Colgan 3407 CVR Transcript

[scotts]

The FAA mision no longer includes the promotion of aviation, that changed a few years ago. That was correct, just outdated. Their new mission has been for a few years now "To provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world". http://www.faa.gov/about/Mission/

The real question is, how much safer than the rest of the world do we want to be? I'll take all I can get, if it means more training - sign me up.

The stated mission could well have changed. I was writing from what I remembered without looking it up first.

Regardless, the FAA won't change it's standards unless forced to by external pressure. You can bet that airline industry lobbyists will be standing alongside and in opposition to anyone trying to get them to raise standards. If it will cost the major airlines more money, they are going to oppose it. Perhaps the regional airlines would welcome increased standards imposed on them. Then they would be able justify more comprehensive training as being something that they are forced to do.

 

[Jar Jar]

Regardless, the FAA won't change it's standards unless forced to by external pressure. You can bet that airline industry lobbyists will be standing alongside and in opposition to anyone trying to get them to raise standards.

Exactly. We can only hope that the public outcry would exceed the capacity of organizations like the ATA to lobby the FAA.

 

[PUNISHER]

This is just sad. The industry needs to say no to PFT.

It's ridiculous how bad PFTrs can compromise safety. I've had to experience this first hand. In the past 2 years the company I work for has been hiring PFT FOs and there is no doubt that the quality of our FOs have droped drastically.

I know some of you will argue that a properly trained pilot with 300tt can be just as good as a pilot with 1200tt. That may be true but there is a lot to be said about tt and actual operating experience.

My hats off to all of you that have to fly with inexperienced crewmembers day in and day out.

 

[Flyer1015]

HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.

TAKE THIS IN CONTEXT!!!!!!!!! You, along with the media, are throwing her under the bus.

Her point was coming from her background/training in AZ and how there wasn't much icing there. She was talking about her first days at Colgan, and not upgrading until she had AT LEAST one winter season done under her belt. This comment was regarding back in from where she came from. It did NOT mean that it was true during this flight. The media is painting a picture that she was "fearful" and "scared" , but that is NOT the case with the comments made, when you LOOK AT IT IN CONTEXT!

 

[satpak77]

This accident is sad, offensive, and an embarassment. PFT should be BANNED.

"In my day" to get hired at a regional, flying a SF-340 as a mope FO, you needed 2500 TT, 500 of which must have been multi time, usually single pilot flying trashed Barons or Navajos night IFR, carrying checks.

And 98% of those guys had been flying since high school or college, and pumped gas at the FBO as "apprenticeship."

Now? PFT? "Career changer" becomes "Airline Captain" at age 47? What happened to the industry? "Never been in ice" WTF YOU F-- SH--in me?

Sad, embarrasing, and offensive.

 

[goodgig]

Speaks volumes to me:

HOT-1
get in uh start up number two and we're doing the paperwork and all of a
sudden we get bing. look— it looked— it was engine lookup light. I went
oh crap that's not good. I looked up it was chip detect. right chip detect.
21:39:43.3
HOT-2
what's that?
21:39:43.7
HOT-1
what— what that— what that's doing is detecting chips of metal in the
engine.
21:39:48.4
HOT-2
oh.

 

[Thurman Merman]

In some airplanes, yep? I haven't flown the dash of any series... I wonder if Colgan trains approaches to stall only, where maybe getting rid of flaps will reduce the drag more than the lift and allow the plane to accelerate in a more timely manner. Any Q drivers could speak up.


Most of the planes I've flown you leave the configuration alone until the stall event is over, then clean it up.

Q400 stall recovery:

First indication of stall (stick shaker):
-lower nose
Positive Rate (increase in airspeed):
-gear up
Vfri (flap retraction speed):
-flaps up, the only time you touch the flaps prior
to Vfri is if you have flaps 35 then you retract
to flaps 15 otherwise flap 15 is left until
acceleration to Vfri.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Speaks volumes to me:

HOT-1
get in uh start up number two and we're doing the paperwork and all of a
sudden we get bing. look— it looked— it was engine lookup light. I went
oh crap that's not good. I looked up it was chip detect. right chip detect.
21:39:43.3
HOT-2
what's that?
21:39:43.7
HOT-1
what— what that— what that's doing is detecting chips of metal in the
engine.
21:39:48.4
HOT-2
oh.

Normally, I'd be the first one to join with you guys on bashing the female pilot, but in this circumstance, should she have been the one acting as pilot flying there wouldn't have been a crash.

Sure, she should have spoken up, and that comes with having no balls. But don't forget that the balls in the left is the one who stalled the aircraft over the marker. What was he looking at? Sounds to me she was paying more attention in the first place.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

40 something Marvin gets tired of his cubicle and drops $30K for 250 hrs as a paid FO before hiring on at Colgan with 625 hrs. Why hasnt this come out in the media yet? The public should know about these shady PFT practices out there. It needs to stop for so many reasons.

This is just sad. The industry needs to say no to PFT.

It's ridiculous how bad PFTrs can compromise safety. I've had to experience this first hand. In the past 2 years the company I work for has been hiring PFT FOs and there is no doubt that the quality of our FOs have droped drastically.

Free market capitalism....... it will be the hidden driving force behind keeping the status quo.....

In addition, embracing it unfettered and thhen calling for the banishing of PFT is contradicting.....


Regulation?

 

[goodgig]

Normally, I'd be the first one to join with you guys on bashing the female pilot, but in this circumstance, should she have been the one acting as pilot flying there wouldn't have been a crash.

Sure, she should have spoken up, and that comes with having no balls. But don't forget that the balls in the left is the one who stalled the aircraft over the marker. What was he looking at? Sounds to me she was paying more attention in the first place.

That is not where it spoke to me.
It leaves me asking how can someone get into any seat in a turboprop, and *NOT* know what a chip detect was?