CitationAir

[FLYLOW22]

"Cannot duplicate" is proof that the pilot was wrong and therefore is not qualified to make an airworthyness determination."

Airworthyness?

Is that like Truthiness?

 

[RCR5]

It must have been his kid. Anyone with that kind of ignorance and blatant slander cannot be a grown man. Who is now silent and smack talk lacking. Based in Chicago and on the XL by the way. Oh, and ex-military. The recall list is short rcr5.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Absolutely CLASSIC.....sorry, keep fishing. You have wrong information.

Times change, so do lives. Keep casting.

I would make it easy for you and just meet you if you like? Let me know.

 

[B19 Flyer]

you need to read the regulations there b....

The CAPTAIN has the final authority......blah blah.

So, when I say something isnt working, I just determined if it was airworthy or not. And that comes from the regulations. I didnt write them, I just do what they say. And if mx says "unable to duplicate"? that means they didnt fix what was broken....and it needs written up AGAIN until the item is repaired. If its broken then its broken....It dont matter what the mechanic writes, he can say its airworthy all day long but it dont mean the airplane will fly. The pilot determines if its airworthy. I know that cuts into your profit but that isnt our department. Maybe you should take a pay cut or something to make it work.



Most of the time spent by the flight crew is making sure management isnt trying to skirt the regs to get a revenue trip done.

You have a lot to learn about the operational side of aviation. You have the management side down real good.....safety is your number one concern, as long as it dont cost anything..

you're a very unsafe manager. I hope you retire or get arrested before you kill a lot of people.

Broke, to begin with, I've forgotten more in the past five minutes about the operations side of aviation and safety than you've experienced throughout your entire career as a pilot so I'm going to pick on you today because... well, just because.

I’ve had the pleasure of keeping pilots safe and from hurting themselves and others for a very long time now. I’m sure you’re perfect Broke, but that doesn’t mean all pilots are. It only takes one mistake to change the industry, and every pilot flying a commercial airplane today is one error away.

This is the dirty side of aviation that both you and your cronies will never admit to, that being there is somebody there with oversight to try and think of all the things that can go wrong on a flight by flight basis. That extends well beyond that of a pilot on any given flight.

Before that pilot is signed off to fly, somebody has to think of not only how that pilot is trained, but where the mistakes are most likely to happen, who can contribute to those mistakes and how to avoid them before they happen.

You think pilots come up with this stuff? Yeah, right. As I stated in my earlier post about what makes a good pilot, it’s the entire picture broke, not just your exalted view from the flight deck. Somebody has to understand what is happening operationally to make sure that the entire picture fits together. The new official term for this is SMS, but it’s been in the industry ever since I can remember, and let me tell you.. pilots are not the people you want involved in developing that type of program. They have a single view, and it’s not always that which is best for the entire picture.

As I’ve stated before, if something isn’t working to what a pilot perceives it should be, it’s up to the mechanic to determine what’s wrong and fix it. If a pilot continues to perceive the same issue from airplane to airplane as I’ve seen so many times over the years, it’s a pilot issue, not an airplane issue. That’s why pilots are retrained, because no matter how much people like me try to use a crystal ball to anticipate the next issue, we seem to always be one step behind the next stupid pilot trick.

The mechanic has the final say on the airworthiness of the airplane. Period. He doesn’t sign, you don’t go.

You have the privilege of the write up. It is their signature, not the pilots however, that gives you an airworthy airplane.

 

[tailwindz]

I just vomited a little in my mouth.

B19, whomever you are you would not last one day in my world.

I have NEVER seem a mechanic rotate at Vr.

 

[CA1900]

I have, on the other hand, seen a mechanic "troubleshoot" an electrical fault by holding the breaker in until it started smoking again.

The plane doesn't move until the mechanic and the pilot sign off that it's airworthy. The pilot most certainly does have the final say.

 

[imacdog]

You have the privilege of the write up. It is their signature, not the pilots however, that gives you an airworthy airplane.

I think you've proven here that you really have forgotten much about aviation. Might want to quit before you lose all your memory. The plane doesn't fly until the PIC signs the release.

 

[brokeflyer]

Broke, to begin with, I've forgotten more in the past five minutes about the operations side of aviation and safety than you've experienced throughout your entire career as a pilot so I'm going to pick on you today because... well, just because.

I’ve had the pleasure of keeping pilots safe and from hurting themselves and others for a very long time now. I’m sure you’re perfect Broke, but that doesn’t mean all pilots are. It only takes one mistake to change the industry, and every pilot flying a commercial airplane today is one error away.

This is the dirty side of aviation that both you and your cronies will never admit to, that being there is somebody there with oversight to try and think of all the things that can go wrong on a flight by flight basis. That extends well beyond that of a pilot on any given flight.

Before that pilot is signed off to fly, somebody has to think of not only how that pilot is trained, but where the mistakes are most likely to happen, who can contribute to those mistakes and how to avoid them before they happen.

You think pilots come up with this stuff? Yeah, right. As I stated in my earlier post about what makes a good pilot, it’s the entire picture broke, not just your exalted view from the flight deck. Somebody has to understand what is happening operationally to make sure that the entire picture fits together. The new official term for this is SMS, but it’s been in the industry ever since I can remember, and let me tell you.. pilots are not the people you want involved in developing that type of program. They have a single view, and it’s not always that which is best for the entire picture.

As I’ve stated before, if something isn’t working to what a pilot perceives it should be, it’s up to the mechanic to determine what’s wrong and fix it. If a pilot continues to perceive the same issue from airplane to airplane as I’ve seen so many times over the years, it’s a pilot issue, not an airplane issue. That’s why pilots are retrained, because no matter how much people like me try to use a crystal ball to anticipate the next issue, we seem to always be one step behind the next stupid pilot trick.

The mechanic has the final say on the airworthiness of the airplane. Period. He doesn’t sign, you don’t go.

You have the privilege of the write up. It is their signature, not the pilots however, that gives you an airworthy airplane.

yeah, i always pick on the people i know are right too. You're obviously "forgetting" all the important stuff, maybe you shouldnt post anymore, it just makes you look ignorant.

Pick all you want though, i've worn down managers a lot smarter than you think you are, when you were still in grade school kid. Im retired now and I earned the right.

My first type rating was in a DC6, any questions kid?


Your apology is accepted though.

 

[wacoflyr]

The mechanic has the final say on the airworthiness of the airplane. Period.

FAR 91.3 (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.


FAR 91.7 (b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

Well, that was easy to look up. I know which one prints my license.

 

[UAL-GSO]

You guys may as well talk to a wall - he's a lost cause. Just be thankful he's not in an airplane where he could hurt someone.

 

[dime line]

FAR 91.3 (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.


FAR 91.7 (b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

Well, that was easy to look up. I know which one prints my license.

DA19 isn't required to know how to read. Hows the union drive going right down from your office in Clearwater?

 

[B19 Flyer]

FAR 91.3 (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.


FAR 91.7 (b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

Well, that was easy to look up. I know which one prints my license.

Can you go without that mechanics sign off in the logbook?

Simple question.

 

[B19 Flyer]

yeah, i always pick on the people i know are right too. You're obviously "forgetting" all the important stuff, maybe you shouldnt post anymore, it just makes you look ignorant.

Pick all you want though, i've worn down managers a lot smarter than you think you are, when you were still in grade school kid. Im retired now and I earned the right.

My first type rating was in a DC6, any questions kid?


Your apology is accepted though.

No apology. We both know that your highly unionized former employer no longer exists and was absorbed by a much smarter non unionized work force. Your way of doing business is over, you're lucky they stepped in so you have a pension. Just because you've been around a few years longer doesn't mean you have a better understanding of how things are done today. The last 5 years have produced more change than the last 20, all of it for the better, albiet not as much fun.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You guys may as well talk to a wall - he's a lost cause. Just be thankful he's not in an airplane where he could hurt someone.

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public. You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

 

[wacoflyr]

Hows the union drive going right down from your office in Clearwater?

I get assigned an office every other week, and I ride it all over North America. It seldom gets to Clearwater. I don't know how the union drive is going.

 

[XTW]

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public. You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

Excuse me while I genuflect.uke:


X

 

[wacoflyr]

Can you go without that mechanics sign off in the logbook?

Simple question.

Look B19, we all see the point that you are trying to make. Yes, mechanics are important. No one here believes otherwise. No, we can't launch without the mechanics signature. Simple answer. But the correct answer which you argued against, is that the pilot in command is the final authority for the flight, and is responsible for the airworthiness of the aircraft. The FAR's state this, the point is irrefutable, and when you argue against this your other points, which are sometimes accurate, get lost in the glare of your mistake.

But you refuse to see this, because you seem to be blinded by what looks like anger toward all of us pilots. Who are you to accuse us of a "holier than thou" attitude? I mean, come on. I, for one, don't appreciate your condescending attitude toward us. This sort of problem is what drives a wedge between management and pilots.

You say we don't have the big picture? That's probably true. But we are where the rubber meets the road. We go face to face with the owners who pay your salary. And you don't have a clue how pilots sometimes save the company big headaches by smoothing waters that others have made rough. Yup, sometimes we fix mistakes made by management. We calm anger caused by what are sometimes completely preventable mistakes. We find economies in fuel pricing, hotel reservation, and occasionally even scheduling that save our companies big, big bucks. Money that management left on the table. We see plenty of other waste that we can't save, that we can only shake our heads at. And then we navigate an ever more complicated airspace through nearly all weather to deliver very precious families to fun airports like Eagle, Ocean Reef, and Monteray.

But we are capable of much more. You would be surprised by what you find in the cockpits these days. There are some tools, but most pilots I talk to have extensive experience outside of aviation, doing amazing things. It is a waste to underestimate people.

If you really work for a company that employs pilots, you would be doing yourself a favor to see them as a far greater resource than just performing the very complicated job that they already do. Instead of relegating pilots as functionaries to be backed into a corner with GOM's and FAR's, you should enable them to find solutions for some of the bigger problems that you face. They would surprise you. Your company would benefit, and you could stop preaching to us here, and we could all move along, exchanging useful info like adults.


Wacoflyr

 

[rigger]

What happened to the "new" and nice B19? That did not last long....

 

[gunfyter]

Can you go without that mechanics sign off in the logbook?

Simple question.

How about that M. E. L. ? with maintenance action approved to be performed by a flight crew....

 

[wacoflyr]

How about that M. E. L. ? with maintenance action approved to be performed by a flight crew....

That's right. I forgot about that. Hey B19? This is one way to admit that one has made a mistake. It is necessary for a flight crew member to have this capacity, so that he or she can learn. If we don't learn from mistakes, we could face disaster on a very human scale. But to learn from a mistake, one must first admit that one has made a mistake.

 

[Pervis]

Don't waste your time. Didn't you know that if B19 were around long ago, he would have saved Icarus from his fate?