several people on several threads as if that was her current situation. A minute earlier she said:

I had more actual time on my first day of IOE than I did in the sixteen hundred hours I had when I came here.​

and less than 30 seconds after the cited segment she said:

but I'm glad to have seen oh— you know now I'm so much more​

comfortable with it all.

In other words, although she had no exposure to icing and deicing before Colgan, she had repeated exposure to it since arriving and she was now more comfortable with it.

 

[AWACoff]

DUH! Learn aerodynamics! From your asinine argument, a Dash can't slow down in a descent. Hopefully somebody publishes a book on Aerodynamics for Dummies...you need it. You can stall at any speed based on AOA.

Duh! By lowering the pitch aren't you increasing Airspeed? Yes Airspeed is what you want! If that means lowering the nose you do it. Sorry I didn't make it simplier for you.

 

[scotts]

Thanks to all who posted factual stall recovery info...

Now, back to the blame game.

If you want to focus on where the blame for this accident originates, all you need to do is look at the RFP process for regional airline flying and the low standards the FAA imposes on all airlines for their training program.

The "major" airlines put out flying to bid on. The various regionals bid for this flying knowing that the lowest bidder who can actually produce the flying will get the award. For the winning regional airline to survive financially, they have to structure the company in a way that will allow some small profit for the owners/shareholders. One of the ways any airline will do that is to create the least cost training program that the FAA will approve. This leads to a myriad of issues with inadequate training of inexperienced new-hires and upgrade candidates. The FAA signs off on the program after examining it, thus giving some measure of defense to the company when the worst happens.

What we have is a broken system enabled by a government agency at odds with itself. The FAA is charged with promoting aviation, commercial and otherwise. If it increases the standards that must be complied with by all airlines in their training program, they see that as suffocating the very thing they are charged with promoting.

The only way this deadly situation is going to change is if Congress forces them to. Even if you hear rhetoric emanating from congressional hearings, don't believe anything is going to change until you read the new standards that the FAA enacts as a result of pressure from Congress.

 

[Jar Jar]

I'm amazed at how much we can learn about the crew from this CVR transcript, I've had very few flights where both crewmembers provide such a detailed history of their flying experience, and here we have it on a cvr tape.

I honestly hope that some form of regulatory change takes place as a result of the problems so clearly highlighted by this crew with respect to the regional airline industry as it is today. Regardless of errors made, I'm sure the crew of 3407 would want us to learn from their experience and hopefully they can help make our industry just a little bit safer.

 

[Jar Jar]

The FAA is charged with promoting aviation, commercial and otherwise. If it increases the standards that must be complied with by all arilines in their training program, they see that as suffocating the very thing they are charged with promoting.

The only way this deadly situation is going to change is if Congress forces them to. Even if you hear rhetoric emanating from congressional hearings, don't believe anything is going to change until you read the new standards that the FAA enacts as a result of pressure from Congress.

The FAA mision no longer includes the promotion of aviation, that changed a few years ago. That was correct, just outdated. Their new mission has been for a few years now "To provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world". http://www.faa.gov/about/Mission/

The real question is, how much safer than the rest of the world do we want to be? I'll take all I can get, if it means more training - sign me up.