CNN: Pilots accused of being drunk indicted

[pipers]

Interesting........

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/08/indicted.pilots/index.html

 

[greenpickle]

Second lesson

Call me paranoid....

Of course there is a main lesson to learn here but the second lesson is dont use your credit card. I hate those things. They are the big brother. I use cash for everything when I fly. You slide off a runway somewhere after a 0500 show and the next thing you know you got some lawyer showing you buying Advil from the next door gas station at 2:00 AM and arguing that you must have been fatiqued and sick when you had your incident.(contributing factors they will say). This could go for movies, pizza delivery, etc... Cash is the answer.

I am not paranoid, I just think it makes good sense.... I gotta go, I think someone is watching me.

GP

 

[satpak77]

you can indict a ham sandwich

if you want

I doubt this case will result in a conviction, criminal-wise. These poor mopes already lost their licenses and I believe their jobs.

Flying DUI (again allegedly) is wrong wrong wrong and I am not defending it, however, from a legal standpoint, I doubt they will be convicted of any crimes hear.

 

[CRJ puppy]

I'm sorry but what the h*ll does using a credit card have to do with being videotaped drinking 6 hours prior to report?

I'm confused!

Perhaps I need a drink...oh wait, I'm still in uniform!

 

[gear_guy]

The only crime I see here is the fact that they paid $142 for 30 beers and some snacks, JK. Gees! I wonder if he thought, "I don't want to get noticed here, so I better limit my tab to 30 beers. And furthermore I'll only buy for 5 other people." Ah the stupidity!

On a side note...True story....I was at an FBO one time and there was a sign on the refrigerator that said, "NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED IN THE REFRIGERATOR! Unless you are an AWA pilot." I gotta good laugh outa that one.

 

[satpak77]

well

if Capt paid cash it would have been alot harder to "put him" in the bar that night. Also, without credit card receipts, the defense attorney can spin the story a lot easier.

Capt's wallet likely seized at post-arrest processing and his credit cards Xeroxed by the investigators.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why this case is important....

This case matters to you because we pilots operate our airplanes under Federal Law. The State of Florida has been trying to establish control over aviation operations, going back to their criminal prosecutions following the Val U Jet crash.

Federal investigators find their work hampered by the the criminalization of aviation accidents and incidents. After all, we operate in a voluntary system. Who would fill out a NASA form, or give a thorough statement to an NTSB investigator if they thought their cooperation would result in their indictment?

These pilots have paid their price under Federal law. They lost everything. Their Certificates were revoked and they were fired. ALPA has not paid a penny of their defense costs and never attempted to get their jobs back. They are funding a case on its way to the US Supreme Court out of their pockets, which is a six, to seven, figure effort.

Now, they are being pursued by politically motivated State's attorneys who realize that an aviation case is "sexy" and might make enough headlines to further their political careers.

These guys screwed up, no doubt about it. But, the State of Florida is way out of line by trying to claim State drunk driving laws apply to the operation of an aircraft.

And before you think "this will never happen to me" - consider all the times you go through airport security and how often you see a friendly local cop standing by. Now consider that this friendly cop ( with no training in aviation matetrs, or the FAR's ) might decide to take away your Certificate for some alleged violation of a local ordinance that you knew nothing about....

We pilots use our airplanes to fly across the nation, in pursuit of inter-state commerce. This should surely be a case of Federal preemption, or the FAA and NTSB might as well pack up and go home.

~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

if Capt paid cash it would have been alot harder to "put him" in the bar that night. Also, without credit card receipts, the defense attorney can spin the story a lot easier.

Capt's wallet likely seized at post-arrest processing and his credit cards Xeroxed by the investigators.

This is not an issue. The Pilots did not fight their fate under the FAA's revocation of their Certificates.

What is at issue, is whether the State, in addition to Federal administrators, can pursue additional charges against these pilots.

ALPA should be providing assistance to these pilots, as should AOPA and every other organization with the smarts to realize what the loss of this case means.

For example.... I went kayaking in the San Juan Islands. My guide said her husband was the local sheriff and they did not like Paul Allen flying his helicopter on to Friday Harbor ( an island, on his property ). She told me her husband was going to stop this helicopter flying since they had passed a local ordinance that helicopters could only land at airports.

I explained to her that the whole point of having a helicopter is so that a person could land away from airports. Also, how would a pilot know that the town of Friday Harbor had passed a "law" restricting flight operations?

We can not allow local jurisdictions to begin regulating aviation. If we do, just about every airport will become a Wal Mart. I've been involved in cases where plaintiffs believed the Lexington, KY, airport should be shut down because horses don't have sex when airplanes fly over.

Believe me, turning the locals loose on airports is not a good thing.

 

[Looking4Traffic]

State Interest in Prosecution

Your arguments are well articulated but I disagree with your assertion that Florida has no compelling state interest in prosecution of these pilots. I also believe that this situation is vastly different then when local governments try to regulate airport operations.

When these pilots got out of their cockpit and headed into a Florida bar, they were guests of the State of Florida and, like any other person within the geographic borders of Florida, were compelled to abide by the laws of the State. They cannot hide behind a wall of Federal Jurisdiction simply because they intended to put on epaulets early the next morning.

Put alcohol aside for a moment. If, rather then being under the influence of alcohol, one of the pilots had struck and killed a boarding passenger because the passenger made some snide remark about the airline, would we just take the perpetrator's pilot license away and call it a day? Would the State of Florida not be entitled to charge the pilot with the homicide? Of course not -- because the State of Florida is legally entitled to protect persons currently within its borders and prosecute those who harm or threaten to harm those persons.

These pilots did not kill one Florida passenger, they threatened to kill more then 100 of them by an incomprehensible act of narcisistic stupidity. We're not talking about a couple of 18-year old kids here -- were talking about two mature, grown men who made a conscious and deliberate choice -- too assume control of a large, commercial airliner, capable of injuring or killing hundreds of people while legally under the influence of alcohol.

There act was criminal. Since the crime took place in Florida, that State should have personal and subject-matter jurisdiction to prosecute the perpetrators, irrespective of the civil and/or regulatory penalties imposed by the FAA.

 

[350DRIVER]

ALPA should be providing assistance to these pilots, as should AOPA and every other organization with the smarts to realize what the loss of this case means.

AOPA?! You have got to be fukcing kidding me? This organization is a complete and absolute joke and what in the hell are they going to be able to do here? Yeah, that is what I thought. General aviation is a tad different from the airline world. I must say that they did one hell of a good job at the "closed down airport" in Chicago. Money well spent.... ! !

ALPA is on this as they should be... This one is far far from over but agree or disagree the State of Florida and Feds. will most definitely make an example of these two, you can bet your sweet as$ on this one.

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