Colgan 3407 CVR Transcript

[LazyLightnin']

That is not where it spoke to me.
It leaves me asking how can someone get into any seat in a turboprop, and *NOT* know what a chip detect was?

Then in this case you've got your priorities extremely out of order.

The captain knew what a chip detector was. Obviously. He explained it to her. But what good does that do when you forget that airspeed = good?

 

[goodgig]

Then in this case you've got your priorities extremely out of order.

The captain knew what a chip detector was. Obviously. He explained it to her. But what good does that do when you forget that airspeed = good?

??? I don't think they were talking about a chip detector going off on this particular flight. It just came up in conversation. The fact still remains the pilot got through training, and at least one checkride and oral, and did not know what a chip detector was. (?)_

 

[Thurman Merman]

That is not where it spoke to me.
It leaves me asking how can someone get into any seat in a turboprop, and *NOT* know what a chip detect was?

To her credit it was the first turbine airplane she had flown and there is no "CHIP DETECT" light in the Q400. It is a FADEC airplane, where you might get a POWERPLANT message and the computer would flame out the engine more than likely. This is a Dash 8, but a vastly different Dash 8 and the same type is a little of a stretch.

 

[LazyLightnin']

??? I don't think they were talking about a chip detector going off on this particular flight. It just came up in conversation. The fact still remains the pilot got through training, and at least one checkride and oral, and did not know what a chip detector was. (?)_

And I'm telling you that it is irrelevant because she didn't crash the airplane.

Having said that, I see your point. I always did. Just don't think it's got anything to do with basic aerodynamic fundamentals (the cause of the accident).

 

[Papa Woody]

My underwear has a chip detector.

It'll probably go off soon.....it's been about 5 days...

 

[HalinTexas]

Q400 stall recovery:

First indication of stall (stick shaker):
-lower nose
Positive Rate (increase in airspeed):
-gear up
Vfri (flap retraction speed):
-flaps up, the only time you touch the flaps prior
to Vfri is if you have flaps 35 then you retract
to flaps 15 otherwise flap 15 is left until
acceleration to Vfri.

That sounds like the TP procedures I remember.

To recap: The captain takes about 26 seconds at FI, or at a very reduced power setting, to set up the stall. The speed he was decelerating to was not briefed.

Stick shaker was not reponded to. He had more than his experience (including all training) could handle. He fought the pusher.

The FO raised the flaps with being commanded. Want do you think this did to the CAs workload? To the stall speed? Answer: Both increased.

Solution: More experienced personnel, at least in the left seat, and more/better training for all. Another tragedy that could have been avoided.

 

[Abernathy]

That sounds like the TP procedures I remember.

To recap: The captain takes about 26 seconds at FI, or at a very reduced power setting, to set up the stall. The speed he was decelerating to was not briefed.

Stick shaker was not reponded to. He had more than his experience (including all training) could handle. He fought the pusher.

The FO raised the flaps with being commanded. Want do you think this did to the CAs workload? To the stall speed? Answer: Both increased.

Solution: More experienced personnel, at least in the left seat, and more/better training for all. Another tragedy that could have been avoided.

Is it at all concerning that this particular CA had failed 5 checkrides, including a couple at Colgan? No one is immune from failing a checkride or two. But I'm not gonna lie 5 seems like a bit much.

 

[Airline Driver]

Here is the NTSB animation. I think it speeks for itself. Sad sad sad!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxywEE1kK6I

 

[JSky26]

Here is the NTSB animation. I think it speeks for itself. Sad sad sad!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxywEE1kK6I

Speechless....

 

[SEVEN]

Here is the NTSB animation. I think it speeks for itself. Sad sad sad!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxywEE1kK6I

I want to yell at the screen....Push the Power up!!!

Sad.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

...and lower the damn nose.

 

[twott driver]

ugly ugly ugly

 

[sarin m92]

Has anyone noticed this: The aircraft is slowing for landing. The Captain calls for flaps 15. The flap handle is moved, the FO says “uhhh” then the stick shaker comes on. The Captain says "Jesus Christ". The FO says “I put the flaps up”
So instead of putting the flaps to 15, the FO actually raised the flaps?
Am I reading the transcript correctly?

22:16:23.5 (C) "Flaps fifteen before landing checklist"
22:16:26.0 (sound of flap handle movement)
22:16:26.6 (FO) "Uhhh"
22:16:27.4 Stick shaker
autopilot disconnect, horn, increase engine noise
(C) "Jesus Christ"
22:17:37.1 (FO) "I put the flaps up"

Horn and stick shaker continue to impact...


The Captains nose up recovery aggravated the stall. However, seems to me she may have led the Captain down the path to the stall.
I don’t think she raised them in response to the stall warning. Rather, she raised them prior to the stall and that is what caused the stall.


Ice on the wing, heavy aircraft, increased stall speed, inattention, raise the flaps…Hmm.
Tragic.

What do you think?
Nothing on the news about her comments after moving the flap. Not sure if NTSB has commented on this segment of the transcript.

 

[Flyer1015]

Don't blame just the pilots, how about blaming the training program and the never ending issues of long working days and associated tiredness/fatigue, which plays in level of alertness?

And enough crap already about "inexperienced" pilots crashing this plane. Don't forget the last crash of a major airline and the pilot actions. Fully smashing a control surface (rudder) in both directions to the full stop, and snapping off the tail. Boom, 265+ dead.

 

[CA1900]

Rather, she raised them prior to the stall and that is what caused the stall.

The animation from the FDR doesn't show that, though. The stick shaker starts as the flaps are moving from 5 to 10; she doesn't retract them until well into the stall. I don't think it helped the recovery, but the plane stalled before the flaps were retracted.