CL300 Sets speed record

[cforst513]

Well, since you asked.
Yes, the X CAN takeoff from CRQ and fly the same mission with 8 pax and bags, and about 50 kts faster (zero wind) and land 1000# over reserve fuel.

What Bombardier didn't disclose is the pax weight (are we talking 8 highschool cheerleaders or 8 NFL linebackers?) Baggage wt, etc. Also, did they use mph/sm instead of nm/kts?

Their ave ground speed was only 497 kts. The X's avg TAS is 525 kts.

Let's see the CL300 beat the X's record from SAN-CHS in 2:55

i think someone should slap some SR-71 Blackbird engines on the CL300 and see how long it takes to go from Cali to Maine....

 

[FraxJockey]

O.k.

I stand corrected. Of course you would have to fly fast because not many could stand to be in the cabin for too much longer. Just kidding... On a serious note, what cruise speed are we talking about? and at what altitude? They did .83 at F410 the whole way. They didn't go to F450 and take advantage of any additional winds or temps. The pax load I believe was with 4 adults and 4 kids and their bags. The point here is I am sure the X can do it as you stated , but at what speed? They landed with over 3000# of fuel...in real world terms thats about 1:45 of "extra" fuel. Where the CL300 pulls ahead is the DOC...and the acquisition costs are less ($18 million a copy for a CL300) I am not a salesman so don't ask me any figures just clarifying things up. We have been getting X and Hawker owners come over from Netjets but I imagine we have been losing some as well so its a neutral point.

 

[miles otoole]

It looks like the cabin is what, about 50- 60% LARGER in the 300? If that's the case, why the F%*& would anyone consider a X?

 

[ultrarunner]

...snip..They did .83 at F410 the whole way. They didn't go to F450 and take advantage of any additional winds or temps....

That's because:

#1. Winds would likely be LESS at 450

#2. TAS would be LESS

#3. Temps would likely be the SAME.

They were at the 'best case' altitude.

It's all about marketing. All the stuff they published is exactly true at the exact moment they did it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Smart folks see it for what it is. Those less smart don't know any better or differenty.

 

[NJA Capt]

On a serious note, what cruise speed are we talking about? and at what altitude? They did .83 at F410 the whole way.

The flight planner I used only had .86 and .92 settings. I used .86 @ 410 ISA

The pax load I believe was with 4 adults and 4 kids and their bags. The point here is I am sure the X can do it as you stated , but at what speed? They landed with over 3000# of fuel...in real world terms thats about 1:45 of "extra" fuel.

Using 4 adults/4 kids, I think the CX would run max cruise the whole way. The flight planning guide shows 2400nm and 11000# fuel (including taxi, clmb,desc, IFR resv at FL410 with (5) 200# pax.
Sounds like they are pretty closely matched (aside from max speed )

 

[NJA Capt]

why the ...would anyone consider a X?

I guess enough reasons for us to sell 70 CXs

 

[GVFlyer]

I guess enough reasons for us to sell 70 CXs

You guys have ordered 20 more CE-750's for a total of 90!

GV

 

[FraxJockey]

Personal choice

Only time will tell how well the CL300 will do in the market place. As far as I now though, there is nothing in the marketplace right now with a similar cabin and asking price (more like $17.5-18 million in current $$) that has its capabilities. The only other "competition" right now is the G200 and there is NO comparison there. It all boils down to personal choice. If you want speed spend $20 million on a CE750 if you want comfort spend $18 million on a CL30.

 

[miles otoole]

It's all about marketing. All the stuff they published is exactly true at the exact moment they did it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Smart folks see it for what it is. Those less smart don't know any better or differenty.

Exactly-who do you think makes the decision on what a/c to buy? The pilots? Heck no. I would guess most of these potential buyers are very intelligent, yet very aviation ignorant. Why do you think the charter brokers are so successful? "We can do exactly what the frax companies can do, but for 30% cheaper. Just don't mind the 400 hour part time CFI sitting in the right seat." Digging a little more into the financial details-anyone know where to find typical resale values?

 

[Hawkered]

There is a massive upgrade class in the X program just around the corner. In fact, so many, that they will have to split the training so as not to jam the simulator slots. Rumor has it that they are at least 43 X crews short!

 

[capt_zman]

We just bought 3 CL300's. Cabin is huge, cockpit is huge, avionics are incredible, mx is projected to be much lower than our Hawkers and GIV, 3100 nm range, and all at a DOC of a Hawker. Going over the numbers last night, looks like this airplane (for our purposes) is going to obsolete our GIV. Incredible.

With all things considered, there was no comparison between the CL300 and the X or G200, especially at 17mil a pop.

 

[miles otoole]

It's all about marketing. All the stuff they published is exactly true at the exact moment they did it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Smart folks see it for what it is. Those less smart don't know any better or differenty.

Marketing has nothing to do with intelligence in actuality. That's why Warren Buffet sees a need to spend millions to push the NJ name on the golf channel, horse races, et al. You think the typical prospective owner doesn't "know any better?" Buffett knows what he's doing. There aren't too many people who will say, "You know what, if it's good for Davis Love III, it's good for me." Heck, these people spend circles around the PGA, save for Tiger Woods. My marketing classes would tell me that the purpose of this "speed record" advertisement is simply to drive awareness along the lines of "Heck, that's a long way from a pretty short runway at a pretty high rate of speed. I thought the CX was the only really high performance plane out there. Maybe I need to give the 300 a looksie."

 

[LXJ31]

I do not want to be involved in another bulletin board chest bumping match, but I have a little insight on this.

I fly a 300, its a smart airplane and I really enjoy it.

The trip was conducted in conjunction with the San Diego Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. I believe some of our owners are involved with supporting that organization. A couple of the people on board were diabetic kids with their fathers. Also aboard were Flexjet representatives and a reporter. So I think the pax makeup was 6 adults and 2 kids, full load of bags.

The Citation X is a fine aircraft, no doubt about it.

The 300 shines in passenger (and pilot!) comfort and short-field performance but would never beat the Citation X in a footrace. After all, .83 mach is pretty good but its not .92 mach.

Whats the X fuel burn at .92 cruise? I've never flown one but always wanted to know.

 

[El Chupacabra]

There is a massive upgrade class in the X program just around the corner. In fact, so many, that they will have to split the training so as not to jam the simulator slots. Rumor has it that they are at least 43 X crews short!

Upgrade? We have nearly twice as many Captains as SICs... Maybe many newhires will go to the X.

 

[GVFlyer]

Exactly-who do you think makes the decision on what a/c to buy? The pilots? Heck no.

Well actually, yes. Chief pilots and Aviation Directors are so influential in determining the purchase of Gulfstreams that the company does much to accomodate them. There is a Customer Advisory Board, an Aviation Managers and Pilots seminar at Workshop and much customer golf.

Also, the sales executives normally approach a company through it's aviation department as opposed to going in at the Chief Financial Officer level as NetJets and others commonly do.

GV