CNN: Pilots accused of being drunk indicted

[Looking4Traffic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by satpak77
I appreciate your posts, but, uh, I think I am just a little closer to the legal process than you are.....nothing more needed to be said


I'm not sure what this means -- you're a lawyer or a busted pilot?

If it's the former, than no, you're not any closer. If it's the later, good luck to you and I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. Best of luck.

 

[Resume Writer]

I am not going to get into a debate about whether or not these two had been drinking, as I was not there. When another AWA Captain came up to me at a Diamondbacks game the day this happened and told me two pilots had been busted for drinking, he could not remember who it was. Trust me, these two NEVER entered my mind.

From what I have been told, the aircraft was never released from the tug and tow bar, so the a/c was not under their command (if I understand the regulations right). Further, when these two asked to have a blood alcohol test, apparently it was not administered to them. (I cannot tell you how I know this, I just do.) They did, at least, have the fortitude to take off their pilot uniforms before the press got there.

Have they put a "black mark" on other pilots because of this? Yes. But let's let them have their day in court and be judged. I have flown with the Captain many times and he was always the utmost professional. I consider him a friend and have watched the toll this has taken on him and his family. However, I will say that if he indeed was drinking within the 8 hours (AWA is 12 hours), then something needs to be done.

I know for myself, I always took the 12 hour rule very seriously. When flights crews have the lives of passengers at stake, whether it be pilots or FA's, they have no business drinking inside the allocated time limits.

As the saying goes - live as if you are going to be found out, because you always will.

Kathy

 

[Resume Writer]

blzr-

By the way, you can get a dui in a parked car as long as the keys are in the ignition.

Let me take this one further. My mother is an ex DPS officer, as well as my dad, who is an ex PHX PD Officer. If the keys are anywhere you can reach them, you can be charged with DUI. So, putting them on the floor board, or dropping them just outside the car is not good enough.

However, people should not be drinking and driving. Call a cab if you are that drunk. I do not want to be on the receiving end of someone out of control in a vehicle that has been drinking.

Kathy

 

[blzr]

technically they were out of control... for the state of FLA, but below out of control on the federal level.

I just hate hearing they were flying under the influence when they weren't. Doesn't mean they weren't going to, just that they weren't.

We all make mistakes, we just don't always get caught.

 

[satpak77]

official press release

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/fls/formeramerwestpilots.html

charged with....

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/342.html


interestingly....

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/343.html

and did they meet the .10 standard, outlined in federal code?

....I mean, they are being prosecuted under the above code, so they must fulfill the minimum threshold for whatever crime XXXX code defines, no?

If the state hunting law says I cant shoot more than 5 deer in one day, and I shoot 3, they cant prosecute me for "the 5 deer rule"

?!?!?!?!?

alleged BAC level

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/05/pilots.hearing/


HMMMMMM

people, its not over till the fat lady sings

 

[CatYaaak]

Thats not a valid argument. A homocide has nothing to do with aviation and is against state law. Aviation is FEDERALLY regulated. End of story.

I agree they comitted a crime. But Florida has no right to prosecute. QUOTE]

I'm no legal expert, but it seems to me that just because an activity is federally regulated doesn't automatically follow that a state can't prosecute for what it deems to be a criminal acts when they're are commited outside what the Fed regs allow.

What you're suggesting is that we aquire some sort of State diplomatic immunity just because we're involved in aviation, or commit the act in question while sitting in/using an an airplane, to include threatening lives through willful acts. Ladder warning-labeling is also federally-regulated, but you're not immune from State prosecution if you try and bash someone's head in with an incorrectly-manufactured one.

If memory serves (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the FAR incident NWA pilots were prosecuted under Minnesota state law regarding being intoxicated while engaged in interstate commerce. I don't think it resulted in jail time, but I don't think there was a successful challenge to the State having the right to prosecute either...in other words, perhaps not convicted, but not immune.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What you're suggesting is that we aquire some sort of State diplomatic immunity just because we're involved in aviation, or commit the act in question while sitting in/using an an airplane, to include threatening lives through willful acts.

(someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Federal Law preempts State law. It makes no sense for the States to regulate aviation because airplanes operate across State lines. Would you like to have Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin Pilot's Certificates to go from Sun n Fun to Oshkosh? How about changing the definitions of airspace from State to State so you could learn the limitations of each territory for your Private license? ( Just wait until States figure out how to tax airplanes flying overhead )

A federal enactment may preempt state law either through (1) express statutory preemption; (2) implied preemption where the intent of the federal law is to occupy the field exclusively ("field preemption"); or (3) implied preemption where state and federal law actually conflict ("conflict preemption"). See Lorillard Tobacco Co. v. Reilly, 533 U.S. 525, 121 S. Ct. 2404, 2414 (2001); Crosby v. National Foreign Trade Council, 530 U.S. 363, 372-73 (2000); English v. General Elec. Co., 496 U.S. 72, 78-79 (1990). Conflict preemption may be found where the state law frustrates the purpose of the federal statutory scheme or where compliance with both the state and federal laws is physically impossible. See Crosby, 530 U.S. at 372-73; Geier v. American Honda Motor Co., Inc., 529 U.S. 861, 873 (2000); English, 496 U.S. at 79.

Local governments without aviation expertise, or training, should not try to expand their power into aviation. As pilots we should flight against this encroachment that threatens to reduce our freedom to operate aircraft and which reduces the high standards of aviation safety we enjoy in the United States under the National Transportation Safety Board and Federal Aviation Administration.

 

[Dr. B]

Drunk Pilots

Isn't stripping them of their licenses enough? They can never fly a plane again. That, and a stiff fine should be enough. No property was damaged and nobody was even hurt.

 

[satpak77]

Federal Law preempts State law. It makes no sense for the States to regulate aviation because airplanes operate across State lines. Would you like to have Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin Pilot's Certificates to go from Sun n Fun to Oshkosh? How about changing the definitions of airspace from State to State so you could learn the limitations of each territory for your Private license? ( Just wait until States figure out how to tax airplanes flying overhead )

very nice post, good

now, could you provide your own opinion now that we have the 18 USC 342 presumptions defined, which as .10 BAC?

these two guys did not meet .10 BAC.


thats why I think it was important to get it out of state court (.08 BAC), now its in federal, (.10 BAC), where it SHOULD die

you can indict a ham sandwich

 

[~~~^~~~]

Satpak :

I'm not saying these two should be indicted at all. Pragmatically, they should have called in sick and taken the Company's sanction. But, they didn't. They also closed the cabin door, which was an important distinction in the case. They were performing as pilots, even though they never disconnected from the tug.

Lyle Prouse and his crew actually flew a leg. I guess they are fortunate their destination was not in Florida.

The State of Florida has been eager to prosecute pilots and other aviation professionals since before the Val U Jet crash. They have appealed the Fed. District Court ruling in this case and have stated an intention to follow it through to the US Sup. Ct. That is their right as long as the taxpayers will stand for it.

IMHO all pilots should discourage this sort of State grandstanding.

So now a State's attorney has compelled the Feds to take action. What a shame.

~~~^~~~