Civil Air Patrol

[Dot_AK]

thanks for all the replies, people!

I guess the CAP must be kinda different in the lower 48 - went to my second meeting tonight, and have yet to run into any hardcore military-wannabes. Seems mostly ex-military and working pilots. Heck, most of the grumbling I heard tonight was about the hot summer, and how early this year crevasses started opening on the glaciers, cutting the season short for flying in climbers to the usual spots.

There's a lot of paperwork - reminds me not-so-fondly of when I was an army brat. But tonight they even had a short "safety talk" where and ATC guy came over and tried to convince everyone that it would make his job much nicer and easier when searching for planes through the records if people would request a dicrete code instead of squawking 1200, which turned into a discussion on how the codes were assigned and why. Next week will be on mountain winds.

Even if I don't really get to fly much with them for a while, it's still really interesting to learn about what's done and how after they're sure you're missing. I look forward to training to be a spotter.

Feel free to keep on commenting; I'm still quite curious what it's like elsewhere!

- Dot_AK

 

[typhoonpilot]

Zeek:

Next time that you are " laughing your ass off " you might just stop a minute and go talk to the old gentlemen wearing the flight suit with the grade of LTC on his shoulder. Chances are pretty good he was a pilot in World War II or Korea or that he has been flying for fifty years and has a whole bunch of interesting stories to tell.

I've met some of the most fascinating people from my involvement in Civil Air Patrol.

Sad really, how you let all that wisdom and experience pass by you without getting the chance to chat with someone because of pre-conceived notions.

Typhoonpilot

 

[Veronaut]

I was a CAP cadet back in junior high/high school, & had a great time. I will second (or third) some of the responses about finding the right squadron.

Just the other day I was departing my home airport when an aircraft called the tower in distress with an "engine failure." Tower asked me if I could fly to the distressed aircraft, which of course I did. We (my CFI & I, I'm working on my CFI) didn't get there until the aircraft had made a successful off airport landing, but it made me feel good that there are other pilots (one other aircraft in the area searched as well) who are willing to go to the aid of a fellow aviator.

I sincerely hope that if I ever need emergency assistance that the LTC in tennis shoes & those like him will be there to respond. In fact, the whole incident above has renewed my interest to volunteer for the CAP again.

'naut

 

[bobbysamd]

CAP Uniforms

"because they see the LTC rank on his flight suit and don't notice that he is wearing CAP wings and tennis shoes"

I've got nothing against the CAP, but as an old retired USAF fart, I'd be very embarressed to be seen with most CAP adult members when they are in uniform. Very few of them meet the very high dress, appearance, and fittness standards of the active force.

I recognize that they are a civilian volunteer orgainization and do good work. Why do they need to wear USAF type uniforms? Couldn't they fly their missions in civilian clothes?

I recall that the CAP Corporation's insurance dictated the uniform requirement for aircrews. Maybe, also, because CAP is sponsered by the AF.

The uniform is part of the public image CAP tries to portray as a professional organization, and members who are out of uniform injure that image. I tried to wear my uniforms well because I was proud of being a member. Most members I knew felt the same way. I think the "old boy" image portrayed by out-of-uniform members is a turn-off to many would-be members. Once more, the quality of the unit seems to dictate the quality of the CAP experience.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Well Typhoon boyz- if you can't be an athlete - be an athletic supporter- and remember - the really bright white tennis shoes look the best with the flight suit- I can sleep well at night knowing that a buch of band fags are standing vanguard against enemies both foregin and domestic- flying their Armed Cessna 182 "RG"- - it should be illegal for you guys to wear a military uniform with insignia that looks anything like ours- you do a dishonor to us that really do put our lives on the line for our country ---you are wasting federal funds on an old fat boy - coulda woulda shoulda - flying club-- Z

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, Zeek. It's sad to see someone judging 5,000 people by one pair of tennis shoes.

Tell me something, though. I see you have an ATR type rating. What personal failing of yours made it necessary for you to seek employment at a "regional" carrier while most ex-military pilots were going directly to the majors?

 

[alvin]

Well I turned in my paperwork last night...

Thanks to everyone (most everyone) that posted here and to my PM's last week looking for info. (Bobbysamd, Typhoon1244, Hercdrvr)

I've joined a new composite squadron, so we are starting from scratch and I get to help shape the personality of the unit. Out of the 12 senior members we have, I am the 3rd pilot. I've already met some great people, Doctors, lawyers, preachers, and teachers....

To Zeek......I did my time as a ground pounder and armor crew. I played football, but was also in the band, and choir, Oh my god, I've even been in a barbershop quartet and community theatre as an adult.. I'm even one of "management types" that gets to tell lots of people what to do. I'm too old to go back into the NG or Res, I love to fly and I love to share my love of flight with the kids. I've got 25 yrs of life experience since college and It's my turn to give some back. I will take my volunteer duty very serious. And if you should happen to need the CAP’s services one day, you better hope It's me that comes, because I will get you out no matter what your mouth runs.. SO fire at me if you can climb out of your hole.


Alvin

 

[TXCAP4228]

JimNTexas wrote:

I've got nothing against the CAP, but as an old retired USAF fart, I'd be very embarressed to be seen with most CAP adult members when they are in uniform. Very few of them meet the very high dress, appearance, and fittness standards of the active force.

Jim, some of us young current CAP farts are also embarassed to be seen around CAP members who reflect poorly on their uniforms - and on their organization.

Just so you know, the CAP equivalent to 35-10 is CAPR 39-1. We have to meet grooming, weight and appearance standards to wear the USAF style uniform. For those of us that do - ex-military or not - we try to take it very seriously.

Do me a favor, next time you see a CAP officer somewhere who is not wearing the uniform to your standards, say something to them and then email me their name - I'll take care of that problem personally.

Zeke, every organization has high speed people and low speed people - and what I said to JimNTexas goes for you too - if you see somebody that doesn't meet the standards, let me know. NOW, I'll say to you that when you acknowledge that you're a member of the armed services, your comments in this public forum also represent the service. Try to keep that in mind next time you decide to say something offensive.

Kind of hard to set a good example when you're showing your a$$.

 

[XJAVRO]

zeek,

you're army, that says everything, you couldn't get into a real service.

I've been a member of CAP for 10 years, and I'm a former military pilot. Most of us in my wing are former military, and or current airline pilots. Yes, there are some wannabes, but most of us have been there.

We provide a great service for the tax payer. it costs us $35 an hour to run a SAR mission per acft, it costs the USAF $2500 an hour which is more cost effective. We provide many other services you don't know about, and we do this on our own time, and spend our own money.

next time you see the old guy in the flightsuit maybe you should thank him, and not laugh at him.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I dont mean to be offensive but from what Ive seen of CAP zeek hit the nail on the head.

 

[wil]

Well "Z" I'm glad to see you made the educational req. for Army flight training- Highschool Diploma! You are a shining example of the "one". Every organization has that "one" goof, idiot, a-hole, and you are that one. I for one was not able to serve due to injuries sustained from a car accident in college(plates and screws in the head and hip) but I was able to go the civilian route to pursue a flying career. And, I would like help kids and society in my spare time- should I not join? Am I now a wannabe too? I think you had better ratchet down that ego before life does it for you!! God bless and fly safe- Wil

 

[Clearsky]

Members don't have a choice concerning the uniform. They certainly don't sign up for the "uniform".

The uniform is determined by the Air Force. I didn't like the similiar uniform or the whole saluting thing.

I'm not sure how anyone can be against volunteer work especially because of a "uniform" issue.

 

[Chunk]

Be considered "active duty" was also very patriotic. Another good thing was talking to younger kids, 4-10, who actually thought you were in the military.

I think this about sums up what bothers a lot of folks about CAP. "Being considered active duty" and "talking to younger kids who thought you were in the military"....guess what...YOU ARE NOT IN THE MILITARY! The C in CAP stands for CIVIL.

I am glad the CAP exists to find errant ELTs and the saves they get. Have fun and thanks for volunteering your time. I do not think they should get ONE FRIGGIN' TAXDOLLAR. I was a cadet as a teenager and the waste was blatant and obvious, even to a 15-yr old.

Is there a significant dork factor? I don't think anyone is going to argue against that. Should they be wearing the uniform? If the AF says so, the dude fits in it, go for it. Don't expect anyone but the uninformed to give you the same respect as active duty folks get (and should get).

And stop spending my taxdollars!

Chunk

 

[Typhoon1244]

Zeek,

I was in CAP as a cadet from '84 to '90. (In '87 I helped locate the remains of a C-141 crew that smashed into a ridge in east Tennessee.) I graduated from college in '93, joined the Army, got out in '96, went to FlightSafety, then an airline. Don't tell me what wars I did or didn't want to go to. I missed them altogether.

I've never flown a 172RG, and I've never worn tennis shoes with any uniform (with the exception of Army PT's).

An officer is more than just the missions he's performed, he's also a person with flaws and virtues. I'm sure you did many very heroic, very impressive things during your Army service. The fact that you're also an as_hole prevents most of us from giving you the respect you would otherwise deserve.

You've made it very clear what you are, a dumb jock who reached his peak on a football field in high school...and that's all you'll ever be. Please, stop posting now. You're an embarassment to the Army I hold so dear.

 

[TXCAP4228]

CAP

Zeek, you don't get it but that's ok. I can live with that.

1) CAP memebers do not get paid for what they do, they're all volunteers - and ALL OF THEM have other full time jobs.

2) I will not get into a comparison of the CAP vs. the Military, but CAP carried bombs and sank submarines during WW2, CAP towed aerial gunnery targets for the Army Air Corps and the USAF, CAP currently flies something like 85% of inland SAR flight hours in the United States.

3) CAP flies in support of The DEA, The US Customs Service and other Federal Agencies in following with MOU's.

4) CAP members care very deeply about their country and have tried to find a way to serve in spite of the fact that some of the never spent time in the military. I say some, because many of them did spend time in the miltary.

5) CAP members have great respect for what memebers of the armed forces do.

6) I hesitate to bring this up, but every year, a small number of CAP members die during actual SAR operations and other active CAP missions. These CAP members gave their lives in the service of their country every bit as much as the F18 pilots who were recently lost in training did - and the CAP members were unpaid volunteers. Zeke, how dare you belittle either sacrifice.

Zeke, I don't mind you saying anything you want to me. I'll still get out of bed at 2am when the Air Force (yep, that's who calls me) calls and says they need me to put together a team to go find somebody. You're being an a$$. Shut up, sir.

Alternatively, if you insist on going on, I've got an ex Airborne Ranger in my CAP squadron with combat jumps - why don't you come by and say these things to him?

 

[A Squared]

Yeah, there’s some good points about CAP. I was a member way back, but quit in disgust and frustration. There are reasons that "Civil Air Patrol" is often the punch line to a derisive joke.

I joined because I wanted to get involved in the SAR missions. I’d seen a number of occasions when a plane went missing and I’d wished that there was something I could do to assist the effort. CAP seemed like the logical choice, right? I joined the nearest squadron, went to every meeting. At the first opportunity, I took all the required "how to search for downed airplanes" and "don’t molest the cadets" courses. (The courses themselves were a joke, they essentially sat you down in a room and gave you all the answers to the tests) Anyway, I got all of the administrative requirements straightened out, and I had more than enough experience already to meet all of the requirements for any aircraft in the squadron. Ought to be a snap to get checked out in a 172, right? Wrong. I went down the list if authorized instructors. Contacted them in person, introduced myself if I didn’t already know them, and asked about getting checked out in the 172. One by one, as I went down the list, I got the same story, can’t do it, too busy, etc. No "maybe in 2 weeks" , no "I can’t do it, but maybe Joe over there can" And all the while many of them were on the aircraft schedule for "proficiency" flights. Seems they had enough time to go flying themselves......... After I’d gone thorough the entire list of instructors, I finally came to the realization that these guys had no interest in checking out new pilots.

Yeah, the CAP *could* be a good organization, but you can count me among those who hold it in fairly low regard. A few other *highlights* that have contributed to form opinion of CAP:

Seeing members in public (grocery store) in full uniform on days when I knew there was no meeting, or any official activity which would require a uniform.

Sitting in meetings listening to the squadron commander yabber on about how much better, safer, skilled, etc we (CAP) were than the general flying public, the 135 operators, other CAP squadrons, ect. And this from a pilot of rather ordinary abilities and at least one accident in her past.

A friend of mine joined a CAP squadron, he was told that he "would never fly the Beaver". Never mind that this individual probably had more flight experience than any 3 members of that squadron. Never mind that he had thousands of hours of PIC time in radial engined taildraggers like the Beech 18 and C-46 which make the Beaver look like a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**cat. Never mind that he had been flying the Beaver at another CAP squadron. My friend has a higher tolerance for this kind of stupidity than do I, and he is still with CAP. More power to him.

Every year, the local squadron flies one of the Beavers to Oshkosh and back. Supposedly it’s a "public relations" effort, really it’s just a trip to Oshkosh for a few members. The operating costs alone to fly the Beaver from Anchorage to Oskosh and back is probably $7000 to $10,000, to say nothing of per-diem for the vacationers. Never mind that during this 3-4 week vacation the beaver isn’t available for actual SAR missions. Is this really an effective use of the taxpayers’ dollars? Of course this waste pales in comparison to spending in excess of a million dollars to sponsor a race car.

I dunno, perhaps I should have been more persistent, kept my eye on the goal and put up with the idiots. The thing is, there’s a lot of people like me that joined and just left in disgust. Those of you who are still in the CAP and think it’s a worthwhile organization, great, but realize when you encounter a person like zeek that there’s very real reasons that many hold the CAP in contempt. Instead of denying that it’s true, perhaps you could work from within to improve CAP’s image. I’ll give you a hint though, sponsoring a NASCAR team isn’t helping.

DOT_AK,

For what it’s worth, if you’re in Anchorage, I’ve been told that the Elmendorf and Birchwood squadrons are better than the Polaris Squadron at Merrill. My experience was with the Polaris Squadron.