Coke

[Gearmunky]

Gearmunky,

I understand your point, but I think you fail to see that of the other seasoned veterans. Different types of experience do develop pilots at varying rates of experience in varying rates of time. Thus your point, get to know the individual. However, there is sage advice from these gentlemen, it takes time with your a$$ in the breeze to develop experience with depth to handle any and all situations thrown at you. There is the difference in a wrote (spelling?) effort by a "gear monkey" no pun against your name, and an experienced pilot. Believe it or not, there are scenarios with the aircraft that are not in a checklist (not meant derogatorily, statement of fact).



The first time mother nature, an aircraft, or an a idiot in the other seat scares 10 years off your life you will understand and appreciate what is being said. Experience dictates the amount of time one sits there with a dumb or astounded look on their face prior to responding appropriately to the situation. The only (and I emphasize ONLY) thing that develops that response time is experience, and copious amounts of it.

Best,

Otter

Finally, someone understands!!!

Thank You

 

[GVFlyer]

Our department hires only high time pilots.

The reason flight time is important to us has to do with judgement. Judgement develops as the product of experience and experience accrues over time.

The more flight time you have the more likely it is that you've seen the event that just happened, or is happening, before. The fact that you are still around means that either you made the right decision before or made the wrong decision, luckily survived your mistake, and vowed never to do that again.

We pay for that experience and the resulting judgement.

GV










~

 

[deez_nutz2000]

Uh,,,,,, shooting an ILS to minimums and programing the FMS ore not related!!!! Holy Crap Dude,,, In these kind of airplanes, you can't shoot an ILS to minimums if you cant run the box. You are really beginning to scare me.

400A

400A,

I dont know about your Hawker 400, but I sure hope you can fly an ILS to minimums without the box. Your statement actually "scares me". I may not have all the experience you have, but if I couldnt shoot an ILS to minimums on raw data EVERY time I shot one, I'd find another occupation.

 

[GVFlyer]

I doubt if there are very many that meet their qualification requirements.

And fewer yet who would want to work there...

GV

 

[Daveman]

Hey, any of you G-Drivers out there looking for work, Coke is looking for a Captain. It is on their website and Avcrew.com

Good Luck
400A

And just think, this is the way this thread started. Some guy just tryin' to be nice
posting a job ad.
I don't qualify but I'll thank you 400A.

 

[bigD]

I know my role

I think this thread is indicative that no, you don't.

 

[bafanguy]

And fewer yet who would want to work there...

GV

GV,

Now, that is a pregnant statement !! Just gonna leave us all hangin' ?

 

[sleepy]

And fewer yet who would want to work there...

GV

Well said, but I'm sure that there is somebody out there who is ready for the challenge.

 

[400A]

Oh Please

400A,

I dont know about your Hawker 400, but I sure hope you can fly an ILS to minimums without the box. Your statement actually "scares me". I may not have all the experience you have, but if I couldnt shoot an ILS to minimums on raw data EVERY time I shot one, I'd find another occupation.

If I have scared you sir, than please leave the airspace!!! I believe that 99% of the professional aviators on this board can shoot a raw data ILS to mins every time, however, with all of the fixes, missed approach info and holding (including speeds and altitudes) in the box, why in the heck would I do that. Its a safety feature. While I am thinking about it, I think I will turn off my TCAS II and my EGPWS so I can say I can do it the hard way. Managing a fully automated cockpit is far more complex than a raw data ILS to mins. We were supposed to be able to do that when we got the rating. You missed the whole point.

Mine is not a Hawker 400, it is a 400A(prior to marketing name change) and the AMS 5000, when operated properly loads all of the approaches, tunes the frquencies and sets the courses. Manually tuning the frequencies and courses is in the revisionary mode (and yes I can do that too!!!!) not only can i do that, just like all the other veterans on this board, I can do it to 200 1/2 on the peanuts with a full electrical failure.

You missed the whole point of that post, it was because he was blowing off the importance of knowing how to run a box. The more sophisticated these birds get, the less manual tuning we will be doing.

 

[400A]

No offense taken

I was at FSI when a low timer came through. Nice person but if I'm a CEO (even at a PC-infested company like most F500 companies these days) I'm not going to be too happy about my captains having to fly the airplane AND babysit lowtimers just to make the EEOC'ers in HR happy.

Oops! Did I say that out loud?TC

No foul here, I actually agree with that, even more so with something as complex as a Gulfstream doing international work. You want the best. A Gulfstream in my opinion is not the place for advanced flight instruction.

We require more time experience for the right seat of our Beechjet than they do for SIC's. I just wanted PIC's to know the opening was there.

400A

 

[westwind driver]

See here we go hot heads, I wasn't trying to get involved with all this nor will I. I was simply saying that a person shouldn't be judged by their time, but by their experience. No, I don't want to fly the shuttle or think I'm a captain (note the respectful part of what I was saying) I know my role. I have plenty of Honeywell FMS experience and at first it was a little hard and I'm still learning somethings, but being able to shoot an ILS to minimums and programming an ILS are not even related. I respect the sky and everything else within this industry and will never claim to know everything regardless of how many "thousands of hours or type ratings I have or need to have" It's that type of attitude that gets people killed.

And 400A,

I hardly ever post on this website anyway so where are you coming from?

Munky, take it from a fellow 'gear slapper' (I know you who got on my case before love hearing that out of my ;-) ) TIME has Everything to do with experience. They are both proportionate to each other. Granted, flying your Navajo in IMC at night may be a bigger learning experience than flying a G550 at altitude (FL510) for 8 hours and then shooting a CAT II/III/EVS approach.

But don't fool yourself into thinking that the pilots who fly that Gulfstream didn't once before fly a Navajo. Trust me when I say time means a lot, because generally speaking, if you have the time, you have the experience.

Kind Regards

Happy New Year to All.... good to be back after the holidays.

 

[400A]

Rof!!!

Never pass up the chance to shut your mouth.

I gotta remember that one for my 15 year old!!!! LOL

 

[Gearmunky]

Trust me when I say time means a lot, because generally speaking, if you have the time, you have the experience.

GENERALLY SPEAKING is the point I was getting at. I was just trying to make a point that a person shouldn't be judged by their time because numbers in a log book don't equal all they're thought of on paper.

Think of it like this, some guy who has flown for 15 years has 2000 hours with 1000 multi and all the other stuff. Now take that same 2000 hours and put it into a guy who's flown in all in 5 years who do you think is going to be a better pilot???? But on paper they look the same. That's all I'm getting at.

Of course the ego-maniacs have to look at it like I'm a 750 hour pilot who thinks he knows everything and I'm shooting my mouth off, in which isn't and regardless of hours will never will be true. I respect my elder pilots and can do nothing, but learn from them, but judging another pilot because of his time is a double edged sword. Low time pilots can be a lot better than expected, and high time pilots can be a lot worse. So in essence numbers aren't all what they seem to be.

 

[El Cid '95]

Gear Monkey,

You can not win. I hope that you limit this debate to anonymous chat boards and do not discuss it in person. Your points are generally correct IMO, but please keep them to yourself in person for your own good.

BTW there are many low time pilots flying supersonic fighters and jet tankers/transports. WE do not trust them or give them the benefit of the doubt on anything until they gain the experience. The most practical and BEST measure of experience is hours flown, and as you mentioned above, recency is important.

Most corporate and airline hiring folks understand the experience paradigm. An F-16 pilot with 3000 hours has 2000 sorties and all his time is PIC. This is not the same as a 3000 hour tanker pilot who did not become and aircraft commander (capt) until 1000 hours as a copilot (first officer).

Seniority is everything in aviation. Unfortunately some folks will not respect your opinions until you have triple your current hours. I'd love to see what your opinion is as you progress. Good luck.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Low time fighter guys are good at what they do,,,but Ive seen some strictly military trained pilots (especially fighter guys) have problems entering the civilian realm. Apples and oranges.

 

[mobie]

Total Time

Gear Monkey,

I have been flying for a very long time. I have never flown that perfect trip and have learned from everyone I have flown with, I hope you will do the same.

When I fly a trip that I do not learn, I will hang it up.

Mobie

 

[typhoonpilot]

Well said mobs. I'm still trying to get that perfect flight in, maybe that is why I stay in this business. Kind of like playing golf in a way. Can't seem to get it perfect for all 18 holes, but I'll keep trying .

Happy New Year !


Typhoonpilot

 

[murfdawg998]

so happened to the discussion we were having on coke and why some folks don't wanna work there?? what's so bad about them again??

 

[Gearmunky]

Gear Monkey,

I have been flying for a very long time. I have never flown that perfect trip and have learned from everyone I have flown with, I hope you will do the same.

When I fly a trip that I do not learn, I will hang it up.

Mobie

Extremely well said, I too believe the same thing. I say the same thing about my duck hunting, if your not learning your doing something wrong. Every hunting trip and every flight is different no matter how much they seem the same.

 

[bangdurmominaG4]

Gear Monkey,

You can not win. I hope that you limit this debate to anonymous chat boards and do not discuss it in person. Your points are generally correct IMO, but please keep them to yourself in person for your own good.

QUOTE]

its the internet.. why would anyone keep their opinion to themself ?