Coast Guard looking for more aviators

[sardaddy]

No gouge on that and we just got a brief on aviation personnel requirements and that wasn't a part of it.

The way we have augmented P-cola is to have contract pilots fill the slots in P-cola as needed. They don't need to do OERs, don't have to worry about getting promoted and can stay there for a while as career progression is not necessary.

A reservist would require the same currency as an active duty pilot and would still need to progress professionally so it wouldn't help much. Why would we send someone to flight school with the only plan for the pilot to train at P-cola?

 

[Capt TedStriker]

SARDADDY learn a bit about the CG would ya!?!

Why would we send someone to flight school with the only plan for the pilot to train at P-cola?

You don't think that there are any CG reservists that are already flight qualified - military trained?? Think again. I know many CG reservists that are prior FW and RW aviators with CG experience.

I think you are missing the point. And know very little about P-cola or about CG reserve.

The Navy Air Force and Marines ALL have reservists that train at P-cola.

This would be a force multiplier and would allow more AD aviators to stay doing missions that take more training/proficiency than the P-cola gig.

 

[sardaddy]

"You don't think that there are any CG reservists that are already flight qualified - military trained?? ."

I know a lot of reservists that are already CG aviators. There is however, no reserve aviation program. Why would you create that program when you could just offer them a contract like we are doing now? The pay would be the same and so would the hours. So why create reservists? I know many aviators who were reservists who came back on active duty contract as pilots. Many to P-cola as IPs.

"I think you are missing the point. And know very little about P-cola or about CG reserve."

I understood your point but you obviously jumped right past mine. If you send an active duty contract pilot to P'cola, he can continue doing that job for a long time. I know some who have done it for over eight years. A contract pilot has no fear of being passed over, he doesn't have to do OERs.

If we put a reservist in the same position, he would be expected to and expect to be promoted. What would he be promoted for? Staying on as an instructor? All Coast Guard Officers need some leadership positions to get promoted including reservists. The CG commands at P'cola are held by active Coasties. Why would they have reservists doing that? It give's the senior officer a couple of years out of the fleet to ensure the training at P'cola is still what is needed, and gives flight students a person to go to and find out what to expect in the real world.

What leadership positions would a reservist get at P'cola? As I said before, there is NO aviation component to the CG reserves. There would be no place to go but as an instructor at P'cola. Not a very well rounded officer.

"The Navy Air Force and Marines ALL have reservists that train at P-cola."

Good for them. They also have aviation reserve components other than IP's training at P'cola and augment their individual services. You are suggesting the Coast Guard create a Reserve aviation Corps that would only be used at P'cola. What a waste.

You suggest that we have aviators in the reserves now and could use them. If they are CG aviators in the CG reserve they are at least senior LTs or junior LCDRs. So we have to find those few pilots that wanted to get out after eleven years of active service(that is how much time most are at before all obligations are paid back) and joined the reserves and want to live in Pensacola. or you have to grow your own career P'cola IPs from scratch.

 

[Be 23]

Just wondering. Are the 'contract' coasties at Pcola civilian contract positions to fill the CG quota or are they reservists on an active duty tour?

 

[sardaddy]

Contract CG pilots are CG pilots who left active duty for whatever reason, retired, passed over, or simply finished their obligation and got out. Some went into the reserves (non aviation positions) and some left entirely.

At some point they decided they still wanted to get back into the Coast Guard for whatever reason or the Coast Guard called them and asked.

The pilot signed a contract to come back on active duty with the following stipulations. They come in for a contracted amount of time (a couple years at a time) at the same rank they left, do not get looked at for promotion, they do not move up in the register of officers (do not gain seniority) and do not do OERs. The time they stay on does count toward retirement.

They have the option to request reintigration into the promotion system. However, if they do that and are passed over, too bad. But I do know a few that have reintigrated and are doing fine with the caviat that their OCS/Academy classmates are O-5s being selected to O-6 while they are trying to get promoted to O-4.

I guess they are sort of like LDOs but they have no assurance of retirement.

 

[80drvr]

Not exactly....

Contract CG pilots are CG pilots who left active duty for whatever reason, retired, passed over, or simply finished their obligation and got out. Some went into the reserves (non aviation positions) and some left entirely.

At some point they decided they still wanted to get back into the Coast Guard for whatever reason or the Coast Guard called them and asked.

The pilot signed a contract to come back on active duty with the following stipulations. They come in for a contracted amount of time (a couple years at a time) at the same rank they left, do not get looked at for promotion, they do not move up in the register of officers (do not gain seniority) and do not do OERs. The time they stay on does count toward retirement.

They have the option to request reintigration into the promotion system. However, if they do that and are passed over, too bad. But I do know a few that have reintigrated and are doing fine with the caviat that their OCS/Academy classmates are O-5s being selected to O-6 while they are trying to get promoted to O-4.

I guess they are sort of like LDOs but they have no assurance of retirement.

Striker is right-you need to learn a bit more about Pensacola and the CG Reserve. Reserve officers do need to complete OERs and compete for promotion, whether on an EAD contract or not. I suppose an officer could choose not to submit much of anything for an OER if they had no ambition to advance in rank, but that would be the case anywhere, active or reserve.

Regarding the opportunity to develop leadership skills, instructing at Pensacola can offer as much or as little as an officer wants to get out of it. For evaluation purposes and career development, I don't see much difference between that and other operational jobs that are such as SAR Controller. The CG has a number of augment units at various DOD commands and they tend to generate internal collaterals and provide opportunities to excel in addition to plying their operational trade.

SELRES IPs would be a relatively easy way for the CG to retain some surge capacity in the aviation community with a relatively modest investment in training and currency. Essentially they're exercising that surge capacity as you described by placing SELRES and retirees on EAD contracts. Those folks aren't always going to be there, so reprogramming a handful of the 8100 paid SELRES billets for that capability might not be a bad idea.

Lastly, having high time SELRES IPs is good for the students. It provides a wealth of experience for them and a slightly different perspective than flying everyday with the active duty. The Navy has been doing it for as long as I can remember and I really can't find any downside to that program.

 

[sardaddy]

"Striker is right-you need to learn a bit more about Pensacola and the CG Reserve. Reserve officers do need to complete OERs and compete for promotion, whether on an EAD contract or not."

I never said reservists do not do OERs. I said contract pilots (not reserve officers) do not need to complete OERs. That is fact. I know reserve officers must complete OERs. They must complete an OER biennially. Unless they go on active duty. Then they must do one annually. That was my point. A contract pilot does not have that requirement.

"Essentially they're exercising that surge capacity as you described by placing SELRES and retirees on EAD contracts. Those folks aren't always going to be there, so reprogramming a handful of the 8100 paid SELRES billets for that capability might not be a bad idea"

If they won't be there for EAD, why would they be there as a reservist?

 

[80drvr]

I never said reservists do not do OERs. I said contract pilots (not reserve officers) do not need to complete OERs. That is fact. I know reserve officers must complete OERs. They must complete an OER biennially. Unless they go on active duty. Then they must do one annually. That was my point. A contract pilot does not have that requirement.

If they won't be there for EAD, why would they be there as a reservist?

You are talking about officers on extended active duty agreements for specific durations at Pensacola, correct? Retired recall to active duty is the only category I'm aware of that fits the criteria you describe.

In regards to your last question, I'm not sure I'm following you. Having used a range of options to put reservists on active duty (Title 10 & 14, EAD, ADSW-AC/RC, EAD, AT-OTD), there are a lot of ways for SELRES to contribute without "being there" on a long term agreements. They represent a surge capacity. If the plan is to hope that a capability is there when the need to surge arrives, circumstances may dictate otherwise. The post 9/11 downturn increased the supply of qualified pilots willing to return to active duty. That will not always be the case. A SELRES unit would institutionalize a supply of qualified individuals in the bullpen.

 

[sardaddy]

"You are talking about officers on extended active duty agreements for specific durations at Pensacola, correct? Retired recall to active duty is the only category I'm aware of that fits the criteria you describe."

That is where our miscommunication is. As I said earlier in this thread, there are many types of CG pilots that are offered active duty contracts when they are available. Retirees, CG pilots who are being put out because they were passed over for promotion, and prior CG officers/aviators who have left the CG and would like to come back on active duty. By the way, none of them do OERs.

Those in the latter category may have left the service and remained in the reserves but if they accept a contract they are no longer reservists for that time since there are no reserve aviation slots. These officers are put into the pool with all other aviators and will be sent to where they are needed. If the CG needs pilots at P'cola for a surge, that is where they go and are usually left there until they are no longer needed to cover the training "surge" Then they are sent elsewhere (rarely) or not given a contract renewal. So you have the same folks who would be looking for reserve aviation jobs taking contract jobs.

The quantity of contracts available depends on how many pilots are needed to fill a perceived gap. When the "surge" goes down so do the contracts.

From what you wrote, I think you are saying that you would have a bunch of reserve aviation folks on long term agreements to go to P'cola when needed in a "surge".

What would these pilots be doing when they are not "surging" at P'cola? They would still need to maintain semi annual flight minimums. Every service requires that of their reservist pilots. If they are not in P'cola training pilots, why would you need them?

So two questions? Where would reservists get their mins if, as you say, "there are a lot of ways for SELRES to contribute without "being there" on a long term agreements?" Where are they? Hopefully you are not suggesting they augment other air stations as that opens up a new can of worms and has already been shot down by HQ multiple times.

Second, If the CG has enough hours to fly at P'cola to maintain the mins of multiple reservists, why not use just a few active duty contracts as needed instead?

For a couple of guys who tell me I need to learn about the reserves and P'cola, you sure don't have very updated information. I get my information from multiple sources who are currently or have been either P'cola instructors, Reserve officers, pilots who are on contract, and detailers. Where do you get yours?

 

[80drvr]

"You are talking about officers on extended active duty agreements for specific durations at Pensacola, correct? Retired recall to active duty is the only category I'm aware of that fits the criteria you describe."

That is where our miscommunication is. As I said earlier in this thread, there are many types of CG pilots that are offered active duty contracts when they are available. Retirees, CG pilots who are being put out because they were passed over for promotion, and prior CG officers/aviators who have left the CG and would like to come back on active duty. By the way, none of them do OERs.

Those in the latter category may have left the service and remained in the reserves but if they accept a contract they are no longer reservists for that time since there are no reserve aviation slots. These officers are put into the pool with all other aviators and will be sent to where they are needed. If the CG needs pilots at P'cola for a surge, that is where they go and are usually left there until they are no longer needed to cover the training "surge" Then they are sent elsewhere (rarely) or not given a contract renewal. So you have the same folks who would be looking for reserve aviation jobs taking contract jobs.

The quantity of contracts available depends on how many pilots are needed to fill a perceived gap. When the "surge" goes down so do the contracts.

From what you wrote, I think you are saying that you would have a bunch of reserve aviation folks on long term agreements to go to P'cola when needed in a "surge".

What would these pilots be doing when they are not "surging" at P'cola? They would still need to maintain semi annual flight minimums. Every service requires that of their reservist pilots. If they are not in P'cola training pilots, why would you need them?

So two questions? Where would reservists get their mins if, as you say, "there are a lot of ways for SELRES to contribute without "being there" on a long term agreements?" Where are they? Hopefully you are not suggesting they augment other air stations as that opens up a new can of worms and has already been shot down by HQ multiple times.

Second, If the CG has enough hours to fly at P'cola to maintain the mins of multiple reservists, why not use just a few active duty contracts as needed instead?

For a couple of guys who tell me I need to learn about the reserves and P'cola, you sure don't have very updated information. I get my information from multiple sources who are currently or have been either P'cola instructors, Reserve officers, pilots who are on contract, and detailers. Where do you get yours?

The crux of the debate is whether there is any value in having selected reservist billets at Pensacola like the other services do. I obviously believe there is and you apparently think otherwise.

I contend that reprogramming 11 of 8100 SELRES billets to Pensacola for IP duties would be a prudent move. The CG does not pay for IP flight time, it is relatively easy to stay current in training command while at the same time providing significant production, and it would retain a ready pool of qualified aviators who could be placed on one of a number of flavors of active duty orders should the need arise. It wouldn't preclude the CG from offering contracts, yet it would give them the ability to acquire similar capabilities without encumbering FTE quotas. The only added cost is the incremental ACIP those billets would require relative to a non aviation SELRES billet.

If it's such a bad idea, someone ought to tell the other services, who are apparently doing it with great success.

I'll spare the flightinfo readers an escalation of the OER debate because it likely boils down to debating semantics and types of OERs, which isn't really material in a debate about the pros and cons of reserve IPs.

I'm getting my information from a former VT instructor and a Sector Senior Reserve Officer I know very well.