Coke

[AA717driver]

400A--You are right. Sorry about going off like that. Thanks for alerting us to the job.TC

 

[Gearmunky]

Uh,,,,,, shooting an ILS to minimums and programing the FMS ore not related!!!! Holy Crap Dude,,, In these kind of airplanes, you can't shoot an ILS to minimums if you cant run the box. You are really beginning to scare me.

I started this post to let any of the gang on this site out there that there was a good job opening, and you have turned it into some little sissy face crying session.

Dont tell us we are hotheads. You are the one that came in with all the ****CENSORED****** crap..

Again read Rice's post! That sums it up!

400A

Sorry the computer censors such harsh words like d@mn I wasn't the one turning it into a crying sissy session. I was making a point that judging a pilot by his time over a job is a "Sissy face crying session" type of thing to do. It comes off as jealous that they are there and your not. You were right when you said this business doesn't owe you anything so why does everyone think that this business owes you a job because of your "thousands of hours and countless type ratings"

Lower time pilots should work harder because we realize that were lucky to be there and we know that this business doesn't owe us anything. And if you are a low time pilot and think you know everything.....we'll read about you.

And like AA717 said, thanks for the post it's nice to know all the good jobs aren't all taken up and when I do get my type and a couple thousand hours, hopefully there will still be something left.

 

[rice]

Hey Monkeyboy

I meant quality time, not time spent shooting the pattern in day VFR. For example military pilots are flying their high performance jets at like 300 hours all because that 300 hours is quality time and the bar was set for them higher. I'm not saying that any civilian time ranks with that intensity, but 1000 hours spent flying VFR on an IFR flight plan and 600 hours flying night freight or something in actual conditions are entirely different types of experience.

This is the point I'm trying to make

Okay here you go again!!!! (Speaking about what you don't know) True military guys do fly high performance aircraft with relatively low time but they just aren't given the keys to do it on their own.
When someone reports to his first squadron do you know what he's called??? An FNG (you figure it out) because everyone knows he's green and has no experience outside of the training command. Single seat guys fly with a much more experienced lead and multi-crew guys fly with an aircraft commander (pic). They sit, watch, learn, participate, and then speak.
I guarantee you that reversing that order will only destine a newby to a life of hell and little respect from his peers.
As for your freightdog analogy; hey I think flying night freight is great experience and definitely hones your scan but it has about as much to do with jet flying (domestic or int'l) as flight instructing in a C-172 does with carrier ops. ZIP, ZERO, NADA!!!!!!!! As I see it, your experience (based on your profile) gives you about 1 to 3 three tools in your toolbox. In other words, you aint got much to work with right now. But in time like the rest of us your box will be full of tools and your experience will be much broader. Just remember if you keep shooting your mouth off and never learn how to use those tools then you just become a tool yourself.

 

[Otter]

Gearmunky,

I understand your point, but I think you fail to see that of the other seasoned veterans. Different types of experience do develop pilots at varying rates of experience in varying rates of time. Thus your point, get to know the individual. However, there is sage advice from these gentlemen, it takes time with your a$$ in the breeze to develop experience with depth to handle any and all situations thrown at you. There is the difference in a wrote (spelling?) effort by a "gear monkey" no pun against your name, and an experienced pilot. Believe it or not, there are scenarios with the aircraft that are not in a checklist (not meant derogatorily, statement of fact).



The first time mother nature, an aircraft, or an a idiot in the other seat scares 10 years off your life you will understand and appreciate what is being said. Experience dictates the amount of time one sits there with a dumb or astounded look on their face prior to responding appropriately to the situation. The only (and I emphasize ONLY) thing that develops that response time is experience, and copious amounts of it.

Best,

Otter

 

[Gearmunky]

Okay here you go again!!!! (Speaking about what you don't know) True military guys do fly high performance aircraft with relatively low time but they just aren't given the keys to do it on their own.
When someone reports to his first squadron do you know what he's called??? An FNG (you figure it out) because everyone knows he's green and has no experience outside of the training command. Single seat guys fly with a much more experienced lead and multi-crew guys fly with an aircraft commander (pic). They sit, watch, learn, participate, and then speak.
I guarantee you that reversing that order will only destine a newby to a life of hell and little respect from his peers.
As for your freightdog analogy; hey I think flying night freight is great experience and definitely hones your scan but it has about as much to do with jet flying (domestic or int'l) as flight instructing in a C-172 does with carrier ops. ZIP, ZERO, NADA!!!!!!!! As I see it, your experience (based on your profile) gives you about 1 to 3 three tools in your toolbox. In other words, you aint got much to work with right now. But in time like the rest of us your box will be full of tools and your experience will be much broader. Just remember if you keep shooting your mouth off and never learn how to use those tools then you just become a tool yourself.

Rice,

Why don't you take what I'm saying rearrange it into your own words and then try and start an argument about it?

The fact of the matter is I UNDERSTAND what your saying and that's what I'm talking about. I'm not shooting my mouth off and all your are doing is looking for an argument to shoot off yours. It's all how your trained and your experience is how you should be judged not your hours.

The 4000 hour guy I fly with got his hours VFR in Alaska not talking to anyone, and flying at 500 feet. It's seat of the pants flying, but is completely different than flying in the crud, talking to the wonderful controllers around here in the northeast, and handling the a/c at the same time. (Just like carrier ops and 172's) The 1200tt guy Coke hired, could have been hired at a regional at 600hrs and built 600 more hours in jets. You don't know that so don't judge them.

As for me, I have low time but good time and I know my a/c (and the box)pretty well, but at no time will this ever account for sitting in it and building just plain ole' time. As for that it just takes that...time.

I think I've been extremely lucky and am very thankful. As a result of that, I don't judge another pilot by their time, because I don't know their backround, where they came from, or how they were trained.

 

[Gearmunky]

Gearmunky,

I understand your point, but I think you fail to see that of the other seasoned veterans. Different types of experience do develop pilots at varying rates of experience in varying rates of time. Thus your point, get to know the individual. However, there is sage advice from these gentlemen, it takes time with your a$$ in the breeze to develop experience with depth to handle any and all situations thrown at you. There is the difference in a wrote (spelling?) effort by a "gear monkey" no pun against your name, and an experienced pilot. Believe it or not, there are scenarios with the aircraft that are not in a checklist (not meant derogatorily, statement of fact).



The first time mother nature, an aircraft, or an a idiot in the other seat scares 10 years off your life you will understand and appreciate what is being said. Experience dictates the amount of time one sits there with a dumb or astounded look on their face prior to responding appropriately to the situation. The only (and I emphasize ONLY) thing that develops that response time is experience, and copious amounts of it.

Best,

Otter

Finally, someone understands!!!

Thank You

 

[GVFlyer]

Our department hires only high time pilots.

The reason flight time is important to us has to do with judgement. Judgement develops as the product of experience and experience accrues over time.

The more flight time you have the more likely it is that you've seen the event that just happened, or is happening, before. The fact that you are still around means that either you made the right decision before or made the wrong decision, luckily survived your mistake, and vowed never to do that again.

We pay for that experience and the resulting judgement.

GV










~

 

[deez_nutz2000]

Uh,,,,,, shooting an ILS to minimums and programing the FMS ore not related!!!! Holy Crap Dude,,, In these kind of airplanes, you can't shoot an ILS to minimums if you cant run the box. You are really beginning to scare me.

400A

400A,

I dont know about your Hawker 400, but I sure hope you can fly an ILS to minimums without the box. Your statement actually "scares me". I may not have all the experience you have, but if I couldnt shoot an ILS to minimums on raw data EVERY time I shot one, I'd find another occupation.

 

[GVFlyer]

I doubt if there are very many that meet their qualification requirements.

And fewer yet who would want to work there...

GV

 

[Daveman]

Hey, any of you G-Drivers out there looking for work, Coke is looking for a Captain. It is on their website and Avcrew.com

Good Luck
400A

And just think, this is the way this thread started. Some guy just tryin' to be nice
posting a job ad.
I don't qualify but I'll thank you 400A.

 

[bigD]

I know my role

I think this thread is indicative that no, you don't.

 

[bafanguy]

And fewer yet who would want to work there...

GV

GV,

Now, that is a pregnant statement !! Just gonna leave us all hangin' ?

 

[sleepy]

And fewer yet who would want to work there...

GV

Well said, but I'm sure that there is somebody out there who is ready for the challenge.

 

[400A]

Oh Please

400A,

I dont know about your Hawker 400, but I sure hope you can fly an ILS to minimums without the box. Your statement actually "scares me". I may not have all the experience you have, but if I couldnt shoot an ILS to minimums on raw data EVERY time I shot one, I'd find another occupation.

If I have scared you sir, than please leave the airspace!!! I believe that 99% of the professional aviators on this board can shoot a raw data ILS to mins every time, however, with all of the fixes, missed approach info and holding (including speeds and altitudes) in the box, why in the heck would I do that. Its a safety feature. While I am thinking about it, I think I will turn off my TCAS II and my EGPWS so I can say I can do it the hard way. Managing a fully automated cockpit is far more complex than a raw data ILS to mins. We were supposed to be able to do that when we got the rating. You missed the whole point.

Mine is not a Hawker 400, it is a 400A(prior to marketing name change) and the AMS 5000, when operated properly loads all of the approaches, tunes the frquencies and sets the courses. Manually tuning the frequencies and courses is in the revisionary mode (and yes I can do that too!!!!) not only can i do that, just like all the other veterans on this board, I can do it to 200 1/2 on the peanuts with a full electrical failure.

You missed the whole point of that post, it was because he was blowing off the importance of knowing how to run a box. The more sophisticated these birds get, the less manual tuning we will be doing.

 

[400A]

No offense taken

I was at FSI when a low timer came through. Nice person but if I'm a CEO (even at a PC-infested company like most F500 companies these days) I'm not going to be too happy about my captains having to fly the airplane AND babysit lowtimers just to make the EEOC'ers in HR happy.

Oops! Did I say that out loud?TC

No foul here, I actually agree with that, even more so with something as complex as a Gulfstream doing international work. You want the best. A Gulfstream in my opinion is not the place for advanced flight instruction.

We require more time experience for the right seat of our Beechjet than they do for SIC's. I just wanted PIC's to know the opening was there.

400A