Citationshares

[CL600Pilot]

Part of the problem may be that no one understands your question! I don't! What do you mean by 'airline in'?? If you lived within 90 minutes of your domicile why in the world would you want to airline in anyway??

I don't work for CShares so don't take my word on it but from what I've seen in my career(both corporate and airline) when a company(any company) says that you need to be within 90 minutes of your domicile they mean exactly that - you need to be within 90 minutes of your domicile - they don't care wether you drive, fly, take a cab, or ride a donkey - as long as you can get to your domicile airport withing 90 minutes of notificatiion.

CL

 

[GVFlyer]

Simply put yes it is the fastest Biz jet out there.



.92 out

I'll buy this to a point. The GV currently holds the National Aeronautic Association and the Federation Aeronautique Internationale speed record for New York to Los Angeles. It's a matter of range - the Citation X goes real fast, but does not go real far or real high at the same time.

A while back (August) I took off from Teterboro in a 90,500 pound GV going to Kauai. Immediately behind me, a 750 took off (with TEB minimum IFR separation) going to the left coast. I went initially to 43,000 feet and .87 mach or about 500kts. The GV is red lined at .885 or about 508kts (at -56.7 C.), so for max speed with some margin, I limited max speed to .88 or 505kts so I didn't have to listen to the overspeed cricket.

The 750 initially went to 35,000 and probably to around .90 mach at his weight, although he was reporting .92 to ATC when they asked his mach. The operant thing is that while he was going faster, all the way across the nation he continued to check on frequency about the same 3 minutes behind me that he took off after me, and somewhere around Ore-gun he ran out of fuel and had to land while I continued on another 2400nm to Kauai and landed with 9,000 lbs of fuel. My average trip speed for the 4400nm was .875 or a little over 502 knots.

 

[CitationCapt]

My apologies

CL600,

My apologies for asking a question that you or any other viewer apparently didn't understand, but of course your point on 90 minutes is obvious.

CitationCapt.

 

[gump88]

I'll buy this to a point. The GV currently holds the National Aeronautic Association and the Federation Aeronautique Internationale speed record for New York to Los Angeles. It's a matter of range - the Citation X goes real fast, but does not go real far or real high at the same time.

A while back (August) I took off from Teterboro in a 90,500 pound GV going to Kauai. Immediately behind me, a 750 took off (with TEB minimum IFR separation) going to the left coast. I went initially to 43,000 feet and .87 mach or about 500kts. The GV is red lined at .885 or about 508kts (at -56.7 C.), so for max speed with some margin, I limited max speed to .88 or 505kts so I didn't have to listen to the overspeed cricket.

The 750 initially went to 35,000 and probably to around .90 mach at his weight, although he was reporting .92 to ATC when they asked his mach. The operant thing is that while he was going faster, all the way across the nation he continued to check on frequency about the same 3 minutes behind me that he took off after me, and somewhere around Ore-gun he ran out of fuel and had to land while I continued on another 2400nm to Kauai and landed with 9,000 lbs of fuel. My average trip speed for the 4400nm was .875 or a little over 502 knots.

Hey GV!!!

Why don't you just admit that the CE 750 is FASTER than the freakin GV? We aint talkin about range or max altitude.

The GV is a gorgeous bird but when it comes to just plain speed, the X is the fastest jet, period.

Cheers,
gump

 

[CL600Pilot]

Citation Capt - sorry if I misunderstood your question - I'm not the shrapest ball of Play Dough in the can.

Gump - how many days would it take you to catch a X?? Ya'll ought to hook up a tow rope and let them pull you around the country! You need to come thru LUK soon - I think it's my turn to buy!

CL

 

[gump88]

You darn right, its your turn!!

Citation Capt - sorry if I misunderstood your question - I'm not the shrapest ball of Play Dough in the can.

Gump - how many days would it take you to catch a X?? Ya'll ought to hook up a tow rope and let them pull you around the country! You need to come thru LUK soon - I think it's my turn to buy!

CL

The next time I am in LUK, I will be calling. You better be saving up that beer money!!!!

Cheers,
gump

 

[GVFlyer]

Hey GV!!!

Why don't you just admit that the CE 750 is FASTER than the freakin GV? We aint talkin about range or max altitude.

The GV is a gorgeous bird but when it comes to just plain speed, the X is the fastest jet, period.

Cheers,
gump/QUOTE]



OK, let's race! We could try:

Beijing to Memphis

Sydney to Los Angeles

Buenos Aires to Venice

Washington, DC to Cape Town

New York to Tokyo

or even New York to San Francisco.

Come on, Gumpo, I said I'd buy Xrated750's contention that the Citation X was the fastest biz jet up to a point. It's up to 17 knots faster than the GV for a short distance down low. The GV is faster at altitude which can make a difference going west because most of the time the headwinds are many times that 17 knots in the 30's and low 40's and are significantly less up high.

The GV is a blast to fly. It has the control harmony of a fighter, a quick roll rate and is a powerful beast. The 48 inch fans move a lot of air so it accelerates quickly. It's very satisfying to hand fly to 51,000 feet. With it's 93'6" wide chord, low wing-loading wing the GV's high altitude performance is stellar. If you don't have any passengers to make sick, it's a real joy to fly 45 degree bank turns at FL510. During last winter's horendous winds, it was very nice to be doing .84 at 49,000 feet at the cruise power setting where there were virtually no winds. The GVSP, due out first quarter '04, is going to be better: same weight, less drag, 6% more power.

The 750's speed comes at a high price. The direct operating cost is $1336.17 an hour for the 35,700 pound Citation. You can move the 45 ton GV around for $1470.77 an hour.

The GV has flown much faster than the Citation X. In test, the GV went out to 1.07 mach as verified by on board engineering workstations manned by really scared flight test engineers and real time telemetry to the Gulfstream
Test Operations Center.

I know, I sound like I should be selling these things, but I just like flying the jet so much that I just volunteered for an additional flight this week.

Cheers -











.

 

[NJA Capt]

GV,
It is VERY obvious you enjoy the GV. You do, however, sound like you are trying to sell us one. We know it has the range, we know it is fast. By your example though, the GV is faster than an F15 at mach 2, just because it can't fly to Beijing non-stop. Well, the space shuttle can lap the planet in around 1 hour with the engines OFF. Now, I know you can't claim the GV can top that.

Please stop touting the strong attributes of the GV over the CX. We know. They aren't even in the same class. The posts above were stating that the Mmo on the CX IS THE FASTEST. Period. The GV is a marathon runner, the CX is a sprinter. That's what is was made for. The CX is CERTIFIED for .92, the GV IS NOT! Don't compare apples to oranges, by saying "the X can't do this, the X can't do that," because it can't fly 6000+ miles. The GV cannot operate at .92, a CX can.

PS...Cessna claims the CX went supersonic in flight tests too.

Best wishes,
NJA Capt

 

[Dep676]

This is a pretty good cat fight going on here.

Sounds like my is bigger than yours argument.

 

[GVFlyer]

GV,
It is VERY obvious you enjoy the GV. You do, however, sound like you are trying to sell us one. We know it has the range, we know it is fast. By your example though, the GV is faster than an F15 at mach 2, just because it can't fly to Beijing non-stop.

You are, of course, right, but let me tell you about a little game we played out in W157A with the F-18's from MCAS Beaufort during GV development. The 340 knot Vmo is there to give you a 20 year airframe life and bird strike protection, the jet will go much faster. In the test articles we would pull a turn in front of the F-18's going 430-440 indicated in the low 20's or high teens and head East. They would squawk about us to Sealord, but they wouldn't come after us because to catch us they would have to light the burner and if they lit the burner a hundred miles out to sea heading East, they weren't going to make it back to Beaufort.

Well, the space shuttle can lap the planet in around 1 hour with the engines OFF. Now, I know you can't claim the GV can top that.

No, but we have better engines and a more modern cockpit.....Relax, I'm just kidding you.

Please stop touting the strong attributes of the GV over the CX. We know. They aren't even in the same class. The posts above were stating that the Mmo on the CX IS THE FASTEST. Period. The GV is a marathon runner, the CX is a sprinter. That's what is was made for. The CX is CERTIFIED for .92, the GV IS NOT! Don't compare apples to oranges, by saying "the X can't do this, the X can't do that," because it can't fly 6000+ miles. The GV cannot operate at .92, a CX can.

Getting pretty testy there with all the shouting and demands, take a Pamprin and try to calm down. Gulfstream advertises the GV as the fastest business jet beyond 2200nm. Again, I acknowledged in both my previous posts that the C-750 was quicker.

PS...Cessna claims the CX went supersonic in flight tests too.

I hadn't heard this. I know a guy in Cessna Flight Test pretty well, he's a past officer in SETP, I'll ask him the details. Although he's on the Sovereign project right now he did work on the X. He knows the details of the GV's Supersonic escapade, we talked about it as a case in point as to why supersonic airplanes have all moving tails.

Regards,

GV










.

 

[Safetycheck]

Take a Pamprin...I love it! HAHA

Take a Pamprin and get over it...that is good advice to many posters on this board. BUnch of mamby pambies over here.

Anyway...

Does all of this GV talk on the Citationshares board suggest that perhaps Citationshares will be getting into a Gulfstream shares concept?

Hmm....

 

[Xrated750]

Get out your check book

Great back and forth here people. Yes the C-X is faster but the GV gives it a run for the money, because at $43.2 million (the SP will another 2.3 mil) compared to $19 million. I could buy 2 C-X's and have enough left over to get a third small jet like a Bravo. Or maybe I would just buy a little over 50 Eclipse 500's and start my own business instead.

The C-X's was so fast they limited the engine thrust, but the newer models coming out now will have increased power and performance. Also I believe that GV sucks a lot more fuel than the C-X at altitude, as for climb well I believe they both average around 18 min to fl370. Any way as far as ground speed goes no problem getting the X other mach 1. And if you want that real long range you are going to have to slow that thing down anyway, same as everybody. Keepem comin.

.92 out

 

[Snakum]

Supersonic in the X ...

I caught a Discovery Channel special on business jets in which they rode along on a test flight in a new CX. The test pilot, when talking about how they explore the envelope for each one off the line, said "these jets will go supersonic" ... they've obviously done so in testing. But I'll bet others have as well. I would imagine you'd wanna bump the speed envelope pretty good when certifying a new design to ensure it isn't gonna instantly fall apart or become uncontrolable and unrecoverable when someone inadvertantly hits mach 1.

Hey ... didn't someone take a 72 supersonic in a dive following an uncommanded slat deployment? Clean underwear time fer sure ...

Minh

 

[GVFlyer]

Re: Get out your check book

Yes the C-X is faster but the GV gives it a run for the money, because at $43.2 million (the SP will another 2.3 mil) compared to $19 million. I could buy 2 C-X's and have enough left over to get a third small jet like a Bravo.

You're right, but the GV is less expensive than the C-X by the pound.

The C-X's was so fast they limited the engine thrust, but the newer models coming out now will have increased power and performance.

Everybody does this, it's where those 8,000 hour TBO's come from on the Rolls. The BR710/715 Rolls family will produce over 22,000 lbs of thrust; Gulfstream rates the engine at 14,750 lbs on the GV and 15,385 lbs on the GVSP.

Any modern swept-wing jet has enough thrust to accelerate right into mach effects in the 30's.

Also I believe that GV sucks a lot more fuel than the C-X at altitude...

Right again, the GV costs 10% more an hour to operate, but keep in mind that it weighs over 140% more.

...as for climb well I believe they both average around 18 min to fl370.

This looks like the numbers estimated by "Business and Commercial Aviation." They appear to be about right for a GV taking off at maximum gross weight (90,500 ) on a standard day. Consider this, however, the GV can carry 41,300 lbs of fuel, but only needs 16,000 to make it from LAX to IAD with reserves. My standard ramp load is 14,000 lbs of fuel, so most days, with 8 pax, my all-up weight is less than 64,000 lbs and climb performance is pretty spectacular. ATC has to call us to ask the altitude passing because the computer can't keep up.

And if you want that real long range you are going to have to slow that thing down anyway, same as everybody. Keepem comin.

You're on a roll, right again. Ranges for the GVSP are as follows:

High Speed Cruise: .87 mach - 5000 nm

Normal Cruise: .85 mach - 6000 nm

Long Range Cruise: .80 mach - 6750 nm


Always a pleasure,

GV









.

 

[Safetycheck]

Go Get 'em GV

I love it. You 750 drivers might as well "give it up!"

Go get 'em GV.