commuterguy
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CitationShares laying off another 40 pilots
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highnpressurizd
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At this point the thread starter is somewhat full of it. We did receive word that if conditions did not improve in the coming weeks we would see a reduction in staff (not just pilots). No confirmation of furloughs yet, and certainly no numbers. Possible - Yes. Probable - more so than I'd like to admit. However, until it happens, please refrain from making statements as if they were factual.
B19 Flyer
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It's the fear mongering.
He states it's a bad time to be a pilot.
In reality, it's simply a great time if you are employed regardless of what you do for a living or the career choices you've made.
Amen to that!
commuterguy
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I'll rephrase it for you Mr. Jetblue, since you're right. It is a bad time for ME to be a pilot, since I will most likely be out of a job here shortly, because of the dumb choice I made leaving a regional for a "secure" fractional job. I'm sure no Southwest captain is boohooing about it being a bad time to be a pilot. I stand corrected.
If things "imporve" in the next few weeks???? Please.......
If things "imporve" in the next few weeks???? Please.......
I feel your pain.. I think about that 'choice' i made to go to the fracs also, but it's simply a timing issue. Life is much better here, BUT, it would be better there with a job, then at a frac without one..
And he said 6-10% which would be somewhere in the 20-38 range.
It's not fear mongering you idiot. Our CEO didn't do much to quell the fear. The guy may be at the bottom of the list. How the F woud you take it if it were you.
CS guys guys don't bother with you so piss off and go back to your own thread and leave us alone.
B19 Flyer
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Actually, I get many PMs from CS guys that support my views. It's probably because they understand the points I make because they are non-union and want no part of your turmoil.
BeeDubya
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If I correctly understand the points above, ominbnd is at a non-Union carrier.
I will agree with you, that considering the state of our economy, anyone who is currently employed is lucky. My heart goes out to all who have been furloughed, laid off, or whose company's have failed. These are tough times.
Brian
Well, I'll go on record and say that I agree with many of your points, not all, but many. As far as handling stupid arguments, you're the master. But who cares? PM's of support you get have nothing whatever to do with this thread.
And your injection of union into it is precisely my point. With you come all the issues. YOU brought up the union. The originator of this thread didn't even hint at it. Then what happens is all your buddies from the other threads hijack it into a union/non-union "friendly" discussion.
This thread was started to open a discussion about layoffs at CS. I take that implication from the title of the thread.
You called one of our buddies a fear mongerer. OK, you didn't use the words "he is a", but clearly that was the implication. We had what I would have called a "hightened concern" about more furloughs before our CEO had the town hall conference call. Not until he SAID there would be further downsizing if things didn't improve (with no mention of what the marker of improvement was to be) was the fear instilled. Again, if one is at the bottom of the list, how are the remarks to be taken? If you're seeking "turmoil" it wasn't there until our CEO's remarks.
I think most guys understand that furloughs are a sad side-effect within our industry. That doesn't make it any easier. So how about just writing that you wish all furloughees from all companies the best, and hope that the economy turns very soon enabling recall of those furloughees.
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commuterguy
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I think its still "smoke" at this point. A friend of mine told me 6 to 10 percent if things dont improve.
I for one truly hope it dosent happen. Its no fun being laid off and trying to take care of your family.
On a brighter note I read recently that flying in January is starting to pick up. Though one month dosent make a trend, mabye theres light at the end of this long tunner.
Just hope its not the oncoming train
I for one truly hope it dosent happen. Its no fun being laid off and trying to take care of your family.
On a brighter note I read recently that flying in January is starting to pick up. Though one month dosent make a trend, mabye theres light at the end of this long tunner.
Just hope its not the oncoming train
Also...
I think its time that management and pilots starting working closer together to save jobs. From postings I have read NetJets Union and management have come up with many money saving ideas to save jobs and prevent furloughs.
Perhaps one idea at CitationShares (and please dont flame me for this) is for all pilots AND MANGEMENT to take a 5 percent pay cut. If you multiply that over 300 some pilots plus management staff you might be able to save more than a few jobs. Certainly buyouts are a nice idea, but its better to keep guys working earning (a little less) then have guys totally out of work. It would be the ultimate expression of teamwork in tough times.
I would rather work for a bit less than have my buddies out on the street, especially these days.
Of course this isnt the only idea, just a trail balloon to get things rolling. Obviously other ideas could be presented, but this would have an immediate effect.
Its time we all work together rather than sitting here flaming each other.
PILOTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN!
I think its time that management and pilots starting working closer together to save jobs. From postings I have read NetJets Union and management have come up with many money saving ideas to save jobs and prevent furloughs.
Perhaps one idea at CitationShares (and please dont flame me for this) is for all pilots AND MANGEMENT to take a 5 percent pay cut. If you multiply that over 300 some pilots plus management staff you might be able to save more than a few jobs. Certainly buyouts are a nice idea, but its better to keep guys working earning (a little less) then have guys totally out of work. It would be the ultimate expression of teamwork in tough times.
I would rather work for a bit less than have my buddies out on the street, especially these days.
Of course this isnt the only idea, just a trail balloon to get things rolling. Obviously other ideas could be presented, but this would have an immediate effect.
Its time we all work together rather than sitting here flaming each other.
PILOTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN!
brokeflyer
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Why can't no furloughs in exchange for pay concessions be a contractual thing, i.e. an updated IBB? I'm sure the bottom 800 or so pilots might be interested versus trying to find a pilot job in this economy.
brokeflyer
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probly because that money you give back will never been seen again. It will set in motion cut after cut after cut after cut.
And I very highly doubt the company would ever agree to such outrageous terms. Taking a pay cut has nothing to do with this. The company would not have the control over the staffing. If you have too many pilots, a pay cut won't fix anything.
Then when times are good you're having to give up more stuff to get the money back that you already had. Furloughs suck, but consessions never work either. 800 is pretty high, I would guess were about 200 pilots heavy. But were always 500+ heavy in the summer anyway.
And I very highly doubt the company would ever agree to such outrageous terms. Taking a pay cut has nothing to do with this. The company would not have the control over the staffing. If you have too many pilots, a pay cut won't fix anything.
Then when times are good you're having to give up more stuff to get the money back that you already had. Furloughs suck, but consessions never work either. 800 is pretty high, I would guess were about 200 pilots heavy. But were always 500+ heavy in the summer anyway.
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Unfortunately, The President shares your view, and is eroding the very system that has produced more for hundreds of millions, simultaneously, than any other civilization.
If this idea worked so well we'd all be on little boats floating toward Cuba.
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...and yet the airlines have done EXACTLY that. They have asked for wage concessions for years. I will grant you they have union representation and contracts so the negotiations are a little different..but what I am proposing is not new at all.
The other thing is that all members share the "pain" management and pilots. NOT just the pilots. Its not communism here. Its business...plain and simple, just like the airlines. Its also NOT SOCIALISM to take care of your fellow pilot that might be sitting next to you..remember him or her?
Certainly, some sort of guaruntee can be built in to recoup those wages. Those that share in the pain should also share in the success.
PILOTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN!
The other thing is that all members share the "pain" management and pilots. NOT just the pilots. Its not communism here. Its business...plain and simple, just like the airlines. Its also NOT SOCIALISM to take care of your fellow pilot that might be sitting next to you..remember him or her?
Certainly, some sort of guaruntee can be built in to recoup those wages. Those that share in the pain should also share in the success.
PILOTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN!
glasspilot
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Why do you "Bushies" always drag politics into these discussions? The guy is nervous and trying to think outside the box. Fine. People answered why his idea wouldn't work the way he thinks it might. Fine.
Then you come in, way off the reservation, with your right wing, hate the Clintons, I hope Obama fails, crap. BUSH IS THE REASON WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. DON'T EVER FORGET THAT!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!
Well Im not nervous since Im already unemployed 
. I am only nervous about keeping my house.
I am not looking at this as a political discussion and am certainly open to new ideas. It is my hope that the management and pilots and CS are doing the same thing. All ideas should be welcomed and debated. I agree that thousands of pilots have lost their jobs in the airlines, but much of that had to do with their business model which was unworkable and unprofitable.
I will grant you that more business is what EVERYONE needs. I think the problem is that there are so few people to sell too. Look at the price wars going on now. You are marketing to a currently shrinking clientel. The market was already saturated, so its just survival of the fittest now. Keep selling by all means, but we NEED new ideas in this new world!
. I am only nervous about keeping my house.I am not looking at this as a political discussion and am certainly open to new ideas. It is my hope that the management and pilots and CS are doing the same thing. All ideas should be welcomed and debated. I agree that thousands of pilots have lost their jobs in the airlines, but much of that had to do with their business model which was unworkable and unprofitable.
I will grant you that more business is what EVERYONE needs. I think the problem is that there are so few people to sell too. Look at the price wars going on now. You are marketing to a currently shrinking clientel. The market was already saturated, so its just survival of the fittest now. Keep selling by all means, but we NEED new ideas in this new world!
I made no mention of a political position, just stated a basic fact of human nature.
You're a freaking tool. The sub prime mortgage mess began with the Clinton admin. Bush didn't help things either but you need to realize where this all started: democrats thinking everyone should be entitled to a home. Free handouts for the poor! Yay! It's the democratic way!
End of political portion of this thread. Carry on.
brokeflyer
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