CMR Crash CVR released.

[UM#1]

Heres the complete transcripts in Full from entering the cockpit til the CVR loses power. Very sad, may they all RIP.

Comair5191 CVR transcripts

 

["GO AROUND"]

Flew with an ALPA investigator and there is a lot of blame to throw around on this one.

The airport was approved to build a parking garage that obstructs the view from the tower of those runways. You can't see it even if you were looking. Paved over lines and numerous light outages.

Jepp plates that didn't show the changes at the time or even weeks after the accident.

Why it took so long for the fire trucks to get to the accident scene? Went to end of wrong runway first and then refused on the radio to tower to go through grass and fence the a/c went through to get to the accident scene. A lot of lost time getting to the scene.

The pilots will take the ultimate blame, but only about a quarter of the total blame. The FAA, airport and Jepps will take the rest.

 

[Piper877]

Heres the complete transcripts in Full from entering the cockpit til the CVR loses power. Very sad, may they all RIP.

Comair5191 CVR transcripts

Here's an alternate link in case that one stops working for whatever reason.

I found it interesting that the news stories took phrases out of context to make it look like the pilots were hypocrites or not paying attention.

An example is the phrase where the FO is talking about how he always likes to double check before he makes a big decision and/or jumps into a situation. What he was really talking about was moving to the Middle East to fly for Emirates or some such company. Not about making major decisions in the airplane. Also "Whoa" was not the final word on the transcript. It continues for a few more seconds. I hate the media sometimes.

http://gray.ftp.clickability.com/wvltwebftp/pdf/comair.pdf

 

[WSurf]

Air Wiskey started doing this on the Before Takeoff Checklist in 2003 I think. Last line in the checklist "DG's.......Aligned"

Any other RJ operators do this? This procedure was to prevent EFIS COMP MONS on the roll and to verify heading with runway alignment. ORD was terrible for drifting dg's on the ground with magnetic interference.

PDT had the PF with runway alignment, PM had the tower heading or whatever SID head set before crash!
After the Comair crash we have to confirm runway alignment right before T/O!!
Good thing I think! God rest all there souls!!!!!!!z

 

[CitationLover]

Eagle has a DG alignment both holding short and in position on the runway for the CRJ. This was in position before the Comair accident.

 

[nimtz]

ABC News just completely b@stardized the CVR recording to 'sex it up' on the whole 'confused cockpit thing'! I know I shouldn't get worked up about this stuff, but this report just irked me. Wonder how these POS reporters would feel about having their office bugged and ever intimate detail of their daily life put on record. Man if I ever meet an 'aviation safety expert' employed by a major news network I'll pimp slap the mf...

 

[DiverDriver]

I am putting myself in that cockpit thinking about the conversation and I can see this happening. The impression I get from the CVR was that the FO was head down doing a checklist while the CA turned on the wrong runway. Then, as they accelerated the CA was head down watching engine instruments as thrust was set and airspeed accelerated. He called 100 knots. Is this standard at Comair? I thought 80 knots was standard but it could be different at each airline I guess. It seemed to happen very fast. The CA was head down and right at the moment of rotation they ran off the runway. No time to react or comprehend fully what was happening. I would like to see the FDR animation or at least find out if thrust was thrown all the way up right after running off the pavement. Not that I think I could have done it just wondering. I bet there was a lot of surprise in that scene.

God rest all their souls.

 

[The_Russian]

ABC News just completely b@stardized the CVR recording to 'sex it up' on the whole 'confused cockpit thing'! I know I shouldn't get worked up about this stuff, but this report just irked me. Wonder how these POS reporters would feel about having their office bugged and ever intimate detail of their daily life put on record. Man if I ever meet an 'aviation safety expert' employed by a major news network I'll pimp slap the mf...

I just saw that too. Very unprofessional.

 

[s3jetman]

dont know if anyone thought of this or not, but as i read the trans i was trying to think about how to improve to make it safer for all. not an absolute blame nor am i balming anyone but what are your opinons on ATC being requried to give you a heading as opposed to just "fly runway heading". if this policy was implemented it could prevent accidents such as this in the future. something like comair fly heading 220 climb altitude may have brought up a question as to thier present heading for departure? just a thought wanted to see what you think and get some sugestions on improving the safety for all crewmembers and passengers.

 

[bizzum]

dont know if anyone thought of this or not, but as i read the trans i was trying to think about how to improve to make it safer for all. not an absolute blame nor am i balming anyone but what are your opinons on ATC being requried to give you a heading as opposed to just "fly runway heading". if this policy was implemented it could prevent accidents such as this in the future. something like comair fly heading 220 climb altitude may have brought up a question as to thier present heading for departure? just a thought wanted to see what you think and get some sugestions on improving the safety for all crewmembers and passengers.

I never really thought about that before, but I think that is a really good idea, It would add NO workload to the tower guy, the only thing would be is that if they turned 220 into the heading indicator and thought they needed to make a turn after takeoff.....

 

[s3jetman]

good catch bizman

okay correct that to "comair fly runway heading 220 cleared for t/O" maybe if they were requried to include the runway heading with instructions to fly runway heading. thanks for the imput

 

[imacdog]

He called 100 knots. Is this standard at Comair?

Yes, that's the standard call here.

 

[DiverDriver]

Yes, that's the standard call here.

Ahhh... ok thanks. Not sure that it matters but does anyone have an opinion on making it 80 knots rather than 100 because you will spend less time head down waiting for the call as Pilot Not Flying?

There is no one panasea answer here. I think all suggestion might be good ones if they are offered with the intent to help.

 

[Tarzan]

I always keep one thing in mind everytime an airplane makes a smoking hole in the ground... It could happen to me too. What these guys did, anybody could have made that mistake. (But if you think you're above that sort of thing, I wouldn't want to fly with you.)

Let's just learn from it. Too many lives lost in other events just to discount it because you "know" you're a better pilot than that.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Ahhh... ok thanks. Not sure that it matters but does anyone have an opinion on making it 80 knots rather than 100 because you will spend less time head down waiting for the call as Pilot Not Flying?

There is no one panasea answer here. I think all suggestion might be good ones if they are offered with the intent to help.

80 or 100, as long as aviation exists, there will be accidents. Accidents are never intentional and safety is no accident.